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For video editing there's loads of choice from DaVinci's Resolve down but for DTP and photo editing the options seem to be far more limited. Personally I can get by with Corel's AfterShot for RAW pre-processing and GIMP, but I am not a professional.

This is a catch 22 situation.

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Just now, Pipeliner said:

many errors appear that don't make much sense.

That's true.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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16 hours ago, Pariah73 said:

all these years of Linux and I had never heard of PageStream lol nice!

I remember it from the days of the Amiga. The only Professional DTP package really worth having on that platform and along with Typesmith it was a very nice product.

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While I realize it is not looking promising for a Linux version of Affinity products at the moment, I do hope you will keep it in mind. I work for a Visual Effects company in Wellington, NZ. We have approximately 1300 artists and developers who use Linux as a primary pipeline environment. We spend a lot of money of licensing software, so I would strongly disagree with anyone who says that Linux is for hobbyists and that we wouldn't buy software.

Our software licensing includes a fair chunk of Adobe licensing. We also have a lot of users who would like access to a program like Photoshop, but their departments cannot justify the annual spend for Adobe licensing. We also keep a lot of older machines so that the artists who require Adobe software have machines to run Windows software on. This increases both our power consumption and maintenance / support costs.

We are one of a large marketplace of Visual Effects companies who must be in a similar position, all using Linux for their primary pipeline.

We do have a few users who are dyed in the wool Photoshop users, as that is their bread and butter and has been for years, but we also have a lot of users who regularly pick up new software and are generally very happy to experiment.

Please keep us in mind before you write off the idea of Linux versions of your software.

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On 7/4/2019 at 2:58 PM, OS1 said:

For video editing there's loads of choice from DaVinci's Resolve down but for DTP and photo editing the options seem to be far more limited. Personally I can get by with Corel's AfterShot for RAW pre-processing and GIMP, but I am not a professional.

This is a catch 22 situation.

@OS1, there are quite a few competent RAW image processors for Linux, three desktop publishing softwares that I know of and quite a few native photo/image editors including, but not limited to, Pixeluvo, Fotoxx, PhotoFlare, PencilSheep, Nomacs, Krita and so on. I don't think the Linux situation is entirely bleak and it's much better than it used to be.

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1 hour ago, Patrick Connor said:

@Matt Nash

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums :) 

That does sound like quite the sizable company you have there. Thanks for dropping by. Have you tried Affinity on any platform?

@Patrick, if you haven't already, I suggest that you check out photographer Joe Cristina's YouTube channel where he's currently doing a series of "Cutting the Cord" videos about options for migrating away from a certain cloudy service provider. I think they are both informative and entertaining videos and the Affinity products do rather well. 

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1 hour ago, Snapseed said:

if you haven't already,...

:) See my comment here (and elsewhere)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De5Xd0MqVxo&lc=Ugy2CAgXFjtks_2qEx54AaABAg.8w2PpqDTciG8w5abI0zdWk

I am following with interest as to whether he goes back to Adobe or remains unsubscribed

 


Patrick Connor
Serif (Europe) Ltd.

Latest releases on each platform 

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On 6/27/2019 at 3:54 AM, spacedrone808 said:

Gimp is not an option - it is a pain.

Have you tried Krita?  Slightly different focus and thus toolset, but some seem to prefer it.

 

On 6/28/2019 at 6:53 PM, Michael S Harvey said:

Open BSD could be a good alternative for Serif to look at as Mac OS is based on a form of BSD.

At the application API level for a GUI-oriented program, BSD vs. Linux would make a negligible difference.  It would mostly be the graphical toolkit that would come into play.  If porting from the Mac, the more beneficial comparison would be with the GNUstep toolkit; while if porting the Windoze version, WINE (as a library, not an emulator) might be a better choice.

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18 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Have you tried Krita?  Slightly different focus and thus toolset, but some seem to prefer it.

Actually, that's specialized in digital painting. Not really an image editor (which PS, AP and Gimp are). And while I had some slight doubt about where Krita was going in the future,  one of the authors of the app confirmed (actually in person !  :)to me this to be so. So, is a bit apples to oranges. Yep, you can do some slight image editing in Krita, but is clearly not its focus. In the other side, in APhoto you can do quite some digital painting ( I've already done stuff of the kind in 1.7, and quite liking it. Still corners to polish, but is in the good path now).


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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On 6/8/2019 at 11:59 AM, SrPx said:

It's still totally there, also for Blender.

To be fair, there's really no such thing as an entirely intuitive, easy to pick up and use 3D editor. If you were to take a stark newbie, set them down in front of Max, Maya, Modo, and Blender, and tell them to make a little house in each one, after everything's said and done, they're going to tell you that the experience was like choosing between four different ways of getting punched in the face. They're all pretty esoteric, and not very friendly.

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8 hours ago, Matt Nash said:

While I realize it is not looking promising for a Linux version of Affinity products at the moment, I do hope you will keep it in mind. I work for a Visual Effects company in Wellington, NZ. We have approximately 1300 artists and developers who use Linux as a primary pipeline environment. We spend a lot of money of licensing software, so I would strongly disagree with anyone who says that Linux is for hobbyists and that we wouldn't buy software.

Our software licensing includes a fair chunk of Adobe licensing. We also have a lot of users who would like access to a program like Photoshop, but their departments cannot justify the annual spend for Adobe licensing. We also keep a lot of older machines so that the artists who require Adobe software have machines to run Windows software on. This increases both our power consumption and maintenance / support costs.

We are one of a large marketplace of Visual Effects companies who must be in a similar position, all using Linux for their primary pipeline.

We do have a few users who are dyed in the wool Photoshop users, as that is their bread and butter and has been for years, but we also have a lot of users who regularly pick up new software and are generally very happy to experiment.

Please keep us in mind before you write off the idea of Linux versions of your software.

People tend to discount the viability and pull of Linux, only because it's Consumer Desktop presence is low.

Market share of the OS doesn't really mean all that much compared to business strategy. To use one internet graph to as the sole metric to gauge market opportunity seems downright silly. I work at Red Hat and we make multiple billions of dollars on Linux and Open Source technology. Linux IS the infrastructure of the internet and it's production pipeline capability is strong (as you know).

What it actually says to me, is that it's not Linux that is the hobbyist software, but that Serifs products are the hobbyist software.

From my perspective, Serif is a tiny fish in an enormous pond on Windows and has some seriously apt competitors on MacOS (Sketch being the standout that has the Mindshare).

Linux is a bit more Blue Ocean, where an application of Affinity's level of power and, more importantly, design paradigm is not served by any current packages. The real opportunity is to become the defacto package on Linux for Design, similarly to how Blender is the 3D package. This is an opportunity open for any company or FOSS package too, it just depends on who steps up. I doubt it will be Serif though.

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Quote

To be fair, there's really no such thing as an entirely intuitive, easy to pick up and use 3D editor.

I do agree.

But.... more the case of 3D ( Being a 2D/3D grunt,  I always thought (and think) it introduces way more complexity for a graphic worker than 2D), in the full scope all those packages go for, is a very deep world (requires a ton of knowledge and training, no matter the app) , complex, with tons of small and big things to learn and master. So, IMO it's way harder to build an intuitive UI that has to concentrate and organize all that and still be functional for pro work.

Indeed, often the more you approach to intuitive for newbies, you force a loss in speed for work for pros. And / or have to remove capabilities from the UI to not overwhelm newcomers (I believe Blender 2.8 is after that, setting several levels of complexity in the UI, which the user can toggle on/off, if I recall well (I'm not interested in "simplifying" the UI now, of course). It's an old concept in apps, setting the "pro" or "newbie" UI/config set/etc.)

The closest things I have seen in doing an easy to learn UI in 3D, have been Cinema 4D (but IMO, very slow as an UI for certain things of everyday work, compared to other UIs) and most definitely, SketchUP (But that one has gone now subscription mode :S ) . I'm all for UI-less viewports where I handle a lot with keyboard+mouse shortcuts, as it always was faster for me (Blender, Wings 3D, even in certain degree, Photoshop). But that can be extremely intimidating for a newbie. Case in point of  the opposite is Cinema 4D and the old Truespace, where all was an icon with tooltips, and very visual, everything.

IMO, for any freelancer (full time or not, but specially full time, as wont have an extra salary to help with large sums), it only makes sense now Blender. It covers every field, and you can compensate with other extra utilities where it still lacks a bit.  Of course, if can pay the 250 bucks a month of Autodesk's Max or Maya, then your clients are paying quite well if that overhead cost is non significant to whoever. So, as always, is a game of numbers. I personally dislike subscriptions, so even if I had that kindda clients, I wouldn't go there... (plus, learnt to love Blender).

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Quote

What it actually says to me, is that it's not Linux that is the hobbyist software, but that Serifs products are the hobbyist software.

First, no it's not. Is not hobbyists-only software (it's very good for them, though). IMO its focus is clearly the pros.

Secondly, you are considering the network/system related field, as the large business to consider.  While their interest is obviously in the graphic professionals. And while there's a good chunk using linux for VFX, film, etc, for the main fields these 3 apps focus on (I'd say is photography, DTP and graphic design in general, illustration) is far from being the case that Linux has any significant chunk of the pro user base compared to Mac and Windows, currently.

Quote

From my perspective, Serif is a tiny fish in an enormous pond on Windows and has some seriously apt competitors on MacOS (Sketch being the standout that has the Mindshare).

A tiny fish who made a very serious set of alternatives for graphic design/illustration, photography and general image editing, and hopefully now (or soon) publishing. Which is even having more diffusion as an alternative than the good old Corel Draw. In my book that's very far from being a tiny fish. At least in the field that counts for Serif, graphic editing for several fields, not that the amount of gamers or Office users affects its business (well, it does add up, as in the end it's all related in one way or the other).

Sketch is mostly a prototype design tool, extremely focused in that, prototyping for webs and apps. Is far from being (well, it is not, full stop) a design tool for print, or more complex graphic design other than prototyping.  And indeed, being heavily challenged now by Figma and Invision (but again, those are also for prototyping, with the advantage of more capability for working in group and other advantages). 
 

Quote

Linux is a bit more Blue Ocean, where an application of Affinity's level of power and, more importantly, design paradigm is not served by any current packages. 

So.... not so much of a "hobbyist software" , huh ?  ;) :) 

Don't get me wrong, I would welcome Serif's port to Linux. But as much as I would welcome (maybe more, as I believe is more power to Linux) a FOSS of the level of Serif's, in Linux (even more, ported as well to Win/Mac as well, as I believe that matter is heavily behind the success of Blender, not staying in Linux-only, as the majority of graphic workers (out of VFX/film)  is in the other two. It would have damaged greatly its diffusion.

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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47 minutes ago, LucasKA said:

What it actually says to me, is that it's not Linux that is the hobbyist software, but that Serifs products are the hobbyist software.

I'd say Serif's reticence to target Linux is mostly due to that platform being a weak option among their target demographic. They pander mostly to the print, advertisement, web design, and Photography crowds, which are strongest on Macs, have a solid base on Windows, and are almost nonexistent on Linux. The one group that's strong on Linux that the Affinity line might appeal to, the 3D pros and enthusiasts, likely only make up a fractional portion of Serif's entire audience.

You could say that the major reason why the above mentioned people aren't strong on Linux is due to a lack of a good choice of programs that cater to them there, the chicken and egg argument. It's very possible that Serif releasing the Affinity line could cause a number of people to flock to Linux. I could see how it would appeal to web designers, considering it's a 'nix OS, with all the nice 'nix OS features they know and love, that's built to support coding from the ground up. Being able to do design work there as well would be perfect for them. Straight up digital graphics designers would like it too, since they're usually not all that concerned about the OS, so much as the programs they use. There's a lot of potential for them to make a ton of money on Linux.

...but it's all theoretical. It could be a massive success, making them unexpected millions, or it could fall flat on its face, losing them tons of money in an attempt that garners them no extra support. Considering Serif is a pretty small company, already supporting three programs across two platforms, they've probably come to the conclusion that the consequences of failure are just too high for them to take, even for the potential rewards

It sucks, sure. I'd love to have the Affinity suite on Linux. It'd provide me the perfect excuse to happily abandon Windows were they to do so. But it's obviously not gonna happen anytime soon, so...meh.

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42 minutes ago, SrPx said:

First, no it's not. Is not hobbyists-only software (it's very good for them, though). IMO its focus is clearly the pros.

Secondly, you are considering the network/system related field, as the large business to consider.  While their interest is obviously in the graphic professionals. And while there's a good chunk using linux for VFX, film, etc, for the main fields these 3 apps focus on (I'd say is photography, DTP and graphic design in general, illustration) is far from being the case that Linux has any significant chunk of the pro user base compared to Mac and Windows, currently.

A tiny fish who made a very serious set of alternatives for graphic design/illustration, photography and general image editing, and hopefully now (or soon) publishing. Which is even having more diffusion as an alternative than the good old Corel Draw. In my book that's very far from being a tiny fish. At least in the field that counts for Serif, graphic editing for several fields, not that the amount of gamers or Office users affects its business (well, it does add up, as in the end it's all related in one way or the other).

Sketch is mostly a prototype design tool, extremely focused in that, prototyping for webs and apps. Is far from being (well, it is not, full stop) a design tool for print, or more complex graphic design other than prototyping.  And indeed, being heavily challenged now by Figma and Invision (but again, those are also for prototyping, with the advantage of more capability for working in group and other advantages). 
 

So.... not so much of a "hobbyist software" , huh ?  ;) :) 

Don't get me wrong, I would welcome Serif's port to Linux. But as much as I would welcome (maybe more, as I believe is more power to Linux) a FOSS of the level of Serif's, in Linux (even more, ported as well to Win/Mac as well, as I believe that matter is heavily behind the success of Blender, not staying in Linux-only, as the majority of graphic workers (out of VFX/film)  is in the other two. It would have damaged greatly its diffusion.|
 

 

Too bad Serif is a super closed company. I'd be interested in the metrics of volume seat licenses (100 or more) vs single licenses for Affinity Designer. I contend it's much higher on the latter, and I am going to say I misspoke about "Hobbyist", but rather it's not "Enterprise" level. I've yet to run across any Affinity products in the wild, and I've worked at some decent sized companies that are very design heavy. The only people I've run across using it, is hobbyists and freelancers that have a choice. Pros might be the target, but is it making headway in that department? I'd venture to say that Affinity Designer has a similar marketshare to the Linux Desktop. That doesn't make it not worth looking at though, now does it?

I'm basing it a lot on the use case of Blender. Blender is such good, creative software, that enterprise VFX houses not only use it, they've even migrated to the Linux platform for their asset pipelines. It's another benefit that it's open source, so internal tooling and pipelines can be developed around it.

Anyway, I have no real interest in petitioning Serif to port there program to Linux, I know a fools errand. I do know that I will drop AD the moment there's a package on Linux that serves my workflow.

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45 minutes ago, Renzatic said:

I'd say Serif's reticence to target Linux is mostly due to that platform being a weak option among their target demographic. They pander mostly to the print, advertisement, web design, and Photography crowds, which are strongest on Macs, have a solid base on Windows, and are almost nonexistent on Linux. The one group that's strong on Linux that the Affinity line might appeal to, the 3D pros and enthusiasts, likely only make up a fractional portion of Serif's entire audience.

You could say that the major reason why the above mentioned people aren't strong on Linux is due to a lack of a good choice of programs that cater to them there, the chicken and egg argument. It's very possible that Serif releasing the Affinity line could cause a number of people to flock to Linux. I could see how it would appeal to web designers, considering it's a 'nix OS, with all the nice 'nix OS features they know and love, that's built to support coding from the ground up. Being able to do design work there as well would be perfect for them. Straight up digital graphics designers would like it too, since they're usually not all that concerned about the OS, so much as the programs they use. There's a lot of potential for them to make a ton of money on Linux.

...but it's all theoretical. It could be a massive success, making them unexpected millions, or it could fall flat on its face, losing them tons of money in an attempt that garners them no extra support. Considering Serif is a pretty small company, already supporting three programs across two platforms, they've probably come to the conclusion that the consequences of failure are just too high for them to take, even for the potential rewards

It sucks, sure. I'd love to have the Affinity suite on Linux. It'd provide me the perfect excuse to happily abandon Windows were they to do so. But it's obviously not gonna happen anytime soon, so...meh.

There's no way to answer that chicken/egg reliably.

Wether or not it would would move people to Linux is the wrong question IMO, but rather, does it solve a need that enough Linux users have well enough for people to pay for it, and would that revenue be enough to justify development?
 

 

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22 minutes ago, LucasKA said:

. I've yet to run across any Affinity products in the wild,

Is yet a bit too soon. Yet though, I was shocked, recently, to discover a pair of job offers (different companies and separated in time) this early step being rare not only in my country, but specially in my area. Stuff specially tech related arrives here (to be required in job offers, used at companies) like 2 years after is established in the main countries (sadly, some companies NEVER adopt "new" tech) advanced in IT, maybe 1 or 1.5 years in the capital city. So, even when is not yet a common thing out there! I believe the reason is that mid/small businesses with a certain number of seats, do see the advantage (when budgets are so low) of 15 -20 seats with Affinity instead of cloud subscriptions (heard that the subscription price is being doubled for most people (ie, the 10 $ becoming 20$) , sooner or later, but I didn't fully understood that about for some people it happened, while not for others... :o  ).


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Just now, Patrick Connor said:

@Matt Nash

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums :) 

That does sound like quite the sizable company you have there. Thanks for dropping by. Have you tried Affinity on any platform?

I have recently purchased Photo and Designer for Windows after they were recommended to me by a colleague. It is not really my area, as I am on the IT side, rather than an artist. However, if the software can do what our Artists need for the fraction of the cost of Photoshop it has to be worth a look.

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55 minutes ago, LucasKA said:

Wether or not it would would move people to Linux is the wrong question IMO, but rather, does it solve a need that enough Linux users have well enough for people to pay for it, and would that revenue be enough to justify development?
 

 

It should be a consideration, given that Linux's small, specifically inclined userbase is one of the major reasons why Serif doesn't yet consider it worthwhile to port their software. Given that most of the usual Linux crowd doesn't count graphic design as one of their primary concerns (they have GIMP for all their lightweight, just-get-it-done needs), for Serif to flip on their current opinion on the matter, they'd have to see the draw both Linux and the Affinity suite together would have on people.

Given that there are a goodly number of people sick of Windows 10's forced updates, and occasionally suspect data culling habits, alongside Apple treating the Mac as an aside, something they have to throw a bone to mostly out of obligation, there's reason to look for an alternative, one that Linux could provide. That's something Serif should pay attention to.

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1 hour ago, LucasKA said:

There's no way to answer that chicken/egg reliably.

Wether or not it would would move people to Linux is the wrong question IMO, but rather, does it solve a need that enough Linux users have well enough for people to pay for it, and would that revenue be enough to justify development?
 

 

Maybe I'll say something stupid, now (something very frequent), but... Instead of the too involved and risky KS campaign (and which by itself seems wouldn't solve the main issues/doubts, and could end in bad name for the company) , or, arguing/debating without real numbers to talk about them (other than the massive difference in regular non pro users among both platforms, also the unknown ratio of VFX and its business related seats for Affinity compared to regular more mundane 2D fields (DTP, design for web, video games, photography, etc)) , I mean, the numbers that would actually count and serve to make a real estimation of risk/income, do something instead to count on numbers that could serve or be of use for Serif to consider it.  I mean, a poll, but not here neither in some other forum. In a solid platform for polls, which I'd recommend setting in the question not only if the user would pay around 50 bucks (whatever is the official price now out of the discount) for one of the current Serif's apps (AND which. And if would go for ALL (more granular info for Serif))  in Linux, but also use the shot for more possibilities : If they'd pay for serif apps at that price, and if they'd be willing to pay for other app, from whatever the company of FOSS group, and an a/b/c options for like 3 budgets (that I believe would be more or less what a typical user would be fine to pay despite having already Inkscape, Scribus and Gimp, as Serif's are IMO more advanced), like 50$, 100$, 150$ (or sth like that, as more is in yearly numbers -considering that most of us will update in Affinity's 2.0, 3.0, etc, to keep in the pro market requirements-  more or less the same than to keep in the cloud + Win/Mac or go Corel).

Now... I'd hope absolutely no one, at least with a brain installed, would blame Serif for not going that route even if 100k persons (in a place where one can't do different accounts, etc) vote yes. It's been demonstrated several times that from said to done there's a huge distance. See the case of Synfig. A lot of people talk very well about it, yet the donations are incredibly small, it can't sustain itself. BUT... whether Serif would consider going for it or not, that might be a good start to have better, solid numbers to think about taking the risk. And still does not compromise anyone, certainly not Serif, to go for it. Indeed, my suggestion would it to be done by someone unrelated to Serif. And in a very solid platform (which can't be gamed, easily hacked or be suspicious). I think change.org is not the place for that. I'd feel embarrassed to post sth like this in there....

Now, this said, I'm totally happy with Affinity in my Windows 7, and soon in Win 10. I have configured Win 10 for all my family and friends, and I know my ways to set it perfect and not annoying (and well, I've heard the privacy concerns, which are well funded, but funny how, same people, I've seen them using Alexa, lol... Or even just their phones...full of cr...apps.). I'm used to linux, console and desktop, but not much willing to go back. I only say this could be a good first step, but ONLY if people realizes Serif has zero intention for now of doing a port. So, keeping expectation exactly to zero, in relation to Serif (more optimistic with other potential parties). Take it more as a thermometer to see the level of interest of such a set of apps for Linux, think that then the ARMY of coders in the Linux OS, which are staying quite away of the idea of making these apps (or think, why, if there's Gimp/Inskcape/Scribus, why bother, as they're...coders... and the most they do -with exceptions- with these packages is place-holder art) while they are probably quite capable. It's in a large degree a coding community!. And they're in good numbers, I believe the % of system and coding ppl in Linux (now there's a lot of a new breed of just-Win-haters ;) ) is much larger in % than in the other OSes. (I was a rarity when I was in Linux).

If the poll shows great numbers, a ton of eyes will see that, so, if not Serif, someone else would do something... be it a company doing graphics apps in, close source code in the other OSes, or a bedroom coder joining forces and building a dev community (as for them, there's not such risk neither so much proof needed to take the chance. But they at least need motivation that it'll move enough souls).  The super strange thing is that in all this time the only serious, close to pro apps been done in the fields of Serif's apps, in 16 years or more, has only been the 3 known apps... There are a ton of programmers in the community. I don't know why more people do not find this more shocking. Just think for a minute the overwhelming number of network, coding and system related apps, and everything not being graphic focused that Linux companies, groups and individuals have produced. It makes one think. So, IMO, a poll, not a KS, and maybe not only one poll, is IMO, more than needed. You need to know what really moves your community in relation to this type of pro software, before taking action in one direction or another, IMO. All we have now is sensations and personal experiences ("Many of my friends"... "in my area".."in my particular company..")....

I know it has been mentioned before in these super old mile long threads, but after reading "some" of the very recent staff posts... I believe it wouldn't be a bad idea. BUT IMO, not growing expectations that it'd affect Serif's decisions. More a case of at least seeing the REAL numbers of people in the Linux community interested in pro apps for these fields (NOT only VFX. VFX is huge, but u would be amazed to know the size of business, in money, putting together the money moved by every single soul and company making brochures for print for small businesses, logos, banners, events stuff, press, books, etc, etc, etc... Together with photography, general 2D image editing, it's IMO the largest business sector in size (quite larger in money than 3D, despite being less spectacular), in graphics works. It was last time I checked global stats about it), of (linux, or current windows users willing to move) people interested in this particular types of apps, so to know if Serif, any other company , or any FOSS group could see the advantages of going for such a huge effort. So, this way there's no  point of the conflict about a budget, be it 500k dollars or whatever.  As is all only about real stats for a very particular endeavor. With a pinch of salt, as I'm 200% sure a lot of those saying "yes I would", as is free to check an option, will not put the money where their mouth is. This is not only a Linux habit (tho back in the day paying for software was considered there evil, the new young users might have not known this. I had a boss that every other day would literally tell me so (yup, I was many years working in a linux based company, too) ...this is very human, in general. But, kind of a start ! . And surely enough for other parties to take the plunge, and a data for Serif for further consideration (tho IMO they wouldn't go for it unless some very very solid thing would show up). Companies try to avoid what they consider unnecessary risks. And Serif have clearly winning products already in the current platforms, therefor, no such need.  Plus already overwhelmed with work in the many fronts (ipad, Mac, Win, the many features requests, cleaning bugs, improving performance, support, etc, etc. No one with a brain should blame 'em, IMO. Specially not if have worked at a similar company before....)

Edit:  It could have even the nice effect of just attracting more inside attention, from Linux based companies, to help with money and resources the 3 epic efforts (Gimp/Inkscape/Scribus), to get more permanent developers (donations for now only  pay like 3 guys (or 5, now am not sure) working at Gimp per year, in actual code, if I'm not wrong...) in each project. Gimp also has another set of problems, like having to drag certain very legacy code, which is an obstacle for certain things. In the end, it's proved that money is the only way to have real growth. This is done with donations, campaigns, merchandise selling, etc. It can be as well done with direct funds from large linux based companies (ie, RedHat, Canonical, etc, etc).


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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50 minutes ago, Renzatic said:

It should be a consideration, given that Linux's small, specifically inclined userbase is one of the major reasons why Serif doesn't yet consider it worthwhile to port their software. Given that most of the usual Linux crowd doesn't count graphic design as one of their primary concerns (they have GIMP for all their lightweight, just-get-it-done needs), for Serif to flip on their current opinion on the matter, they'd have to see the draw both Linux and the Affinity suite together would have on people.

Given that there are a goodly number of people sick of Windows 10's forced updates, and occasionally suspect data culling habits, alongside Apple treating the Mac as an aside, something they have to throw a bone to mostly out of obligation, there's reason to look for an alternative, one that Linux could provide. That's something Serif should pay attention to.

We are back to chicken/egg. Serif already supports Windows/Mac, so anyone jumping ship would just be cannibalizing their own user base that pays them. Not a huge incentive on that, IMO.

There is a contingent, both of people IN the Linux world and right on the fence.

The Blender development fund is at $43,000 a month in just sponsorship. They don't have a support business model. Half a million a year in basically grant money?

Red Hat sells millions of support subscriptions of freely downloadable software.

 

I really think a company that serves that edge is going to get handsomely rewarded.

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4 minutes ago, LucasKA said:

I really think a company that serves that edge is going to get handsomely rewarded.

But is needed to know the interest of Linux users in that type of apps. That Linux is big in some areas, and their users are highly interested in network, cloud systems, admin in general, and coding, that is beyond evidence. Any company will ask for stats for their particular product type, imo.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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6 minutes ago, LucasKA said:

Serif already supports Windows/Mac, so anyone jumping ship would just be cannibalizing their own user base that pays them. Not a huge incentive on that, IMO.

Really?  I'm not sure about that particular matter. I know a vast majority of people with a very wrong (but firmly planted) idea about linux. What is worse, I've seen many friends and family hating it even after trying for months. Sending all my effort in installing them all till every bit of config and driver, and teaching them first days directly to the trash. You hear in this thread a lot of bad words about win 10. This is a ridiculously small sample. The reality of the mass of actual Win users is a totally different thing. And yes, here am definitely including the hundreds of graphic workers I've met in my professional life at companies and out of them.  So, IMO, seeing how many mac users and windows ones are very afraid of even changing their OS to their own system's next version, and how even many get stuck when the spool of their printer fills up, or their LAN network fails, wifi is down, or can't kill a process (and they can be AMAZING designers, photographers or illustrators... trust me, seen it many times) ...I don't see the numbers of that being "that big". IMO they'd just win new users. The thing to know is... how many (more interesting to know the numbers of the already linux users, more than those "willing to jump", uncertain as heck). hence the poll idea. Although, again, would be just a weak proof.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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1 hour ago, LucasKA said:

We are back to chicken/egg. Serif already supports Windows/Mac, so anyone jumping ship would just be cannibalizing their own user base that pays them. Not a huge incentive on that, IMO.

There is a contingent, both of people IN the Linux world and right on the fence.

Given that they'd have to require people wanting to opt in on Linux to buy another license to cover the costs of the port, cannibalizing their own user base probably wouldn't be much of a concern there, since it wouldn't equate to a sell lost to allow some of their users to make a lateral move.

 And yes, there are very likely a number of people both in the Linux world, and those waiting for an excuse to jump into Linux who are just looking for an excuse to hand Serif their money. The question is, how large is this demographic? How much money could Serif make off of them? Could they, if they don't make an immediate profit on their hard work, at least get a return on the money sunk porting the software? There are a lot of ifs, ands, and buts surrounding supporting Linux. Tons of maybes, no guarantees.

Quote

The Blender development fund is at $43,000 a month in just sponsorship. They don't have a support business model. Half a million a year in basically grant money?

Red Hat sells millions of support subscriptions of freely downloadable software.

I really think a company that serves that edge is going to get handsomely rewarded.

Just because a specific business model worked spectacularly for those two companies (or a company and a foundation) doesn't necessarily mean it'll work just as well for Serif. Consider the difference between the three. 

Red Hat is a company that offers 24/7/365 support to other companies that rely on their software to maintain their internal infrastructure. They're as much a service as they are a software vendor, a very high priced one, and they hire hundreds upon hundreds of people to maintain this service for all their clients. Their use of open source code is something of an aside, considering the product they're really selling isn't their software, they give that away, they're selling their help and reliability.

That's a business model that just wouldn't work for Serif, who offer software that's self contained, and doesn't need to be maintained by highly trained professionals on a daily basis. They couldn't get away with the prices Red Hat charges.

And Blender? Next to the Linux kernel itself, it's probably THE darling of the FOSS scene. It's a powerful piece of software that attracts tons of talent, has a head developer/manager who's practically on a first name basis with his entire following (hell, I think I might even have said something to Ton at one point), and enjoys massive amounts of mindshare. Blender is in a pretty unique position, and is reaping the benefits of being there.

Now Serif is slowly and surely gaining a positive reputation for their work, and they obviously have a number of talented coders in their employ, but using a for-profit, closed sourced model to sell licenses for their software probably means that people won't be quite as generous with their money as they are with the Blender Foundation, and taking donations to support further work outside of their usual revenue stream would probably be filled with tons of legal boondoggles, along with potential hits to their reputation if things don't go 100% according to plan at all times.

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