Safe Zone sizes?

[Richard S.]

Hi, when I create a new A4 document from the templates in Affinity Designer, it provides the expected 3mm bleed, BUT has a safe zone margin of 25mm.

Everywhere I have looked states that a 3mm safe zone is required for A4. Is there a specific reason that Affinity set the default safe zone / margins to 25mm instead?

Thank you all in advance.

[GarryP]

The margin is just there for you to use as a guide when you are placing things on your page.
The default 25mm margins are probably just because the software has to default to something.
You can change the margins if you want to and create your own presets/templates so you don’t have the keep changing them.

[Joachim_L]

7 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

BUT has a safe zone margin or 25mm

GarryP was too fast for me. If the margins irritate you, you can uncheck them while creating a new document.

[Richard S.]

Thanks - what I was trying to say however, is I wonder why they set them to a default of 25mm, when 3mm is generally required for the safe area / zone.. Would make more sense to set them to 3mm

[walt.farrell]

4 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Thanks - what I was trying to say however, is I wonder why they set them to a default of 25mm, when 3mm is generally required. Would make more sense to set them to 3mm

Margin and Bleed are two different things, Richard, and used for different purposes. Margins (blank space between text and edge of page) of about 1 inch (25 mm) are quite common.

[Richard S.]

Yes, I fully realise that margin and bleeds are 2 different things.

However, I never asked what the difference was, I asked why the bleed is set to the expected 3mm for printed documents, but the margins which are commonly used for setting the safe area on print documents, are set default to 25mm instead of the usual 3mm.

[MikeW]

In general use guides for a safety zone. When doing something like a poster or flier, I'll set to margins to 3mm for safety zones though. 

[Richard S.]

Mike W - yes, exactly.

That's why I was curious as to why the default margins on print templates were set to 25mm as opposed to a more useful 3mm

[MikeW]

Margins are useful for many/most other document types. One generally wouldn't set margins to 3mm, for instance in a book. Serif had to use something for defaults.

[Richard S.]

Yes, of course, but when you open an A4 Print template, I would expect 3mm bleed and 3mm safe area margins / guides.

For other documents, yes, the margins / guides could differ, but for print it seems odd 

[MikeW]

Just now, Richard S. said:

Yes, of course, but when you open an A4 Print template, I would expect 3mm bleed and 3mm safe area margins / guides.

For other documents, yes, the margins guides could be anything

Then make a template.

Of layout applications, I think QXP is the only one to make setting guides for safety zones stand out from other types of guidelines.

[Richard S.]

Mike - that's what I ended up having to do, - I opened all the provided print template documents, then changed all the margins to 3mm, and resaved them as my own templates

Would be great if Affinity could add the possibility to set the safe zones, distinct to margins / guides.

[R C-R]

5 hours ago, Richard S. said:

Hi, when I create a new A4 document from the templates in Affinity Designer, it provides the expected 3mm bleed, BUT has a safe zone margin or 25mm.

If you mean the presets, in AD 1.8.3 for Mac, the default bleed for all the built-in presets in the "Print" category is 0 mm (or 0 in). For the "Press Ready" category it is 3 mm for all the "A" sizes, & 0 mm (or 0 in) for all the rest. For all the other preset categories, it is zero.

The margins for all the built-in presets also vary by category, but the default is for them not to be enabled. Where they are non-zero values (for the two print categories) on my Mac the values are 25mm (or 1 in) for the top, left, & right margins & 30mm (or 1.25 in) for the bottom margin.

Also, if use the Document Setup > Margins tab & the "Retrieve Margin from Printer" button for that, the margins come from the printer. I assume that varies depending on the printer model, but for all of mine that button sets the left & right margins to 1 in & the top & bottom ones to 1.25 in.

I do not know what it is like in the Windows version but in the Mac version there is no mention of a 'safe zone' or anything like that in the app UI.

[MikeW]

4 minutes ago, R C-R said:

... I do not know what it is like in the Windows version but in the Mac version there is no mention of a 'safe zone' or anything like that in the app UI.

Affinity applications have no concept, or setting, of/for a safe zone.

Safe zones can/do vary depending upon the type of job, just like bleed amounts. Safe zones, like bleed, are just indicators. In the case of a safe zone, basically they say, Hey, don't have anything important from here to the page edge because it may get trimmed off.

[lacerto]

(...)

[MikeW]

Any type of print job can utilize safe zones. Just depends. For books of whatever type, say you are manually positioning elements, maybe callouts, at the outer edges of a spread. Guidelines, however they are created, make for consistency in placement. 

Now, in Q I would likely use Item Styles, one for left spreads, one for right spreads...at least before actual callout styles were introduced. 

[walt.farrell]

50 minutes ago, MikeW said:

afe zones can/do vary depending upon the type of job, just like bleed amounts. Safe zones, like bleed, are just indicators. In the case of a safe zone, basically they say, Hey, don't have anything important from here to the page edge because it may get trimmed off.

So, then, would it be correct to say that:

• Bleed provides safety from the printer/binder trimming the page too large; and
• A Safe Zone provides safety from the printer/binder trimming the page too small?

[lacerto]

(...)

[MikeW]

20 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

So, then, would it be correct to say that:

• Bleed provides safety from the printer/binder trimming the page too large; and
• A Safe Zone provides safety from the printer/binder trimming the page too small?

Yes. But the safety/bleed are a mutual print service / designer "agreement."

But...I'm bored so here goes.

Bleed provides the designer a distance away from page edges that a bled element ought to at least extend to. But is not absolutely necessary to extend a bled element to or past it. But, trimming operations are not precise. So it gives the print service leeway to trim without needing to be out of spec. One place I do business with hold a 1/16" tolerance (0.0625") but it is not a norm.

Safety zones are just the other side of the coin.

Both bleed and safety zones are an agreed/specified amount of room for the print service to remain in-spec when trimming.

[MikeW]

18 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

Certainly, but aren't they basically a variable and not something you can use e.g. as a guide for consistent alignment even on inner and outer pages of a 16-page print sheet? But certainly useful as warners if you have very narrow general margin set for your job.

But probably I'm missing the point. I was just surprised to see "margin" to be used as a synonym of safety zone instead of an aesthetic term. (On the other hand, in Nordic context there is a concept of "architect layout", where margins do not exist: the text can start right from the trimmed edge of the page, as soon as it is layed out in Futura...) 

Yep. That's Richard's conflating the two. But I think not by accident.

[Old Bruce]

4 minutes ago, MikeW said:

So it gives the print service leeway to trim without needing to be out of spec.

Doesn't even need to be trimmed. Sheet fed printers have a tolerance for position of each sheet of paper as it goes into the press.

[MikeW]

3 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Doesn't even need to be trimmed. Sheet fed printers have a tolerance for position of each sheet of paper as it goes into the press.

True, but only for sheet sizes where a design fills the whole sheet.

[MikeW]

I would be remiss to mention use cases where/when I do the same as Richard using margins as safety guides.

I'll use margins as safety guides every time with posters, single or double-sided mailers, fliers and business cards. Probably other types, too.

[Richard S.]

18 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Yep. That's Richard's conflating the two. But I think not by accident.

I think my original post was misunderstood, so I will try to rephrase it:

For an A4 document, which is destined for print output, every printer I have dealt with, asks for a 3mm bleed, and a 3mm safe zone.

Therefore, when I opened the default A4 Print template, it makes more sense to me, for it to have a 3mm bleed (which it rightly does), plus a 3mm safe area - (by way of margins).

However, the margins are set to 25mm. I know the margins are not solely for safe area designation, but if they are going to include margins, then it would make more sense to put them to use, -  to highlight the safe area, as opposed to having no safe area displayed, and pointless margins which need to be removed.

 

[MikeW]

3 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

I think my original post was misunderstood, so I will try to rephrase it:

For an A4 document, which is destined for print output, every printer I have dealt with, asks for a 3mm bleed, and a 3mm safe zone.

Therefore, when I opened the default A4 Print template, it makes more sense to me for it to have a 3mm bleed (which it rightly does), plus a 3mm safe area - by way way of margins.

However, the margins are set to 25mm. I know the margins are not solely for safe area designation, but if they are going to include margins, then it would make more sense to put them to use to highlight the safe area, as opposed to having no safe area displayed, and pointless margins which need to be removed.

But, margins are not "pointless." They serve a purpose.

You could have just set guides to the 3mm and left margins alone or set them to zero so the could be set for if/when you do want them. And I think most people would/do use them. Certainly for books and other types of printed material.

But...that said, you are using them how you want. Ain't options cool?