Why is there a default “Space after Paragraph” when creating a new text frame?

[typotaurus]

When creating a new text frame a default “Space after Paragraph” of 12 pt is created. I think this should be 0 pt.

 

[000]

Agree. It's a bit annoying.

[Old Bruce]

Change it by going to Edit > Defaults > Synchronize from Selection

and then Edit > Defaults > Save

Obviously this must be done after you have set up the paragraph (not the text frame) they way you want it.

[GaryLearnTech]

Oh, that's a good one.  Thanks @Old Bruce, I'd not come across that functionality before.

[Alfred]

I think the default ‘Space after Paragraph’ is there because it’s needed if there’s no first-line indent.

[Fixx]

On 6/29/2019 at 4:31 PM, Alfred said:

I think the default ‘Space after Paragraph’ is there because it’s needed if there’s no first-line indent.

Because Word defaults using space between paragraphs instead first line indents... Space is ok for memos and correspondence but documents of typographical quality should use indents as default. (Ok, that was simplifying the matter 

[Marubi]

So you have to set it up for every document?

If so...MORE than annoying.

[walt.farrell]

16 minutes ago, Marubi said:

So you have to set it up for every document?

If so...MORE than annoying.

No. You can set it up in your default text styles.

[fde101]

I agree with @walt.farrell, this setting should come from the text styles, not from the individual paragraph settings which are meant to override those styles locally for exceptions.

1. Create a new document with the basic characteristics you generally use (page size, etc.)
2. Right-click "Base" in the Text Styles panel, choose "Edit Base"
3. Go to the Paragraph -> Spacing page using the list on the left
4. Change "Space after" to zero (0).
5. Make any other desired changes to the base style (the other styles inherit from this style so except for those properties they override, changes to the Base style will apply throughout the document automatically by default).
6. File -> Export As Template and save the template to a templates folder you create at a convenient location
7. File -> New
8. Select Templates along the left
9. Click the add folder button at the bottom of the list
10. Select the folder where you saved the template
11. Create a new document using your template

From now on your template should be readily available with the text styles already set up in the desired manner.  Additional templates can obviously be created and saved to that same folder to give you appropriate starting points for your projects.

[walt.farrell]

4 minutes ago, fde101 said:

From now on your template should be readily available with the text styles already set up in the desired manner.

Or, instead of creating a template, you can just set your modified text styles as the defaults for all future new documents. It's an option in the Text Styles panel settings.

[GarryP]

I was about to suggest that but I’ve just tried it and couldn’t figure out how to set the “No Style” style - the one which new text frames use by default - to have a 0pt “Space After Paragraph”.
Setting a 0pt “Space After Paragraph” for the Base style seems to have no effect on the “No Style” formatting.
Is it possible to set the formatting for the “No Style” style?

[walt.farrell]

3 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I was about to suggest that but I’ve just tried it and couldn’t figure out how to set the “No Style” style - the one which new text frames use by default - to have a 0pt “Space After Paragraph”.
Setting a 0pt “Space After Paragraph” for the Base style seems to have no effect on the “No Style” formatting.
Is it possible to set the formatting for the “No Style” style?

Make the changes via the Paragraph panel. Synchronize Defaults.

I'm not sure if that interacts with the Default Text Styles, or only with the application Defaults, though. I would need to do some experiments.

[GarryP]

Just tried it, and while it seemed to work for the current document, closing the document and creating a new one brought the 12pt spacing back, whereas the people wanting it to be zero seem to asking for it to be the default for all documents.

[walt.farrell]

34 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Just tried it, and while it seemed to work for the current document, closing the document and creating a new one brought the 12pt spacing back, whereas the people wanting it to be zero seem to asking for it to be the default for all documents.

Did you also Save the defaults, or just Synchronize them?

[GarryP]

Here’s the process I went through:

1. Create a new document;
2. Add a new Frame Text layer;
3. Add Filler Text to the layer;
4. Go to the Paragraph Panel;
5. Change the “Space After Paragraph” setting to 0pt;
6. Press the “Synchronise Defaults from Selection” button on the Toolbar;
7. Go to the “Text Styles” Panel;
8. Choose “Save Styles as Default” from the panel menu;
9. Close the document;
10. Create a new document;
11. Add a new Frame Text layer;
12. Add Filler Text to the layer.

...and the “Space After Paragraph” is back to 12pt.

If I’m not doing one or more somethings that should be done and/or doing the wrong thing(s) then you’ll need to tell me.

[walt.farrell]

7 minutes ago, GarryP said:

If I’m not doing one or more somethings that should be done and/or doing the wrong thing(s) then you’ll need to tell me.

I think you've shown that the "No Style" styles aren't saved as part of the Default Styles.

That means you'll need to Edit > Defaults > Save after you Edit > Defaults > Synchronize from Selection, and you'll have to depend on the application defaults being changed by that operation. Or you'll have to use Templates as @fde101 suggested. Or you'll have to use Text Styles rather than using "No Style".

[GarryP]

Note: It’s not me that’s actually wanting to do this; I’m just trying to figure out how to do the thing you suggested.

I think you’re right that the “No Style” style is more like an absence of a style which therefore can’t be modified – the user can’t modify something that doesn’t ‘exist’.

Templates, as suggested, sounds like the best way for multiple documents where the text formatting should be consistent.

[walt.farrell]

11 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I think you’re right that the “No Style” style is more like an absence of a style which therefore can’t be modified

I think it can be modified, and saved by using the Edit > Defaults dialog.

But it's complicated to distinguish between the Tool/Frame defaults and the "No Style" settings.