iPad graphics tablet

[David]

Ok I think I have casually requested this but haven't actually added it to the forum.

 

Im looking into a graphics tablet, however I started to look at tablet with a screen, then it sprung to mind that an iPad is way cheeper with (probably) and much better screen and way a better os.

 

Now I don't know if this is possible but could an iPad be used with the addition of an app? (bolt on sale for you chaps here) Live screen action would be fantastic or sketches be send to Affinity designer on completion?

[MEB]

David, take a look at this.

[000]

Hi David,

 

the app you are probably looking for is called "Air Stylus" and can be found in the iPad App Store.

Works over WiFi, more info at www.avatron.com

 

I don't know if an how well it works with Affinity Designer (actually opened a thread here in the forums a while ago with this exact question), so, should you buy it and try it, I'd appreciate a short review about your experience.

[paolo.limoncelli]

Ok I think I have casually requested this but haven't actually added it to the forum.

 

Im looking into a graphics tablet, however I started to look at tablet with a screen, then it sprung to mind that an iPad is way cheeper with (probably) and much better screen and way a better os.

 

Now I don't know if this is possible but could an iPad be used with the addition of an app? (bolt on sale for you chaps here) Live screen action would be fantastic or sketches be send to Affinity designer on completion?

 

To do that you need:

• The app suggested by Kerbs
• A pressure sensitive stylus for iPad (as Adonit, Wacom, Adobe or HEX3 ones)
• An iPad Air to get decent speed

And you'll find that the so much promoted palm rejection doesn't work as well as they say (after 1 year and half I'm still waiting for a good palm rejection on Procreate for my Jot Touch 4...).  Moreover there are frustrating lags between OSX and iOS managing such resolution via WiFi.

Last of all... iPad is retina, but delivers a 1024x768 working area.

 

If you are ready to work on a screen as you would on a wet oil paint canvas and to damn the world every 10 minutes to get a decent stroke... Welcome...  :D

 

I think that for professional work the Cintiq 13D is the rock solid budget solution.

 

Tablets are GREAT for sketching, but still young for production.

Samsung solutions based on Android are the best in terms of ergonomy (wacom pressure layer, palm rejection trigger) but lack of professional apps to paint.

iPad have some wonderful apps as Procreate, Concepts and recently Pixelmator that can handle easily 4K pictures... But styluses are tricky and I haven't found a palm rejection feature that works seamless...

[David]

Thanks Paolo and Jens

 

I was looking at the Cintiq 13D as you suggested, I will have to see if I can go test drive one :) 

I do a lot of sketch work and love pen & ink, but with a mouse I have never been able to translate my style perfectly into a digital platform.

[paolo.limoncelli]

I've seen your wonderful works!

 

Last year I decided to try an iPad Mini with an Adonit Jot Touch, after the first couple of months of excitement... I switched back to my old Intuos...

Now I use it only for mental models and fast notes.

This summer I tried a Cintiq 13HD in Berlin and I decided it was sturdy enough for my needs... Even exceeds these ones to be honest...   :D

 

There are economic alternatives too made by Monoprice and Huion, but almost impossible to try, and some geeky friends told me that are not so reliable on OSX. Personally don't have the patience to waste too much time with hardware, drivers and similar... Please take these thoughts as pure feelings... I'm not an hw specialist nor a geek... So beware of the consequences  :P

 

Anyway you can find lots of reviews about art hw solutions on Ray Frenden's blog.

[peter]

Hi David,

 

Why not ask ronniemcbride?

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/3121-what-tablet-do-i-use/&p=24220

 

This post is where you should be at this moment in time.

 

HTH

 

peter

[ronnyb]

Currently COOLEST iPad > Display Tablet app... runs at 60fps uncompressed! http://astropad.com

[paolo.limoncelli]

Mmmm... Tried.

Unreliable...

[MattP]

I've also tried it with great excitement - I really want them to succeed... but it just looked too pixellated all the time right now - hopefully they can resolve this in the future? It was definitely a more viable alternative to the other similar app that I tried a month ago, which had permanent lossy compression artefacts on what was essentially a static image, but I just felt it's still not there yet.

 

Like I said though, I really want them to succeed and would happily buy it if the display issues I'm currently seeing can be resolved...

[ronnyb]

Oh bummer... :( was psyched about the specs... I gave away all my iPad styluses to my nephews for their birthdays... I guess I'll have to wait for the mythical iPad pro... although I would prefer to see someone retrofit a 5K iMac with a Wacom pressure sensitive layer and puck ala Cintiq 24 QHD, but native Mac OS X... that would be sick platform to run Affinity on, lol...

[ronnyb]

Paolo & Matt, did you try it wired or wireless?

[MattP]

Wireless - because that's how I actually want to use it... Wired might be better, maybe?

 

 

Edit: Just had a look and their website says "Works equally well plugged in or wirelessly"

[paolo.limoncelli]

I tried it wireless... Makes no sense to use it with an iPad wired...

There is a plenty of used Cintiq13HD that are wired too... And these are truly professional tools.

 

The whole cost of an entry Cintiq is almost the same of an iPad Air + Adonit/Wacom pen + Astropad

But you are 10" not 13", palm rejection is not seamless and global ux far from top notch...

 

IMHO today it stil doesn't worth...

 

Hope they'll improve it soon!

[ronnyb]

Good points, @paolo... hopefully apple will release the mythical iPad Pro or iPadAir  Plus with this feature as well as iOS level support for Stylus' baked into it, perhaps even on the hardware side....

[specworkfan]

The problem with the iPad, and Apple products in general is the lack of a native digitizer. Since Microsoft bought N-Trig (wacom's only competitor) it is obvious Apple is developing their own system since wacom wants way too much money to play ball. I hope the iPad Pro can be used like you are wishing to use it. You are not the only one who dreams of this!

I have quite a bit of experience on creating professional content with the iPad. None of the styli mentioned are worth $5 because they do an awful job of pressure sensitivity, and staying synced with the iPad.  The mechanisms used to detect pressure are also wonky, and I've yet to have any of these last more than two weeks of heavy use without breaking entirely. You are better off with a dumb stylus and manually adjusting your brush widths, because the rubber wears out quickly. It is possible to do the same thing without pressure sensitivity, you just waste time adjusting things and doing strokes over and over. 

As for using the iPad as an external monitor, this is possible, but it doesn't play nice with OSX. It's more to use for extra screen space. You will need a cintiq, yiynova, or some other external digitizer to work with it. Unfortunately none of those are wireless.  You can buy a 19" digitizer for less than an iPad, but of course that's still spending on more hardware.

On the iPad I would highly recommend Art Studio. It is miles ahead of anything else for iOS. It is very intuitive like Affinity Designer/Photo, and it's only $5 (another $5 for an amazing set of brushes). It almost looks like Affinity too. One huge draw back of doing work on the iPad is the paltry amount of RAM. You cannot do more than five 2000x2000px layers in Art Studio. This is much more restrictive than not having pressure sensitivity.

[paolo.limoncelli]

I have quite a bit of experience on creating professional content with the iPad. None of the styli mentioned are worth $5 because they do an awful job of pressure sensitivity, and staying synced with the iPad.

 

I do agree... Wasted lot of money in Adonit/Jaja and relative hacks...

First two months happy, then dust on a shelf...

 

I don't like Surface too...

It's like drawing with a ballpoint pen on glass to me.

 

I'm curious about latest Adobe pen... But seems to be the same Adonit Pixel point tech.

Have to try...

[ronnyb]

I believe ProCreate no supports 4K x 4K canvas, which is nice...

 

Yeah the main drawback was the slickness of the glass for me as well, Paolo... Which is why I keep going back to my trusty Intuous Pro S :)

 

On a side note, I have managed to get good performance from the iPad as an external display using Duet, which drives it via a wired connection. I was playing with setting up most of the Affinity palettes on the iPad and it seems to work ok, although last version didn't remember Studio layouts for 1 vs 2 displays...  I haven't checked how this works in the latest beta yet

[deeds]

TL:DR don't give up on iOS for massive improvements in touch and stylus based input of creative endeavour, they have the technology in their system for a very long time.

 

 

The problem with the iPad, and Apple products in general is the lack of a native digitizer. Since Microsoft bought N-Trig (wacom's only competitor) it is obvious Apple is developing their own system since wacom wants way too much money to play ball. I hope the iPad Pro can be used like you are wishing to use it. You are not the only one who dreams of this!

I have quite a bit of experience on creating professional content with the iPad. None of the styli mentioned are worth $5 because they do an awful job of pressure sensitivity, and staying synced with the iPad.  The mechanisms used to detect pressure are also wonky, and I've yet to have any of these last more than two weeks of heavy use without breaking entirely. You are better off with a dumb stylus and manually adjusting your brush widths, because the rubber wears out quickly. It is possible to do the same thing without pressure sensitivity, you just waste time adjusting things and doing strokes over and over. 

As for using the iPad as an external monitor, this is possible, but it doesn't play nice with OSX. It's more to use for extra screen space. You will need a cintiq, yiynova, or some other external digitizer to work with it. Unfortunately none of those are wireless.  You can buy a 19" digitizer for less than an iPad, but of course that's still spending on more hardware.

On the iPad I would highly recommend Art Studio. It is miles ahead of anything else for iOS. It is very intuitive like Affinity Designer/Photo, and it's only $5 (another $5 for an amazing set of brushes). It almost looks like Affinity too. One huge draw back of doing work on the iPad is the paltry amount of RAM. You cannot do more than five 2000x2000px layers in Art Studio. This is much more restrictive than not having pressure sensitivity.

 

There is a little known private API in iOS called pathMajorRadius

 

This is the missing magic to creating touch "sensitivity" and it's not limited in the ways that previous approaches are or have been.

 

However, due to the (still) evolving nature of Apple screen lamination and touch sensing technologies they've not (yet) felt comfortable releasing this API and the rest of its family of touch sensing functionality.

 

I expect the bonding processes of the iPad Air 2 might be sufficiently standardised for a couple of generations, and ideally applicable to a "Pro" iPad that we'll see at least some consideration for a use of this approach to creative input, soon.

 

The upshot of this approach is that ANY input device can have "pressure" sensitivity, and there's a very good chance directional pressures/angles can be interpreted through some of the related private APIs. Again, for any kind of input device.

This means that even your finger can be a good/great indicator of pressured and directional input intention.

 

We've been playing with this API for a couple of years, in a different field (musical instrument expressiveness via touch and tilt) and achieved some extraordinary results, but are unable to release anything because it's still a private API.

 

Our tests indicate it's primary purpose is for creative input.

 

This has other purposes:

 

I believe it's being used by iOS to ascertain the position of your touch based on the orientation of the device, and that there's corresponding APIs like pathMinorRadius and some axis determinants attempting to ascertain left or right handed operation and therefore the position of your intended touch, regardless the irregularities of your finger.

 

You can best see how this is being done if you turn your device upside down with screen rotation lock on, so your content is upside down. Now try to touch horizontally thin table cells. You'll notice you're missing, sometimes. 

 

iOS is speculating where you intend to touch based on the pear shaped nature of a finger's contact point. I believe that's being ascertained by the use of a minor and major radius comparison.

[paolo.limoncelli]

Really interesting Deeds...

 

iOS is speculating where you intend to touch based on the pear shaped nature of a finger's contact point. I believe that's being ascertained by the use of a minor and major radius comparison.

 

This makes sense... And furthermore opens to a wide number of interesting implementations as you told.

 

I think Ten One employed it to craft its Pogo connect brushes and relative app.

 

https://tenonedesign.com/connect.php

 

Do you think that latest devices are sensitive enough to handle the contact shape of a nib?

It is almost similar to the pear shaped finger tip... 

 

 

 

 

 

But much smaller... This seems to be the very unsolved problem... 

 

 

 

[deeds]

As I understand it, all current pens with sensitivity on iOS are using built in (to the pen) pressure sensitivity, and then reporting that to the device via bluetooth, and the software then takes that information to do as it pleases.

 

There's some possible advantages to this that have never been used, like drag resistance reporting to provide truly brush-like distortions of the ink/paint source, and wonderful airbrushing angle effects. Not even Wacom bothers to explore this stuff, they don't need to, they have the business of professional stylus input all to themselves.

 

In China there are some painting apps (for writing Chinese calligraphy) that use the private APIs in conjunction with complex speed sensing to do some really interesting impersonation of the qualities of the best of Chinese writing styles. But these apps, because they use private APIs, are not on the App Store.

 

One of my friends is the creator of one of them, his full time work being to make Chinese calligraphic teaching tools for schools in Southern China, and his hobby is exploring how much better these things can be if/when Apple releases public access to the sensor information coming from their touch screens.

 

btw Apple's touchscreen sensor technology and their OS's integration with their reporting is so far superior to just about all Android devices that it's not even worth discussing the alternative. Fundamentally Apple has taken a "performance first" approach to touch, tilt, audio and even video. Those decades of Apple being the leader in creative computing are playing out in terms of superior performance on iOS devices for all the things that matter to end users.

 

A lot of people, including me, bemoan the demise of truly pro quality Mac computers for all fields of creativity, but we have to be happy that they've put those decades of focus on performance and responsiveness into the iOS devices. Without that they'd just be phones and Personal Assistants. But instead we're approaching the iPad and bigger screen iPhones becoming creative platforms in their own right.

 

And that, to me, is very cool.

[ronnyb]

I hope you're right and apple redefines stylus and it's UI... That's the missing feature for tablets, IMHO, at least for professional (not necessarily creative) use... 

[specworkfan]

Yes, the pressure sensor is in the pen for all iOS styli. If you didn't know the first thing about computers you would assume this would be the best solution to writing on a screen, but in the real world it doesn't work very well. The sensors break, they are so small and with so much variance in force that it is very difficult to make something that works well.

NFC I hear is an improvement over bluetooth, a protocol that iOS has never utilized fully. Perhaps this would improve the experience for these, but I suspect the real deal will be here soon. Wacom is an ok company, but they let their products stagnate and don't develop as aggressively as they should. They don't offer a super high res solution for their cintiq line for example. The 13HD is ok, but could be better. 

 

I agree that Apple's touch screens far exceed any competitors. I would assume the heavy lifting for the superior response is mostly in the OS. As much as I prefer Android or Windows, I can't get past the touch screens inferior feel on devices not running iOS.
 

 

As I understand it, all current pens with sensitivity on iOS are using built in (to the pen) pressure sensitivity, and then reporting that to the device via bluetooth, and the software then takes that information to do as it pleases.

 

There's some possible advantages to this that have never been used, like drag resistance reporting to provide truly brush-like distortions of the ink/paint source, and wonderful airbrushing angle effects. Not even Wacom bothers to explore this stuff, they don't need to, they have the business of professional stylus input all to themselves.

 

In China there are some painting apps (for writing Chinese calligraphy) that use the private APIs in conjunction with complex speed sensing to do some really interesting impersonation of the qualities of the best of Chinese writing styles. But these apps, because they use private APIs, are not on the App Store.

 

One of my friends is the creator of one of them, his full time work being to make Chinese calligraphic teaching tools for schools in Southern China, and his hobby is exploring how much better these things can be if/when Apple releases public access to the sensor information coming from their touch screens.

 

btw Apple's touchscreen sensor technology and their OS's integration with their reporting is so far superior to just about all Android devices that it's not even worth discussing the alternative. Fundamentally Apple has taken a "performance first" approach to touch, tilt, audio and even video. Those decades of Apple being the leader in creative computing are playing out in terms of superior performance on iOS devices for all the things that matter to end users.

 

A lot of people, including me, bemoan the demise of truly pro quality Mac computers for all fields of creativity, but we have to be happy that they've put those decades of focus on performance and responsiveness into the iOS devices. Without that they'd just be phones and Personal Assistants. But instead we're approaching the iPad and bigger screen iPhones becoming creative platforms in their own right.

 

And that, to me, is very cool.

[ronnyb]

I haven't tried this one yet, but seems like a fun way to use the existing multi-touch trackpad on MacBook Pros as a tablet...

 

https://tenonedesign.com/inklet.php

[haotian]

I got a Graphic Pen Monitor XP-Pen Artist 15.6 back in December 2018 and it works great! I didn't really have any problems getting it to work with affinity  ,  I haven't noticed any input lag and it hasn't given out to me for being on a windows pc.