Embedded and linked ressources — a suggestion

[Matthias]

I think the current way of managing so-called ”linked“ and “embedded” ressources is flawed. Here’s why: Linked or embedded — either way the picture becomes part of the document, which eventually is growing into a gargantuan size (if you use more than one instance of a picture in the same document, say, for design alternatives, the file size even multiplies). As it is now, the only difference between those two modes is that the linked mode keeps a connection to the original file and alerts the user when something has changed, whereas an embedded ressource doesn’t keep track of such changes. I think the two modes can easily be brought together in one.

Here’s my suggestion:

a) What is currently deemed a “linked“ ressource should be the new “embedded“, because it is: The ressource is copied into the Publisher document. When this ”embedded“ (formerly known as ”linked“) ressource is changed, Publisher recognizes it and prompts the user to either update it or to ignore the change — up to the point when the user chooses to ignore the external change.

b) A “linked“ ressource should be just this: an external file outside of the Publisher document, keeping the Publisher document size manageably low with all the advantages that come with it (likely screen redraw slowdowns happily accepted). Publisher keeps track of the ressource location (which, in order to make file exchange with co-workers easy, will always be recognized when it resides in the same folder as the Publisher document). Should the linked ressource be altered, Publisher updates the preview automatically, as long as the ressource name stays the same.

Thus the two currently existing modes would be covered with a). Then we had valuable a third one — b) — which would be my go-to choice (and seemingly that of some others here in the forum as well).

Of course, the same applies to Designer, maybe without a full-blown Ressource Manager.

 

Cheers

Matthias

[fde101]

This has come up multiple times in other threads.

[Matthias]

1 minute ago, fde101 said:

This has come up multiple times in other threads.

Right. I think however the idea to put the current two modes together is new.

[fde101]

Yes, I had previously suggested renaming the current "Linked" style as "Tracked" or something like that.

[Jeremy Bohn]

However they name things, there needs to be a way to NOT have the graphics moved into the Publisher file. Think about a project that consists of several Publisher files. Why would I want a photo or logo that is identical throughout copied into each Publisher file? It's not necessary and the file size would be unnecessarily large.

[James Burton]

I, too, have similar considerations... However, it would also make sense to me to have a "Master Embed All Graphics" button selection as well as the option for  "Link All Graphics" for more flexibility.

[Matthias]

11 hours ago, James Burton said:

it would also make sense to me to have a "Master Embed All Graphics" button selection as well as the option for  "Link All Graphics" for more flexibility.

Great idea and low hanging fruit once true ressource linking is here. This could be the stripped-down version of the Ressource Manager for Designer (understanding that Affinity has to provide unique per-app-features).

Frankly, the only reason for not building in true ressource linking I can think of is possible difficulties with the iOS file system, where the Affinity iOS apps have to maintain feature parity. Just speculating …

[fde101]

10 hours ago, James Burton said:

 "Link All Graphics"

This would not work for graphics that are pasted into the document from the clipboard as there would not necessarily be any file to link to.

[Matthias]

37 minutes ago, fde101 said:

This would not work for graphics that are pasted into the document from the clipboard as there would not necessarily be any file to link to.

True. So the button should be named something like „link all non-pasted ressources“ :-)

[fde101]

Actually, let's expand on this a bit...  it could be "all possible" resources or similar, but why not at the same time offer an option to actually export embedded resources for which the original files might be missing to a selected folder then link to the exported resources?

 

How about an "Update Status" button that gives us a popup with some options:

• Update resources: (all, currently linked, currently embedded, selected in resource manager, selected in document)
• With source files: (available or missing, available, missing/unknown)
• [ ] Copy/Export resources (to where?)
  • [ ] Only if source file not available
  • [ ] Re-link to exported files
• Status: (remains unchanged, update to embedded, update to linked)

[Old Bruce]

12 hours ago, James Burton said:

 "Link All Graphics" for more flexibility.

Do you really want to have to find all the original documents? Or wait while some automatic search goes through all the drives local and networked?

I do like the Embed All Graphics button idea and I would use it.

[garrettm30]

On 4/27/2019 at 3:06 PM, Matthias said:

a) What is currently deemed a “linked“ ressource should be the new “embedded“, because it is: The ressource is copied into the Publisher document. When this ”embedded“ (formerly known as ”linked“) ressource is changed, Publisher recognizes it and prompts the user to either update it or to ignore the change — up to the point when the user chooses to ignore the external change.

In principle I like the general idea of "true" linked images as discussed in the thread, but I disagree that embedded images should still track changes to external files. I would leave the current embedded functionality as it is.

[Matthias]

3 hours ago, garrettm30 said:

In principle I like the general idea of "true" linked images as discussed in the thread, but I disagree that embedded images should still track changes to external files. I would leave the current embedded functionality as it is.

Many Apps do this. Like InDesign. And as soon as you’d choose to not take over a change of a resource Publisher (and Designer) would stop tracking changes of this particular file.

[Matthias]

5 hours ago, fde101 said:

How about an "Update Status" button that gives us a popup with some options:

• Update resources: (all, currently linked, currently embedded, selected in resource manager, selected in document)
• With source files: (available or missing, available, missing/unknown)
• [ ] Copy/Export resources (to where?)
  • [ ] Only if source file not available
  • [ ] Re-link to exported files
• Status: (remains unchanged, update to embedded, update to linked)

Yeah, why not? But maybe there is to be considered a tradeoff between granularity and ease of use. That decision would be up to the Affinity team :-)

[garrettm30]

4 minutes ago, Matthias said:

Many Apps do this. Like InDesign. And as soon as you choose to not take over a change Publisher (and Designer) would stop tracking changes to this particular file.

Unless I am missing something, InDesign does not update embedded graphics when external files are changed. From Adobe's Indesign online help manual:

Quote

Rather than link to a file that you’ve placed in a document, you can embed (or store) the file within the document. When you embed a file, you break the link to the original. Without the link, the Links panel doesn’t alert you when the original has changed, and you cannot update the file automatically.

https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/graphics-links.html#embed_an_image_within_the_document

You can also relink an embedded file, but then you have to navigate the file to relink to.

I think this proposed hybrid "embedded but still linked" can lead to confusion.

 

[Matthias]

4 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

Do you really want to have to find all the original documents? Or wait while some automatic search goes through all the drives local and networked?

I sure would like it — as an option.

[Matthias]

 

7 minutes ago, garrettm30 said:

I think this proposed hybrid "embedded but still linked" can lead to confusion.

”embedded but still linked“ is the current way of handling so called ”linked“ ressources. It works just fine though I’d prefer true linking.

[fde101]

This discussion is bringing to light some of the reasoning behind my original suggestion of having three different states:

• The current "embedded" stays as-is
• The current "linked" becomes "tracked", "embedded but still linked", "linked with an embedded copy", whatever you want to call it
• The new "linked" is the more traditional version of "linked", with at most a tiny embedded thumbnail for faster rendering while loading the original, or to use as a substitute when the original is missing (but with the expectation that quality would suffer).

[Matthias]

2 hours ago, fde101 said:

• The current "embedded" stays as-is
• The current "linked" becomes "tracked", "embedded but still linked", "linked with an embedded copy", whatever you want to call it
• The new "linked" is the more traditional version of "linked", with at most a tiny embedded thumbnail for faster rendering while loading the original, or to use as a substitute when the original is missing (but with the expectation that quality would suffer).

We are in the same boat, fde101.

Your three states are exactly what I have in mind, with the merely semantic difference that I’d lump the existing first two states together and switch from the default ”tracked“ state to ”embedded“ by user choise via a pop-up once a ”tracked” ressource is changed externally. But I’d be just as happy with three separate modes — as long as the third one is of the new „truely linked” flavour.

[Dave Harris]

The way it works now is not the way it is supposed to work. It is supposed to reduce the document size; it's a bug that it doesn't. We're not intending a "tracked" feature.

This hasn't been fixed already for internal reasons I can't explain here, but we've not forgotten about it.

[Matthias]

3 hours ago, Dave Harris said:

It is supposed to reduce the document size; it's a bug that it doesn't. […]

This hasn't been fixed already for internal reasons I can't explain here, but we've not forgotten about it.

Great to hear, Dave, what a relief!

Now, my understanding is that once it is a Publisher feature, Designer and Photo have to understand it since documents are interchangeable. Might I ask you to extend the linked/embedded feature as a user choice to Designer as well, if necessary minus the full-blown Ressource Manager?