PUBLISHER: Best practices for book layout?

[buddingphotographer]

If you were starting a new book project for a ~150 page book, how would you set up the Master Pages/layout?

Background: I've published 2 books now (such as they are), and I kept running into issues when trying to add/delete pages in the middle of the book. It's usually not too bad if I add/delete a 2-page spread, but adding/deleting 1 page causes AfPub to completely repaginate and my Master Pages get all confused and layered on top of each other in a hopeless mess. (I was using running headers, and they got ALL messed up, because the left headers then got applied to the right side...) 

Another related issue was that I had each chapter in it's own set of (linked) text frames, so I had to manually paste in each chapter from the source document. If the author wanted to make some changes that affected the length of the chapter, I had to manually insert pages and try to make everything work out. Lots of tedious work shifting things around, and making sure nothing broke. 

The author later decided she didn't want all the chapters to start on a right-side page, but it was too late to change, because deleting all the blank pages on the left caused the issues mentioned above (overlapping running headers, etc)

Here is what the Master Pages looked like:

• A 2-page spread for "chapter beginnings" [Blank on the left / Chapter Title and first paragraphs on the right]
• A basic 2-page spread for chapter text. (With page numbers and running headers)
• A 1-page "special" chapter beginning for when the left page isn't blank

I'm thinking maybe I should have put the running headers on separate Masters that are added later? Surely there's a better way of doing things? What should I have done initially in my Master Page setup that would have avoided these undesirable scenarios?

Summary. Here are the basic questions I'm wondering about:

1. What is a good, simple master page layout that won't "break" when I need to add/delete pages in the middle of the book? 
2. Is there a good way to make the entire book "flow" without breaking it up into different frames per chapter? i.e. Copy and paste the entire manuscript all at once instead of chapter-by-chapter. 
   1. (or better yet, is there a way to "place/link" the text into the book from the source doc so that when I update the text in the doc, it automatically updates in Publisher similar to the way linked images work?)

I'm open to all ideas for a better workflow that causes fewer issues in the future. Thanks in advance! 

[acajohn29]

I would also like to know how to delete specific pages one page at a time. I just spent about two months transferring my 200 page book completely from InDesign and now that this is happening it reminded me that this is EXACTLY why I transferred it to begin with! If deleting pages completely disables page numbering, that is really a shame. It took me a long time to get my page numbering the way I wanted it. If it is actually possible to delete pages and maintain overall layout, please tell me how. 

Thank you,

John

[DWright]

You can use separate master pages for the chapter header and content and assign them to the relevant pages

If you have your chapter sent to you in  PDF file format you can then use the #Add Pages Form File tool to import it and this will automatically add the required number of pages for the chapter.

@acajohn29if you use the Pages Studio you can remove single pages from the spread and if you have the page number setup on the master page assigned it will renumber the pages.

 

[R C-R]

6 hours ago, DWright said:

use the #Add Pages Form File tool

To avoid any confusion I think he means the "Add Pages from File..." item on the Document menu.

[buddingphotographer]

On 8/4/2021 at 9:37 AM, DWright said:

You can use separate master pages for the chapter header and content and assign them to the relevant pages

Thank you for chiming in! That's the conclusion I've been coming to. I'm not completely sure that it solves my problem though, wouldn't the running headers still overlap each other as pages are deleted? I'm thinking to simplify things, I should: 

• Center the page numbers on the page
• Put running headers on separate Master Pages, and apply them last, after all the pagination is more or less solidified. 

[MikeTO]

12 hours ago, buddingphotographer said:

Thank you for chiming in! That's the conclusion I've been coming to. I'm not completely sure that it solves my problem though, wouldn't the running headers still overlap each other as pages are deleted? I'm thinking to simplify things, I should: 

• Center the page numbers on the page
• Put running headers on separate Master Pages, and apply them last, after all the pagination is more or less solidified. 

It works for me without any issues. Each page of my book has two masters assigned to it, one for the things common across chapters such as text frames, and one for chapter-specific things such as the chapter name.

If I add pages (by clicking the overset text icon) at the end of a chapter before the start of a new chapter which has a different chapter master applied to it, the new pages will be inserted with the correct masters applied without impacting the next chapter. If I delete pages anywhere in a chapter, the next chapter will be unaffected. It works as you'd expect.

[acajohn29]

Thanks for your help everyone. I have worked through the issue.

[acajohn29]

No, I guess I haven't resolved it, or it's morphed into another frustrating glitch. Spinning my wheels. Now my table of contents is wrong and in spite of multiple adds/removes,  (and moving the heading to the prior, wrong page to verify that the toc adjusts), one of my subheadings, specifically formatted as "heading 2", simply will not go under the main heading it belongs with. It goes under the previous main heading unless I physically move the main heading it is under to the previous page, 84. The heading and subheading are both on page 85. in my repeatedly updated toc the subheading appears BEFORE the main heading it's physically under. I guess I have to remove the toc and make a new one, but hesitate to do so.

[acajohn29]

Spending hours and hours on this today. Now I've got a page with half the page separating paragraphs from each other. I have no clue how to adjust line spacing with this program and I haven't touched anything to make it do that. Why is one single page changing the paragraph spacing on one half of the page?

[MikeTO]

1 hour ago, acajohn29 said:

Spending hours and hours on this today. Now I've got a page with half the page separating paragraphs from each other. I have no clue how to adjust line spacing with this program and I haven't touched anything to make it do that. Why is one single page changing the paragraph spacing on one half of the page?

I think you'll need to provide a screenshot and/or sample file - I'm unsure what you mean by half the page separating paragraphs.

[acajohn29]

Gladly, here it is. 

[firstdefence]

A sample .afpub file with pages that have latest issue included would be more useful.

 

[Wosven]

A sample file, like asked by @firstdefence would help.

 

 

1 hour ago, acajohn29 said:

Gladly, here it is.

I see problem in this page, but I'm not sure it's the ones you are talking about.

"leisure" should be on the preceding page, not a widow on this page.

It seems there 2 paragraph styles, one with indent of the first line at x value, one with tabulations with indent at y value. It would look better using the first line indent everywhere.

The space between paragraphs are only on the ones using the 1st paragaph style (indented 1st line). You need to use this style on each paragraph, and if you don't want space before/after the paragraph, modify this style.

The last paragraph is incomplete.

[acajohn29]

Here's the entire book, the more I use this program the less I seem to know. I'm not going to take the time to delete everything else. It's pages 88-90 (72-74 as numbered) that are giving me difficulties. I was able to fix the paragraph spacing and naturally this caused another problem. Now my indentation/tabs are out of whack and I can't fix them. 

sample.aaia.afpub

[Old Bruce]

You have a lot of Paragraphs with the [No Style] applied as the Paragraph Style. This is bad when you have as much text as you do. Also your Paragraph Style Body, although applied, is massively overridden. This too is bad, you have no way of making changes that will be applied if the things you are changing are overridden in some but not all paragraphs.

You may be be best served by copying all the text and pasting it into a number of text files, one per chapter, or just one large text file for the entire book. Then you can set up proper Paragraph Styles (even the headings I looked at were overridden). Get rid of the ones you don't need. You have a couple of headings and a body text plus a caption, that's four paragraph styles instead of the dozen plus that you have now.

Open up the Paragraph Style from the Text Styles panel if you want to make changes, the Paragraph panel it self is great for overriding the styles and I think that is what has happened as you went through editing and writing.

Sorry but it is not a simple fix, best to start over with clean text and simple text styles.

[acajohn29]

Thanks very much, Old Bruce. Once again you were an immense help. 

[Wosven]

You need to structure more your master pages to use less of them on your pages, life will be simpler.

Use margin, grid, and work on the paragraph styles, as said by @Old Bruce.

Don't forget to check lines ending with a simple character, it usually mean there's a new line by error, etc.

For example: (I moved the images since I hadn't the font and the text take more space and pages)

sample.aaia_v2.afpub

[Nin]

Hi, Here is a link to a YT vid that is VERY helpful explaining master pages and how to set them up for various projects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5je_swyJU

 

How I build my books:
I start with pen and paper to map out what pages I want my book template to have.  This gives me an idea of what kind of master pages I might need.  ( Disclaimer:  I'm dyslexic so if I mix up sides, well, you know.)

Title Page (starts on right, usual western book format)
Copyright page (back of Title Page)
Book Info page (title, author name, country of publication, year of publication.  On Right)
Blank Page
Table of Contents pages (I usually set aside 3)
Blank Page
Chapter one page (no page numbers showing, no section name at top.  Chapter 1 is centered in top third of page.  First paragraph, first line is 1/3 down from top of page)
Text Body pages- spread.  Left page and right page have 3 text frames each.  Running Text at top for Book Name on left.  On Right, insert>section name.  This pulls the section name from the section panel.  Chapter 1 is the name of chapter 1's section.  I like page # to start here at '1'.  MIDDLE frame:  Where the texts resides.  Identical for L and R pages.  BOTTOM frame: Where I like to put the page numbers. Identical for L and R pages. 

Historical Context page:  starts on the Right, if I choose to insert one.
Index spread:  Much like the Text Body spread.

Master Pages:
1.  Title page.  Book title is centered vertical and horizontal.  I set the font, font weight and the size here.
2.  Copyright - Book Info pages.  One master page spread.  I use dedicated text frames with the set info.  Like logo, copyright wording, format of book info, etc.  When this master is applied to actual pages, I just edit the place holders with the needed text on theses interior pages, NOT the master pages.
3.  Table of contents:  Starts on the Right, but I set the Left page of spread as if the TOC continues onto the BACK of right page.  Just in case the TOC is long.
4.  Blank page - Blank page spread.  I like to use this at end of chapters so the Chapter always starts on the odd page (Right page)
5.  Chapter page:  no #, or running text at top.
6.  Text interior - Text interior spread.  Set up as described above.
7.  Historical context continuation page (left) - Historical Context start page (right).  This looks like the TOC master.
8.  Index continuation (left) - Index start page (right).  Like TOC master

So I have 8 master page spreads to set up.  I NAME each master so I know which master to apply when working fast.

Next, I figure out what my section names will be.  Usually this is just the 'Chapter _' name, but sometimes I might add a description.  eg.  Chapter 1:  The Fight. 

Up next, I figure out my Text Styles.  I'm setting a CHARACTER style for BOLD, and ITALICS.  That way, then I place the raw text into the Publisher doc, I can do a Find and Replace for bold and italics in the original text, if it exists.  BECAUSE, once I apply the body text style, the formatting pulled in from the original doc will be overwritten.  The author will be upset if their bolds and italics are missing.  In Find and Replace, I use a search for regex of each.  I replace them with the appropriate CHARACTER STYLE so they remain bold or italics when the body text PARAGRAPH style is applied.
I like my PARAGRAPH styles to be in a hierarchy, so I draw out on paper what I will need.  Once I know, I DELETE all styles so I can start fresh with mine.

Group Style:  'BASE'- here is where I set the body text font, size, leading and if text will be on the baseline or justified.  Now my PARAGRAPH styles will refer to this group style, so if I change the font, I do it here on the base so it ripples through.

PARAGRAPH Styles:
BODY-main text:  I name it like this.  Here I tell it to refer to the BASE and set the 'next' style to be 'same'.  I'm still learning about text styles, but in this one I will set the indents left and right of text frame and the indents for first line in a paragraph. (0.03in so text never touches the margins when uploaded to KDP)
If I want a space between paragraphs, I set that here too.  Flow, and baseline is set here as well.

FIRST-paragraph:  I will use this if I want to have a drop cap for the start of a chapter.  It refers to the BODY-main.  Next style is set as BODY-main.
CHAPTER-head:  This is where I input how many pts (or inches, cm, mm) I want the chapter name to appear from the top of the text frame.  I set the font and such, and set next style as the "BODY-main."  I also indicated here how much space will be between the head and the text.
QUOTES-special:  If there is a quote, song lyric, poem, portion of a letter, I set the left and right indents.  I might set the font to something else or refer to BODY-main.
LETTER-to:  If I want to have the salutation indented in a certain way or change font.
LETTER-from:  I like this to be right side indented.

And so forth.

I honestly don't know if this is the proper way to set up a novel or if this is a good workflow.  I'd love some suggestions from all the knowledgeable people on this forum on how to make this process faster, better, and logical.

Stay safe!
Nin
 

[Old Bruce]

8 hours ago, Nin said:

Master Pages:
1.  Title page.  Book title is centered vertical and horizontal.  I set the font, font weight and the size here.
2.  Copyright - Book Info pages.  One master page spread.  I use dedicated text frames with the set info.  Like logo, copyright wording, format of book info, etc.  When this master is applied to actual pages, I just edit the place holders with the needed text on theses interior pages, NOT the master pages.
3.  Table of contents:  Starts on the Right, but I set the Left page of spread as if the TOC continues onto the BACK of right page.  Just in case the TOC is long.
4.  Blank page - Blank page spread.  I like to use this at end of chapters so the Chapter always starts on the odd page (Right page)
5.  Chapter page:  no #, or running text at top.
6.  Text interior - Text interior spread.  Set up as described above.
7.  Historical context continuation page (left) - Historical Context start page (right).  This looks like the TOC master.
8.  Index continuation (left) - Index start page (right).  Like TOC master

Myself I would not bother with setting up Master Pages for the first three in your list. I would just do the work on the Actual pages. In the beginning I would apply None from the master pages' selections.

Other than that It is pretty much the same workflow. I too use the home rolled Italic and Bold Character styles via a regex Search and Destroy er... Find and Replace pass. You give the same reasons for using a Base style as I would.

One thing I do that you haven't mentioned is use a Paragraph Style's Space Before and Flow settings to start the Chapter Head 80 or 140 points down on a Right Hand (Odd Numbered) page. I think you are using a blank page to force this.