Variable Font Support

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, Hangman said:

That is what appears to be the bug, i.e., using the cursive slider in the Font Variations panel fails, you only see the effect when changing the stylistic set to cursive in the Typography panel...

I wasn't sure if that is what you meant so thanks for the clarification. Anybody know of another free variable font with a Cursive variation we could test with? This might tell us if it is something particular to Geologica or what....

[Alfred]

15 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Anybody know of another free variable font with a Cursive variation we could test with?

The other one listed at https://fonts.google.com/variablefonts is Recursive.

[StuartRc]

18 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I wasn't sure if that is what you meant so thanks for the clarification. Anybody know of another free variable font with a Cursive variation we could test with? This might tell us if it is something particular to Geologica or what....

There is another font with similar Variable axes =Recursive I just installed it but also only showing 2 of the 5 variable options (https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Recursive)

I only see MONO and CASL

[Alfred]

Just now, Alfred said:

The other one listed at https://fonts.google.com/variablefonts is Recursive.

 

Just now, StuartRc said:

There is another font with similar Variable axes =Recursive I just installed it but also only showing 2 of the 5 variable options (https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Recursive)

Snap!

 

[StuartRc]

Just now, Alfred said:

The other one listed at https://fonts.google.com/variablefonts is Recursive.

beat me to it!

[R C-R]

5 minutes ago, StuartRc said:

There is another font with similar Variable axes =Recursive I just installed it but also only showing 2 of the 5 variable options (https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Recursive)

First of all, WOW! There are 63 styles listed for me in APub beta for this font.

But more to the point, all 5 variables show up for me in the variations popup, & all except Cursive have a noticeable effect, so the bug seems to be with the Cursive variable.

[StuartRc]

8 minutes ago, R C-R said:

First of all, WOW! There are 63 styles listed for me in APub beta for this font.

But more to the point, all 5 variables show up for me in the variations popup, & all except Cursive have a noticeable effect, so the bug seems to be with the Cursive variable.

That is a lot....Noto Sans Display has 72!

[Hangman]

10 minutes ago, StuartRc said:

There is another font with similar Variable axes =Recursive I just installed it but also only showing 2 of the 5 variable options

This is where I'm a little confused...

Yes, e.g., on Google Fonts (other variable font websites are available) differing numbers of axes for variable fonts are marketed/promoted but I'm slightly unsure how one determines which axes the font designer has actually specified should be hidden...

Why does Roboto Flex advertise 13 variables but only choose to make five available?

I'm sure I'm likely missing the obvious but interested to know...

[MikeTO]

4 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Why does Roboto Flex advertise 13 variables but only choose to make five available?

I'm sure I'm likely missing the obvious but interested to know...

Ash wrote this in the first post:

"Why would a designer do this? Well, a variable font might adjust an axis internally based on your choices for other axes that you can directly adjust. For example, observe how counter widths change when the weight axis is adjusted in the animation above."

[StuartRc]

5 minutes ago, Hangman said:

This is where I'm a little confused...

Yes, e.g., on Google Fonts (other variable font websites are available) differing numbers of axes for variable fonts are marketed/promoted but I'm slightly unsure how one determines which axes the font designer has actually specified should be hidden...

Why does Roboto Flex advertise 13 variables but only choose to make five available?

I'm sure I'm likely missing the obvious but interested to know...

That is a good question. maybe the variable options are non standard. or bespoke from a developer. Depends on which ones are priority. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXxI0fLtQyE&t=4s

 

[Hangman]

14 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

Ash wrote this in the first post:

"Why would a designer do this? Well, a variable font might adjust an axis internally based on your choices for other axes that you can directly adjust. For example, observe how counter widths change when the weight axis is adjusted in the animation above."

That I understand, but why develop a jet engine but only present a carrier pigeon, the font designer promotes all the 'possibilities of the font's various axes but then decides eight of those are not worth including...

My question would be... I think many a designer would love access to some of the other unique variables the font offers so why is the font designer spending time developing the other variables if they're never going to see the light of day?

14 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

Well, a variable font might adjust an axis internally based on your choices for other axes that you can directly adjust. For example, observe how counter widths change when the weight axis is adjusted in the animation above.

That happens but only under certain circumstances, so why not make all axes available so the designer can experiment?

[walt.farrell]

6 minutes ago, Hangman said:

so why is the font designer spending time developing the other variables if they're never going to see the light of day?

They do see the light of day, but only automatically, not under your manual control.

Maybe the font designer knows which combinations of settings will look reasonable. And maybe they don't want a user choosing an ugly combination and then telling people they used "font x" which has the font designer's name on it, to produce ugly work that the font designer doesn't want their name associated with.

[Hangman]

4 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Maybe the font designer knows which combinations of settings will look reasonable. And maybe they don't want a user choosing an ugly combination and then telling people they used "font x" which has the font designer's name on it, to produce ugly work that the font designer doesn't want their name associated with.

My font of choice is Roboto Flex and for my design, the only variable attributes I wish to include are 'ascender height' and 'descender depth' which both look very reasonable when used sensibly, by no means ugly (at least for my design) but the font designer, despite having taken the time to include these options doesn't make these variations available (despite other fonts/font designers doing so)...

If the 'danger' is that the font designer doesn't want a user choosing an ugly combination and then telling people they used "font x" which has the font designer's name on it, why would they even create that as an option in the first place?

[walt.farrell]

9 minutes ago, Hangman said:

why would they even create that as an option in the first place?

Again, the option is used in the font, but only under control of the font designer, automatically, not under direct control of the user. 

[Viktor CR]

20 minutes ago, Hangman said:

carrier pigeon

A jet engine may have axes

• throttle
• cooling intensity
• direction vector
• air volume
• reverse thrust

… etc
The pilot, however would want only throttle, direction and reverse thrust, right? They wouldn't want to make the pilot remember to adjust the cooling and air volume controls, and neither would they want the pilot able to tweak them in a way, that may damage the engine.

It's the same with these additional hidden axes in a font:
When font size is increased on a serif font, the stroke width - to - size - relation axis may need to be adjusted for optically pleasing typography — however, also the size of the serifs needs to be adjusted in unison, so there is another axis changing with size.
Instead of making the user tweak everything manually, the font designer may expose only one additional axis called "optical adjustment", that then influences how the other two react to font size.

A font is a product and thus has to meet expectations, here: aesthetics. A finely tuned orchestration of all axes is what makes a font great, and that's what is important to font users at the axis interface level.

De-tuning a font may be interesting for artistic purposes, but I think we can agree, that that's advanced use. Showing all axes by standard would be overwhelming and a disservice to the user.
Maybe an option to switch on hidden axes can be provided — but remember: as soon as you'd adjust the official axes, the setting of all associated hidden axes would get recalculated and thus reset, anyway.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

Why does Roboto Flex advertise 13 variables but only choose to make five available?

I'm probably missing something obvious but where do you see 13 variables (same as axes?) advertised?

[adrien_b]

2 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I'm probably missing something obvious but where do you see 13 variables (same as axes?) advertised?

Here: https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto+Flex/tester

[R C-R]

@StuartRc, are you still not seeing all the sliders in some of the fonts that others like myself are seeing? If so, any idea why? Could it be related to the OS version?

Also, can a few Windows users confirm seeing the same bug with the Cursive slider for Geologica or Recursive in Win10 & Win11? 

[Hangman]

2 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I'm probably missing something obvious but where do you see 13 variables (same as axes?) advertised?

As ‘promoted’ and available to experiment with on Google Fonts and other variable font Apps, only five of the variables are made available by the font designer as per @Ash’s notes at the start of this thread…

[R C-R]

11 minutes ago, adrien_b said:

Here: https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Roboto+Flex/tester

Thanks but I get a nearly empty window for that URL on my Mac in Safari. Except for a few tiny icons that do not seem to have anything to do with any particular font, this is what I see:

I just noticed that the URL immediately redirects to https://fonts.google.com for me. No idea why.

[adrien_b]

3 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Thanks but I get a nearly empty window for that URL on my Mac in Safari. Except for a few tiny icons that do not seem to have anything to do with any particular font, this is what I see:

Oops... The number of axes is displayed when searching for a font anyway

[R C-R]

4 minutes ago, adrien_b said:

Oops... The number of axes is displayed when searching for a font anyway

OK, I see that but I would not considering that to mean there are 13 axes "advertised" in the sense of being exposed to direct manipulation in every app that supports variable fonts.

[adrien_b]

16 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Also, can a few Windows users confirm seeing the same bug with the Cursive slider for Geologica or Recursive in Win10 & Win11? 

I can confirm the Cursive variable does not work on Win11 for Recursive. By the way I wonder why Affinity allows input between 0 and 1 since the user should only be able to access either 0 or 0.5 (stands for 'auto') or 1 for this specific font, as shown on its demo website (https://www.recursive.design/) :

[R C-R]

3 minutes ago, adrien_b said:

By the way I wonder why Affinity allows input between 0 and 1 since the user should only be able to access either 0 or 0.5 (stands for 'auto') or 1 for this specific font, as shown on its demo website (https://www.recursive.design/)

I wondered about that, although I thought it might should just be a slider that only allowed snapping to 3 settings.

[StuartRc]

41 minutes ago, R C-R said:

@StuartRc, are you still not seeing all the sliders in some of the fonts that others like myself are seeing? If so, any idea why? Could it be related to the OS version?

Also, can a few Windows users confirm seeing the same bug with the Cursive slider for Geologica or Recursive in Win10 & Win11? 

Hi I think so Win 10 anyway but I cannot test Win 11. It is possible that the issue/s seen are related to the axis support applied to Affinity apps. If you stick to the registered Axis definitions (like weight height slant optical size) + a few others; then obscure ones like these (https://v-fonts.com/tags/C5) would not be visible \ supported () ...or go to v-fonts.com and search the tags for unusual axes. You can see an extreme example here: https://github.com/googlefonts/decovar

have a read through this here