Blue histogram

[Pete G]

The histogram in both the Photo and Develop Persona is blue where I would expect it to be white. The individual RGB channels all display properly but where they overlap the histogram is blue. I have version 1.7.1.404 and have just downloaded it. Any ideas why it's like this? It's not really useable as it is.

[walt.farrell]

In 1.7 Serif changed the histogram color that is used for (I think) overall luminance from White to Blue.

As far as I know they have never explained why, but it seems to have been intentional.

[Pete G]

Thanks. I didn't realise that. There doesn't seem to be a way to change it back again. Which is a shame because it's really not easy to distinguish from the B channel histogram.

[firstdefence]

Would love to hear an explanation, sounds more like a cockup than a conscious choice, either way I'm all ears...

[Dan C]

This was an intended change for 1.7, however we've raised it as a potential issue with our developers after a few users - such as yourself - have expressed that they aren't a fan of the change.

Personally I prefer a white overlay, the developers have commented on the report stating the reason for this was the white overlay confused certain users or they requested the colour to be changed. Of course it is impossible to please everyone, but we're still looking at other options for how to improve this in the future. 

[Alfred]

26 minutes ago, Dan C said:

Of course it is impossible to please everyone

Couldn’t there be a checkbox for this, or a Preferences setting?

[Dan C]

This is one of the suggestions in the dev thread, and IMO one of the best options we could implement. Unfortunately I don't have the final say here, but I'll certainly make sure your voice is heard  

[walt.farrell]

@Dan C: If it is going to remain as a blue overlay, the documentation team should fix the images in the Help, which currently show the old version:

Also, the Help should explain what that overlay is, whichever color it remains. Currently it does not mention it.

[Dan C]

8 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

the documentation team should fix the images in the Help, which currently show the old version

Thanks Walt, this has already been raised in the development log, they've confirmed they'll change this once we have a final decision.

8 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

the Help should explain what that overlay is, whichever color it remains. Currently it does not mention it.

Good point, I'll raise this with the team, thanks  

[Adam 005]

Omg after pulling my hair out over the poor histogram in the older versions now I can barely  under stand or read this new blue version.

Can this be sorted in any way?

[Dan C]

Hi Adam 005,

Welcome to the forums

There's no option to change the current histogram, although this is still being looked at by our developers.

[Adam 005]

10 hours ago, Dan C said:

Hi Adam 005,

Welcome to the forums

There's no option to change the current histogram, although this is still being looked at by our developers.

So to clear up my confusion is the bit that's now blue what would have been white previously. 

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Adam 005 said:

So to clear up my confusion is the bit that's now blue what would have been white previously. 

Yes.

[Jaff25]

I don't know if Serif already make a decision on the histogram color. But I vote to change it back to white, it is very dificult for me to see the blue histogram. White was much easier on the eyes.

[0Kami]

I just downloaded the latest version and the histogram is still blue ... maybe the developers (as compared to photographers/photo editors?) will change it back to white (or maybe a light gray?) with the next update.

We can hope.

[walt.farrell]

18 minutes ago, 0Kami said:

I just downloaded the latest version and the histogram is still blue .

That's what you should have expected, as none of the betas had it changed, nor did the Release Notes indicate it was changed.

[James Ritson]

The reason it was changed from white to blue, I believe, is because users were mistaking it for a representation of luminosity—it’s not. It’s describing the addition of the three separate red, green and blue histograms (or the overlap, if you like). If it was a luminosity histogram, the result would often look very different to the RGB histogram since it’s calculated from a weighted average of each pixel's RGB data with more precedence given to the green channel.

As an alternative for the time being, I could suggest trying the intensity waveform found on the Scope panel—this gives you a plot of the luminance values independent of any colour information within the document/image.

[0Kami]

James Ritson, thank you for the explanation of why it may have been changed. However, why did the developers use a shade of blue (which already appears on the histogram) rather than a grey (if some people found white confusing)? I believe most people's issue is with the visual user interface aspect of the blue color rather any "help" the blue color might suggest/offer for it's meaning or use. 

And, although I appreciate your suggestion of using the waveform . . . wow, apparently my mind doesn't work on that level of perception.

At any rate, I love your videos. They are always well-presented and informative. Thank you.

PS - Please keep the videos coming!!!!!

[James Ritson]

1 hour ago, 0Kami said:

James Ritson, thank you for the explanation of why it may have been changed. However, why did the developers use a shade of blue (which already appears on the histogram) rather than a grey (if some people found white confusing)? I believe most people's issue is with the visual user interface aspect of the blue color rather any "help" the blue color might suggest/offer for it's meaning or use. 

And, although I appreciate your suggestion of using the waveform . . . wow, apparently my mind doesn't work on that level of perception.

At any rate, I love your videos. They are always well-presented and informative. Thank you.

PS - Please keep the videos coming!!!!!

Hi 0Kami, I think in this instance even grey would have been misleading. A possible alternative approach which we've discussed is to represent the additive secondary colours (yellow, cyan and magenta) where the channels overlap rather than the singular blue.

Regarding the waveform, it's not too dissimilar so don't be put off! Look at it vertically rather than horizontally: the bottom represents 0 IRE (pure black) and the top represents 100 IRE (pure white). You can easily see how brightness is distributed horizontally across your document/image and whether it's clipped.

Thanks for your comment on the videos. It's been busy recently and production of new videos has taken a back seat, but hopefully that's going to change soon!

[R C-R]

4 hours ago, James Ritson said:

A possible alternative approach which we've discussed is to represent the additive secondary colours (yellow, cyan and magenta) where the channels overlap rather than the singular blue.

What about just a thick line rather than a filled in curve?

[Greyfox]

5 hours ago, James Ritson said:

A possible alternative approach which we've discussed is to represent the additive secondary colours (yellow, cyan and magenta) where the channels overlap rather than the singular blue.

In the v1.7.3.481 Help file, the Histogram is shown with only 3 overlapping translucent colors for the RGB channels.

The actual Histogram seems to have two tones for each of the RGB channels, plus either one or two tones for the "overlap" graph.

For me there are just too many colors crowded into such a small area. I would prefer to see it like it is in the  help file, without the two toning,

I'm not sure how much benefit there is having the additional "overlap" graph, but if it is thought to be really necessary I would prefer it to be a single sharp line in a color that is a clear contrast to the RGB channel colors

 

[walt.farrell]

In Photo 1.7.3.481 (and 1.8.0.486 beta) on Windows the Histogram Panel Help still shows:

I've complained before that if they're going to leave it blue in the product they need to fix that Help example.

[Greyfox]

11 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

In Photo 1.7.3.481 (and 1.8.0.486 beta) on Windows the Histogram Panel Help still shows:

 

How very strange.  I'm definitely on released version 1.7.3.481, but the histogram in the help file is as per the screen shot in my previous post, without the white graph you show in yours. How can that happen?

 

[walt.farrell]

27 minutes ago, Greyfox said:

How very strange.  I'm definitely on released version 1.7.3.481, but the histogram in the help file is as per the screen shot in my previous post, without the white graph you show in yours. How can that happen?

 

That's an excellent question, especially as it seems you're also on Windows. The shape of the Histogram you show from the Help is also completely different from mine.

[Alfred]

59 minutes ago, Greyfox said:

How very strange.  I'm definitely on released version 1.7.3.481, but the histogram in the help file is as per the screen shot in my previous post, without the white graph you show in yours. How can that happen?

It seems to depend on the interface language. If I switch from UK English to US English I get @walt.farrell's version of the histogram.