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Nazario

Cant get my head round Document Resize?!

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Prior to 1.7 it always 'worked' but very limited and poorly designed: features/functions we needed were missing, now in v. 1.7 it has taken a turn for the worse.

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15 minutes ago, Nazario said:

I mean prior to 1.0 release!

I am not sure what you mean by that. In general, 1.0 is the first public release & anything older than that is a private alpha or beta version not available to the public. The first public release also may include a third number (like 1.4.1 or 1.4.3) indicating there were earlier versions that may or may not have been released to the pubic.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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I have applied in "future "suggestions for affinity photo that they completely redesign "Resize Document".
It's a pity more people didn't complain from the outset (whenever it was exactly).
I think we should be united and insistent. 

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16 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I am not sure what you mean by that. In general, 1.0 is the first public release & anything older than that is a private alpha or beta version not available to the public. The first public release also may include a third number (like 1.4.1 or 1.4.3) indicating there were earlier versions that may or may not have been released to the pubic.

I can't remember the number versions so I'm probably wrong on 'prior to 1.0'. What i meant was i was part of the public beta's for all the apps prior to release and even before Photo was officially released as non beta retail I had the issue that we are discussing but Affinity say is by design. Hence, I'm assuming, why its still not been fixed and now simply gets ignored.

Basically we have a very expensive RIP that throws a wobbly if any images are below 300dpi. Due to Affinity's bug AND implementation of document resize I can't get any images past it so I'm unable to use Affinity Photo. Simple as that.

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Perhaps many people did try but Affinity explained that the users didn't comprehend.
and people learning to use the app through lack of confidence didn't want to appear stupid and dropped the case.
I can't understand why Affinity didn't check the quality of their own features versus Photoshops, so as not to have vastly inferior functions like resize document.

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2 minutes ago, davemike said:

I think we should be united and insistent. 

FWIW, the developers have made it very clear several times that while they welcome feature requests & consider all of them, what gets implemented & most importantly when depends greatly on how that fits into what they already have plans to implement, how much bug testing is involved, what changes would be required in the native Affinity file format & the code base shared by all the Affinity apps, & which new features & improvenments to existing ones would benefit the greatest number of users.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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31 minutes ago, R C-R said:

FWIW, the developers have made it very clear several times that while they welcome feature requests & consider all of them, what gets implemented & most importantly when depends greatly on how that fits into what they already have plans to implement, how much bug testing is involved, what changes would be required in the native Affinity file format & the code base shared by all the Affinity apps, & which new features & improvenments to existing ones would benefit the greatest number of users.

I have no problem with that. My problem is that there is a bug, why include a resample tick box if it doesn't actually do anything? Plus we all get inconsistent results. But also the fact that there is no explanation of their implementation. You can't just add more pixels to an image and say the resolution has increased or take them away and say its decreased. Thats what is happening and its inherently wrong. When you change the DPI the pixels should remain constant and only the print size should change hence why its called Dots per inch and not Pixels per inch.

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8 minutes ago, Nazario said:

My problem is that there is a bug, why include a resample tick box if it doesn't actually do anything?

As I remember, they explained that you should change pixels into any terrestrial unit (cm, mm, in...) for that to work. But, I find it very complicated and unintuitive. The Ps implementation of "Image Size" is #1 and they should "Copy/Paste" it into Photo.


Best regards,

Petar Petrenko
Typesetter, Graphic Designer, Photographer
Skopje, Makedonija

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They don’t recognize bad software design as being a flaw/bug, that’s the way they thought it should work because they didn’t consider what is needed thoroughly. They insist that it was designed that way, so its ok. They will just explain that you don’t use it properly. The only way to get them to thoroughly compare the AP approach to that of photoshop, and i doubt that they would invest in making that feature successful even though every graphic designer has to resize nearly every photo he ever uses. In the meantime we can continue to use photoshop for resizing.

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16 minutes ago, davemike said:

They don’t recognize bad software design as being a flaw/bug, that’s the way they thought it should work because they didn’t consider what is needed thoroughly. They insist that it was designed that way, so its ok. They will just explain that you don’t use it properly. The only way to get them to thoroughly compare the AP approach to that of photoshop, and i doubt that they would invest in making that feature successful even though every graphic designer has to resize nearly every photo he ever uses. In the meantime we can continue to use photoshop for resizing.

That makes sense. If the design was intentional, then it isn't a bug. That's why you have suggestion forums to argue for why those intentional design decisions should change. Other developers for other softwares do the same distinction between what is a bug and an intentional design decision as well. I've been Beta testing Blender 2.80 since December, and they do the same thing there by dividing up bug reports and feature/design suggestions to different forums to make sure they stay organized.

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35 minutes ago, Nazario said:

My problem is that there is a bug, why include a resample tick box if it doesn't actually do anything? Plus we all get inconsistent results.

My point is simply that we are getting inconsistent results is by itself more than enough proof that there is a bug. It has nothing to do with how they think it should work or how we should be using it, whatever any of us think that might be. Nobody in their right mind would deliberately design software with a built-in inconsistency like this.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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45 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

As I remember, they explained that you should change pixels into any terrestrial unit (cm, mm, in...) for that to work. But, I find it very complicated and unintuitive.

More to the point, that does not work consistently in the 1.7 versions so it must be a bug.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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Interestingly this is now a "hot" topic with over 60 replies, yet still not an official word from Serif staff..

Hopefully one will be along shortly to say whether this is by design (and why) or if it's a bug that's on their radar :)

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FYI Preview app in MacOS also works exactly like Photoshop and I get consistent and more importantly 'expected' results. I'm trying to create an Automator workflow to allow me to drop files onto a workflow and to change the resolution for me but I'm struggling to find an action to change resolution. At least I can use Preview and its very quick too.

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2 minutes ago, BofG said:

Interestingly this is now a "hot" topic with over 60 replies, yet still not an official word from Serif staff..

There are 2 likely reasons for that:

  1. This topic isn't in any of the bug forums.
  2. The support staff has been overwhelmed by all the questions about the six 1.7 updates released at the end of last week, how they relate to one another & to the Affinity Publisher public beta, an unusually large & unexpected number of reports of update failures, & a lot of other related questions.

Affinity Photo 1.7.1, Affinity Designer 1.7.1, Affinity Publisher 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.1.143 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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1 hour ago, Petar Petrenko said:

As I remember, they explained that you should change pixels into any terrestrial unit (cm, mm, in...) for that to work. 

Doesn't matter what unit i use it just does not work. My initial screenshots were using CM and Pixels.

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32 minutes ago, R C-R said:

There are 2 likely reasons for that:

  1. This topic isn't in any of the bug forums.
  2. The support staff has been overwhelmed by all the questions about the six 1.7 updates released at the end of last week, how they relate to one another & to the Affinity Publisher public beta, an unusually large & unexpected number of reports of update failures, & a lot of other related questions.

Well I see your point, but it kind of falls down when there are two support staff posting in the "How many people work on Affinity" thread.

I'm not saying they should have time for an immediate answer, but a quick post to acknowledge this thread has been seen and is being looked into surely isn't too much to ask? This is after all the official support for paying customers.

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The question asked at the start of this thread was:
Basically if i have an image at 10x6cm at 150ppi how do i make it 5x3 @ 300ppi?

In the new 1.7 Photo video tutorial on resizing (see second post in this thread) at 2min 45sec it is clearly stated that if you wish to change just a documents DPI value without altering pixel size, then ‘Resample’ must be turned Off.
In the attached video this dose not work.
Every time with ‘Resample’ turned Off, the image size gains pixels when going from 150dpi to 300dpi.
As DPI is simply meta data in an image telling a printer what it should be aiming for. Altering just that on its own should not lead to pixels being added to an image.
Clearly something isn’t working right...

 


macOS 10.14.6  15" Macbook Pro, 2017  |  4 Core i7 3.1GHz CPU  |  Radeon Pro 555 2GB GPU + Integrated Intel HD Graphics 630 1.536GB  |  16GB RAM  |  Wacom Intuos4 M

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Good news!:)
Just installed the latest Photo beta 1.7.1.140 and changing an image’s DPI metadata only, no longer increases the images pixel dimensions when Resample is turn Off!
Have tried a variety of my existing AP files and loading new images and so far so good!B|


macOS 10.14.6  15" Macbook Pro, 2017  |  4 Core i7 3.1GHz CPU  |  Radeon Pro 555 2GB GPU + Integrated Intel HD Graphics 630 1.536GB  |  16GB RAM  |  Wacom Intuos4 M

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So I've just downloaded the Beta and it finally does seem to work (even though its not listed as being fixed?).

Anyhoo...

I can now see that the implementation of Document Resize is completely baffling to say the least (as I feared).

You have to set the units to Pixels. If you use any other unit it simply resamples even when you untick resample. This is just stupid and confusing! Something that compounds the confusion is the UI whereby you are unable to see the what the changes you input will be, so you have to go through with the operation you might not actually want by clicking resize, then open document resize again and then choose another unit to see the changes. If it simply showed the pixel dimensions in the window along with the chosen units and it updated live without having to click resize and then reopen document resize, it would then be just about bearable to use. WAY too many clicks are involved in a needlessly complex implementation. The same as the colour picker tool and the tab order in the Transform palette.

The UX seriously needs looking into in my opinion and the UI in parts.

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42 minutes ago, Nazario said:

I can now see that the implementation of Document Resize is completely baffling to say the least (as I feared).

Indeed ...


Affinity Photo  1.7.2.471 

Windows 10 Home  1903 (build 18362.175) - 64 bit processor - AMD A4-5000 APU with Radeon HD Graphics  1.50GHz - RAM 8,00 GB
Calibrated Monitor (Datacolor Spyder5 Pro)

 

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