William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 A number of years ago, Google street view announced images from within various art galleries. For MoMA, the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the then display included the foyer of the museum. Within the foyer was a sign in about six or seven languages. As best I remember the sign was black with white lettering. The top line had the sentence Thank you for visiting. in English. Below it were versions in several other languages, including possibly Japanese and Chinese. As I was at that time already researching on communication through the language barrier using encoded localizable sentences, I added that sentence to the set of sentences that I am using in my research. Since that time the Google display has gone, the print screen image that I gethered was on a computer that broke down, the foyer of MoMA has been rebuilt. So, here is my version of the sign, a language-independent glyph for the sentence that I designed displayed using a font that I designed and produced using the High-Logic FontCreator program, the sentence in English together with translations into some other languages using Google translate, all typeset in the font EB Garamond from Google fonts, together with a QR code that contains an encoding for the ;localizable sentence. The QR code, a "free text" type of QR code, by using the facility at https://www.the-qrcode-generator.com/ and produced earlier this morning. The idea is that if a person's language is not in the list, then maybe the person will recognise the glyph and its meaning. Also, the idea is that the QR code could be read by a device and a suitable app could automatically decode the meaning into the language for which the particular sentence.dat file is active for use with the app. William NotMyFault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Could someone who has a device with a camera and a QR decoding app possibly try to decode the QR code by directly photographing the screen display please? I am wondering if that will work from a computer display rather than from a hardcopy print. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 41 minutes ago, William Overington said: So, here is my version of the sign, a language-independent glyph for the sentence that I designed displayed using a font that I designed … together with a QR code that contains an encoding for the localizable sentence. What does the glyph tell you that the code !983 doesn’t? I appreciate that the purpose-made glyph allows you to convey the meaning with one character instead of four, but it means that you’re restricted to using a specialized font. 1 minute ago, William Overington said: Could someone who has a device with a camera and a QR decoding app possibly try to decode the QR code by directly photographing the screen display please? You don’t need a camera, you just need a (partial) screenshot. Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 57 minutes ago, Alfred said: What does the glyph tell you that the code !983 doesn’t? Would you know what !983 on a sign means? However, if that glyph were a well-recognized international symbol for "Thank you for visiting" then you might know. As far as I know, it is not a well-recognized glyph, and so is probably meaningless to most visitors (just as !983 would be). PaulEC and William Overington 1 1 Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.6.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.6.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Thank you for replying. I made the QR code at the following website. It is a "free text" format QR code. https://www.the-qrcode-generator.com/ I download a png file. I then verified the QR code content using the following facility. https://products.aspose.app/barcode/recognize/qr I then opened the Paint program twice. I opened the QR code in one, and pasted a copy onto a larger blank canvas in the other one. I then added some text and some graphic scribble, saved as a png and tried decoding that, and it worked fine. I then used Affinity Designer to proiduce the image, at a size compatible for me being able to get a print as a greetings card if I choose to do so. I then produced the forum post. Then I download from the thread display so as to get a "_got_back_from_forum" version from the file. I then tried decoding the QR code from that jpg file, and it worked fine. 1 hour ago, Alfred said: You don’t need a camera, you just need a (partial) screenshot. I know that it is well-known that a device can read and decode a QR code from a printed page. It might be well-known that a device can read and decode a QR code from a screen, (sometimes?, always?) but I don't know that myself. Even if it is well-known in general, for completeness I would like to know that it in practice possible to use a device to read and decode the QR code that is in the first post in this thread. For example, on the basis of "aim for the stars and I might be fortunate" suppose that a version of the design above was displayed electronically at MoMA, in a similar way to the way that the emoji exhibit was displayed. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/emoji_installation_at_MoMA.htm One could not gather a screenshot from such a display. 1 hour ago, Alfred said: What does the glyph tell you that the code !983 doesn’t? I appreciate that the purpose-made glyph allows you to convey the meaning with one character instead of four, but it means that you’re restricted to using a specialized font. Some of the codes are longer, and for some larger sets of sentences the glyphs are structured in a logical manner in their design so as to make remembering them easier. This glyph is related in its structure to the glyph for Welcome. One does need a specialized font to produce the graphic, but the glyphs are open source, so in time they may become available in more fonts. I like to think of the glyphs as being glyphs for a language, Language Y, where Language Y only has what are whole sentences in other languages, and that the code numbers are for communication systems - electronic, hand written, discs with digits upon them, voice over a telephone link - and decoded as the recipient chooses within the limits of what is available to the recipient, so either to text in a language, a glyph of language Y, or just an exclamation mark and digits and a card with a lookup table printed upon it, and so on. The central idea being communication through the language barrier - not for every possible situation at all, but useful in some poarticular circumstances. An objection to localizable sentences that is sometimes voiced is that one cannot hope to encode every possible sentence that might be used in a conversation, and the idea is then dismissed as ridiculous. Yet while it is true that one cannot hope to encode every possible sentence that might be used in a conversation, the same limitation applies mutatis mutandis to the encoding of emoji and the production of clip art collections. Yet emoji are enoded and collections of clip art are produced. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: Would you know what !983 on a sign means? No, not without looking it up. 5 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: However, if that glyph were a well-recognized international symbol for "Thank you for visiting" then you might know. As far as I know, it is not a well-recognized glyph, and so is probably meaningless to most visitors (just as !983 would be). That’s precisely my point. If both the glyph and the character sequence are equally meaningless to most visitors, there needs to be some way of translating them into the visitor’s chosen language. That’s always going to be easier with something you can type on a standard Latin keyboard. Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: As far as I know, it is not a well-recognized glyph, and so is probably meaningless to most visitors (just as !983 would be). I am almost certain that it is not ... at present. Maybe as a result of this thread existing more people would recognise it now than would have done before ths thread appeared in this forum. The glyph appears in the folowing two chapters of one of my novels. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/localizable_sentences_the_novel_chapter_072.pdf http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/localizable_sentences_the_novel_chapter_079.pdf Here is a link to the novel. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/novel_plus.htm Free to read, no registration sought or required. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, William Overington said: recognise *recognize Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Alfred said: *recognize Recognise. Quote Ali 🙂 Hobby photographer. Running Affinity Suite V2 on Windows 11 17" HP Envy i7 (8th Gen) & Windows 11 MS Surface Go 3 alongside MS365 (Insider Beta Channel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 39 minutes ago, Alfred said: *recognize 37 minutes ago, Ali said: Recognise. Consistency! localisable, recognise, specialised or localizable, recognize, specialized But not a mixture of the two. AdamStanislav 1 Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 19 minutes ago, Alfred said: Consistency! localisable, recognise, specialised or localizable, recognize, specialized But not a mixture of the two. There is American English, British English, and Oxford English Dictionary English. Other varietes of English also exist. The test I tend to use of whether to use -ize or -ise is that if the word derived from a word ending -ise or -ize that ends in -ization exists and has meaning, then I use -ize and -izable, but otherwise I use -ise. So localize, localizable, localization and specialize, specialization customize, customizable, customization yet recognise, recognisable and surprise. I am unsure quite where that way of deciding originated, it might be just something of my own that I used one time when I was unsure which spelling to use. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 hour ago, William Overington said: There is American English, British English, and Oxford English Dictionary English. Please observe what happens when you use these links for OED English: https://www.lexico.com/definition/recognise https://www.lexico.com/definition/recognisable Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 23 minutes ago, Alfred said: Please observe what happens when you use these links for OED English: This: (also British recognise) Petty nitpicking. Quote Ali 🙂 Hobby photographer. Running Affinity Suite V2 on Windows 11 17" HP Envy i7 (8th Gen) & Windows 11 MS Surface Go 3 alongside MS365 (Insider Beta Channel). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Ali said: Petty nitpicking. What other kind of nitpicking is there?? AdamStanislav and NotMyFault 2 Quote Alfred Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.5.1 (iPad 7th gen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamStanislav Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 5 hours ago, William Overington said: decode the QR code !193 William Overington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamStanislav Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 4 hours ago, William Overington said: I would like to know that it in practice possible to use a device to read and decode the QR code that is in the first post in this thread. That’s what I did. And I am completely puzzled by these questions: Doesn’t everyone in 2022 have a cell phone (mobile phone)? Both Android and Apple phones come with at least one camera, and an app that can both, take pictures and decode QR codes. William Overington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 26 minutes ago, AdamStanislav said: !193 Actually it should be !983 http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/A_List_of_Code_Numbers_and_English_Localizations_for_use_in_Research_on_Communication_through_the_Language_Barrier_using_encoded_Localizable_Sentences.pdf William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamStanislav Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 41 minutes ago, William Overington said: Actually it should be !983 I checked again, and this time it does say !983. Either way, I have no idea what it means. Just an exclamation point followed by three decimal digits. Something the Cold War spies would use, I guess. William Overington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, AdamStanislav said: I checked again, and this time it does say !983. Either way, I have no idea what it means. Thank you. It means, in whichever language any person chooses to localize it into, the meaning of the sentence that in English is Thank you for visting. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, William Overington said: It means, in whichever language any person chooses to localize it into, And how would one know they should do it? And if one knows, how would they do it? William Overington 1 Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.6.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.6.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wosven Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Hi all, The QR code don't seems usefull in this, but the overall page look like a drawing with the translation below (if we don't think it's only decorative): Reading the QRcode give simply another enigma, that can be frustating! (What the heck is that??? 😂) Since my brain process text nearly instantly, instead of searching my phone, unlocking it, searching for the app, trying to scan the code, and reading the result... I tend to only scan when it's important... If there's an URL below, I'll type it faster in a browser. But we can make it more intriguing: Txs_qr-code.svg William Overington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Merci beaucoup, Madame. C'est fantastique! https://products.aspose.app/barcode/recognize/qr William Wosven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 @Wosven How did you produce that please? I am thinking that !983 could be added as an extra line of text at the end, so that that could then be used as a link into a sentence.dat file for any (other) language. So a graceful fallback possibility. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/The_Format_of_the_sentence_dot_dat_files_for_use_in_Research_on_Communication_through_the_Language_Barrier_using_encoded_Localizable_Sentences.pdf William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 hour ago, walt.farrell said: And how would one know they should do it? That is a good question. 1 hour ago, walt.farrell said: And if one knows, how would they do it? They would run an app on their smartphone. The app would photograph the QR code, find the !983 then use the 983 to find a row starting 983| in a sentence.dat file for their chosen language, the display on the screen every character of that line of text tht is after the | character. Perhaps the image should have !983 as well as the QR code so that if they do not have a smartphone with a suitable app they might have a printed booklet with the code numbers, glyphs and the localized meanings in a particular language. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Overington Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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