Changing text frames changes font size, publisher 1.8.4

[Angalanse]

Hi, when I'm changing the text frame, the font size also changes which makes it difficult to get any work done. See attached snippet.

[walt.farrell]

It's difficult to see what you did, but make sure you use use this handle:

and not this one (which scales the frame and its content):

[Angalanse]

Thanks for the reply, but is it difficult to see? The upper frame is linked to the lower frame. When I change the size of the upper frame (using the correct handle), the text flows into the lower frame, and for some reason changes size from 12 pts to 13.7.

 

If I had used the incorrect handle on the upper frame, I assume that would have resulted in the change of font size in that frame, not the lower one.

[walt.farrell]

33 minutes ago, Angalanse said:

If I had used the incorrect handle on the upper frame, I assume that would have resulted in the change of font size in that frame, not the lower one.

Not necessarily. If you ended up with rescaled text in the upper frame then you might not notice it until you added the linked frame, which would have the smaller (original) text size.

The safest recovery method, if this is what's going on, is to select and copy all the text, delete the text frames, and create new ones with the right font size.

[Angalanse]

Thanks again for the reply. I agree that copying and pasting the text is a workaround, but it is still a bug that could become a major hassle when working on longer documents, and which should be addressed. For instance, if I were to work on a book, I would not want to deal with unexpected font size changes when changing the size of text frames.

[walt.farrell]

36 minutes ago, Angalanse said:

but it is still a bug

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree. No one has shown, so far, that there is a bug, except (I think) with one scenario of importing an IDML file. Except for that one scenario, it appears that the problem is most likly due to the user using the wrong handle to scale the text frame. And if so, that's not a bug but a user error.

If you can reproduce this in a new document, making sure not to use the scaling handle, and record the actions you took, then Serif might be able to investigate the behavior as a bug. They would need to have a scenario with a known set of steps, without using the scaling handle, that will reproduce the situation.

(Also, please understand that I am not saying that you used the scaling handle. I am only saying that that is the usual cause, we believe, but I cannot tell for sure from your video what happened.)

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

I cannot tell for sure from your video what happened

The video shows (quite clearly, IMO) that the bottom centre handle of the upper frame is dragged upwards to reduce the height of that frame, causing some of the text to flow into the linked frame, and the displaced text becomes enlarged. Edit: Having said that, please see @prophet’s reply!

[prophet]

22 minutes ago, Alfred said:

The video shows (quite clearly, IMO) that the bottom centre handle of the upper frame is dragged upwards to reduce the height of that frame, causing some of the text to flow into the linked frame, and the displaced text becomes enlarged.

Yes, but we don't know what happened before the actions shown in the video. @walt.farrell makes the astute observation that if one of the frame was scaled with the outer handle at some point prior, that could be the cause this known quirk.

[Angalanse]

Hey Walt, let me help you a bit:

"Dear Angalanse, thank you for notifying us of this odd behavior. We are thankful, as always, for the active community members and bug-hunters, who are integral to the development of the Affinity suite. Would you mind walking through the steps that resulted in this odd behavior, knowing fully well that it will take some of your precious time that you surely rather would devote to work or taking care of the kids. Even if the deviating behavior is unique, it will give us important information for ironing out bugs and developing Publisher further."

Why thank you Walt, I will try:

I am working on a document with text that I pasted from Word. Changing the font size to 12 ->13.7 is not the only odd behavior. Given your nice reply, I have opened up the document on another computer, and I can now show you similar behavior in another part of the document.

[walt.farrell]

Thanks. (By the way, I agree that your suggested response is a good one. It's not one I would use, as I'm just a user like yourself, and the way you have it worded is more appropriate for one of the Serif staff. But it's a good answer. As you seem relatively new here, and may not have figured it out yet, Serif staff are all identified as Moderators in red below their pictures if your browser window is wide enough. Or, for narrower windows their usernames will be in red.)

I'm glad you were able to recreate the problem. As it resulted from pasting from a Word document I think it's likely that it's the same bug that has been reported with importing IDML files (that I mentioned above). But I don't recall seeing this reported when working with Word before, so that's good information to have. It may help explain other reports.

If Serif hasn't already identified the problem from the IDML reports, they may want a copy of your Word document, and they can provide a private upload link if you'd prefer not to make the document public. Bug reports are (from what I've seen) generally handled by Serif roughly in the order posted, so it can sometimes take awhile before a moderator can respond. But you've provided good information for them when they do get here.

[Gabe]

Hi all,

@Angalanse, we still don't have a start to finish workflow, but only fragments of it. I can replicate what you have in your last video by simply resizing the text frame, fact already covered by Walt. 

[Angalanse]

Gabe, I'm not really following you. I mean it's great that you can replicate it, and great that Walt was able to point out the source of the problem, but it still is a problem, right?

[Gabe]

Nope, it's not a bug. You scaled the text frame, so the text will come in scaled.

[prophet]

2 hours ago, Gabe said:

Nope, it's not a bug.

Not an official bug, but according to several other threads, a mechanism that causes confusion and is being looked at by developers as something that might need to be retooled, yes?

[Gabe]

It's been logged as an improvement, yes  

[Angalanse]

I really don't get the antagonistic tone in the official and semi-official replies here. I post these issues as I am (was?) enthusiastic about the Affinity suite and wanted to help improve what I considered as problems that hampered my work-flow. Yet I'm met with a form of gaslighting -- it's not a problem, and if it is, it is your fault.

 

Let me ask you: what kind of issues *do* you want raised in this forum?

[Blende21]

Just for my understanding: Where does the font and size setting come from ? From the paragraph style applied ? Is the text style contained in this paragraph Style ? Or does it carry over when copying from Word ?

What happens if you apply a text style before resizing the frame ?

[thadeusz]

I have to say, that I stumbled over this bug in the same way just today. @serif - please fix this. It's clearly a bug.
Also, I have to say that the response here in this thread is not very helpful, as pointed out correctly by Angalanse. His first film shows the problem quite clearly and I don't get why there is this kind of reactions.

Unfortunately there are a huge mass of bugs and small unfixed problems in Publisher. As much as I myselft still try to switch, I stopped recommending Publisher as a professional  layout programm. And I guess, this stage will last for a while, as there are too many things just half-backed and not much progress in this area.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, thadeusz said:

Also, I have to say that the response here in this thread is not very helpful, as pointed out correctly by Angalanse. His first film shows the problem quite clearly and I don't get why there is this kind of reactions.

Because it is not viewed (by Serif, or many of the users) as a bug. So far, it appears to be a user error in using the scaling handle to resize a text frame rather than using one of the resizing handled.

I believe that the "improvement" that has been logged is to:

1. Improve the UI so you can see when this has been done (that is, provide some indication that scaling has occurred, and how much); and possibly
2. Allow the scaling to be reset, without having to recreate the text frame(s).

But the current behavior when a text frame has been scaled is the intended behavior, by design, I think.

[thadeusz]

Please have a look at the first film again. This simply is a bug, as there is no rescaling involved. The resized text is in the other, overflowing textframe. This is clearly not a behavior which you would like to see.

But as I pointed out before - the whole program has these strange things going on everywhere. It hurts every time you want to do something specific and detailed. And giving precise feedback doesn't help, it's just written somewhere between thousands of other little things not getting fixed. Sorry, I'm really frustrated, as I was working with Publisher for the last two days...

[walt.farrell]

12 minutes ago, thadeusz said:

Please have a look at the first film again. This simply is a bug, as there is no rescaling involved.

That video does not show enough information. It needs to start with a new document, or at least a document where none of the Text Frames that are involved exist yet. The scaling could have happened earlier, while the text frames were first being drawn and before the text was entered into them.

In order to prove it's a bug, Serif needs evidence that the scaling handles were never used, and a recipe (set of instructions) that can duplicate it, along with all fies that are involved.

Until someone can provide that evidence, "user used the scaling handles" is the simplest and therefore the most likely answer, and it won't be considered a bug.

(Note: if the .afpub file were provided, I think that the Serif Developers could examine it and say, with certainty, whether the scaling handles were ever used. They have access to information that is not exposed in the User Interface, if they have the file in hand.)

[thadeusz]

But why are only the the first three lines scaled up? I understand, what you want to say. Helping would be a status information actual showing the scaling of a text box. Which is not there.
Also, is it really useful to scale text in a connected text box? But hey, you could make a great lens effect in your book. All text on page 12 is resized for people with limited vision..

[Hilltop]

What I see happening in this thread seems to be a reflection of two different kinds of user experience with Publisher. There are the users who are really versed in its workings and then there are those who are relatively new to the app or who are not yet fully familiar with its workings (quirks & features). I belong to the second group and feel at times frustrated as well because learning to master the app is often not a very intuitive process. I find the UI rather sparse and too much layered, and hints and feedback on operations are hardly provided. 

Despite the fact that the app feels very solid and well thought out, I find it a bit too 'dense' to easily explore and get to know it. This also applies to Photo and Designer, which I also own. 

Let me also state here that I appreciate @walt.farrell enormously for his professional -- i.e., knowledgeable, patient and evenhanded -- and voluntary support, as well as Affinity staff's responsiveness. 

[thadeusz]

What you point out with the UI and how things work is exactly how I feel about it. I'm a more from the professional side of things, working for many years in all the programs which came before Publisher (Indesign, QuarkXpress et cetera) and I wished, serif would have chosen a way of redifining the UI for the better. As it is, it's more of a dumped down version of Indesign. A good example would have been something like Final Cut Pro X, where you can easily start as a beginner without knowing too much, but also use it as your main professional tool. The idea there is to hide complex details from the basic functions, but still have them around, if needed, and have them accessible in a very fast way. But maybe I'm going a bit off-topic here..

[Hilltop]

Yes, perhaps we're getting a bit off-topic but I agree with what you're saying.