PDF Pass Through and Embedded Fonts

[stutes]

While the ability to edit PDFs is nice, I would also like the ability to embed a PDF without it being "translated"/"interpreted". To have "PDF pass-through". If Publisher could access the fonts embedded in the PDF, that would be AWESOME; I don't always have the fonts installed that are used in PDFs, and the entire purpose of the format is to be able to share a layout without having to install fonts to see it displayed correctly.

[Alfred]

9 minutes ago, stutes said:

While the ability to edit PDFs is nice, and would also like the ability to embed a PDF without it being "translated"/"interpreted". To have "PDF pass-through".

You can’t have PDF passthrough without interpreting the embedded fonts in order to work out what they should look like.

9 minutes ago, stutes said:

the entire purpose of the format is to be able to share a layout without having to install fonts to see it displayed correctly

As I understand it, PDF is fundamentally an output format, not originally conceived as a means of sharing content for editing.

[stutes]

@Alfred, got it.

I just need Publisher to show and print PDFs as they do in Preview, Acrobat, etc. If there is some other, more correct way of referring to this, please let me know.

Quote

As I understand it, PDF is fundamentally an output format, not originally conceived as a means of sharing content for editing. 

Perhaps. We may just be using different terms to express the same idea; an output format that shares the layout without having to install fonts. I never said anything about the format originally being conceived for editing; in fact, I don't think that is the intent of the format at all; it is quite the opposite, as I believe the format is intended to lock down the layout so that when you send it to print houses or clients, they see it as it is meant to look, without having to worry if they have the fonts installed on their computer. Which belies part of my frustration with Publisher....

Edited September 9, 2019 by stutes
Responding to Alred's second comment, which I originally missed

[Catshill]

I need it too and judging by the number of posts (including useful suggestions for workarounds) on these forums so do others.

[StainX]

As much as i love AP, i can't work with it if i'm not able to place client provided ads in there.
Also what i noticed, you can't set a stroke around linked documents...

So, yeah keep looking forward to those pdf features!

[Catshill]

2 hours ago, StainX said:

As much as i love AP, i can't work with it if i'm not able to place client provided ads in there.

My workaround is to open the PDF and export it out again but setting the option to not embed fonts. In other words, I convert the fonts to curves.

[Alfred]

5 minutes ago, Catshill said:

My workaround is to open the PDF and export it out again but setting the option to not embed fonts. In other words, I convert the fonts to curves.

If you don’t have the fonts installed, other fonts will be substituted when you open the document in an Affinity app, so any conversion to curves will be based on the substitute fonts. Until the Affinity apps are able to interpret embedded fonts, there’s no way to do this properly without a third-party application.

[Fixx]

17 minutes ago, Catshill said:

My workaround is to open the PDF and export it out again but setting the option to not embed fonts. In other words, I convert the fonts to curves.

As @Alfred said "no-embed" is different from "convert-to-curves". No-embed means document fonts are always substituted – that was common in olden days when it was thought it is OK to use common PDF set of fonts and the next reader would anyway have the same set of Acrobat fonts.

Convert to curves is OK and resolves these problems. It is just extra step and unnecessarily complicated one. 

[Alfred]

51 minutes ago, Fixx said:

in olden days when it was thought it is OK to use common PDF set of fonts

It’s still OK, but that set comprises only fourteen fonts from five font families (Courier, Helvetica, Times, Symbol, and Zapf Dingbats) so it’s rather limiting.

[Catshill]

18 hours ago, Alfred said:

If you don’t have the fonts installed, other fonts will be substituted when you open the document in an Affinity app, so any conversion to curves will be based on the substitute fonts. Until the Affinity apps are able to interpret embedded fonts, there’s no way to do this properly without a third-party application.

To clarify I open the PDF in an app (non Serif) that does display embedded fonts and create (print) from there.

[Honken]

This is so needed and a must have for any publishing program. 

[stutes]

On 9/10/2019 at 6:14 AM, Catshill said:

My workaround is to open the PDF and export it out again but setting the option to not embed fonts. In other words, I convert the fonts to curves.

@Catshill, what do you open and export in?

[stutes]

On 9/10/2019 at 3:36 AM, StainX said:

Also what i noticed, you can't set a stroke around linked documents...

Yeah, I've noticed that too. To get this to work, I first create an image box, and then place the linked document into the image box.

[Catshill]

12 hours ago, stutes said:

@Catshill, what do you open and export in?

It depends as there is no magic solution for me...

I open in a pdf reader and print to pdf using a driver that has the option to not embed fonts. The Microsoft printer driver appears to do this by default and gives reliable results. Another option if the pdf route does not work is to use a pdf to png conversion tool. 

Not ideal and really looking for pdf pass through to be implemented in Affinity.

 

[Fixx]

"Not embed fonts" is not the same as "convert to curves".

No embed assumes document uses common fonts and if they are not found reader replaces them.

[Honken]

Still no solution for this feature? Would be as simple (on the interface side) to have a button "non editable import"  - or if you open a pdf you can edit it (as is now) or if you mount a pdf it show the font that is embedded (non editable) .... I'm still waiting. 

[Alfred]

48 minutes ago, Honken said:

Would be as simple (on the interface side) to have a button "non editable import"

It might be that simple on the interface side, but ‘under the hood’ it requires the Affinity apps to have the ability to interpret embedded fonts.

[Honken]

46 minutes ago, Alfred said:

It might be that simple on the interface side, but ‘under the hood’ it requires the Affinity apps to have the ability to interpret embedded fonts.

Of course. I guess it has something to do with patents and/or difficulties that Affinity don't speak about. An under the hood solution might be to interpret all fonts as curves. But it's not our task to solve it nor to "defend" the company. It´s a feature thats common, to mount existing PDFs from AD-companies in a magazine (like in my case and many others), and they, in some cases, have their own fonts and graphic guidelines that you must keep. 

[Catshill]

Since I posted my workaround I now tend to use the Ghostscript method for converting fonts to curves.

[Honken]

10 hours ago, Catshill said:

Since I posted my workaround I now tend to use the Ghostscript method for converting fonts to curves.

Great, but we have to stick to Indesign for now at my company, but I use Affinity myself for all my own designs, I love their "feel". 

[sb101]

1.9 beta has an passthrough option for placed pdfs now