Mask on group - Is it a bug ?

[DidierS]

Hi

Is it possible to assign a mask to a group of layers?

I observed that an image disappeared if you attempted to do so.
It is very possible that this is due to poor handling on my part, but can you see if you reproduce the same thing?
If you have another solution, I'm also interested....  

Here is the scenario I created:
1) load an image
2) add an adjustment layer (Level for example where you push the cursors)
3) Move this layer above the image (for testing purposes)
4) Select this layer and place it in a group.
5) Select the group and add a mask.
6) select the mask and paint a little black.

Result: the image disappears at the location of the black area....

Note that this depends on how you move the layer in the group.
There are two scenarios:
- either we select the layer by name and move it. We then obtain a group without the presence on the same line of the adjustment layer (Capture-4.1)
- either we select the layer using the icon and move it. We obtain the presence of this one in the group (Capture-4.2)

In the first case, at the end of the scenario, the mask is taken into account.
In the second, the image disappears.

I'm working on affinity photo 2.3

Best reguards

[firstdefence]

Are you trying to selectively mask the effects of, say, the levels adjustment layer so that the levels only effect some of the image?

example of masking an adjustment layer.

[NotMyFault]

As the image layer is nested to the group, the mask will impact this layer, too.

if the mask should not impact the image layer, you can move it out of / below the group.

[walt.farrell]

8 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

As the image layer is nested to the group, the mask will impact this layer, too.

I don't see the image being part of the Group in any of the screenshots.

[DidierS]

10 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't see the image being part of the Group in any of the screenshots.

You are right. The image is not a part of the group. its layer is below.

[DidierS]

44 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

Are you trying to selectively mask the effects of, say, the levels adjustment layer so that the levels only effect some of the image?

example of masking an adjustment layer.

By example. Yes.
But i also want to affects all adjustement layers set in group to a part of the image.
I though that add a mask to the group would be the soluce.

[DidierS]

24 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

As the image layer is nested to the group, the mask will impact this layer, too.

if the mask should not impact the image layer, you can move it out of / below the group.

The image is not set in group but below.

Here is a file to illustrate that.

 

Mask-In-Group-Exemple.afphoto

[Ron P.]

This is the only way I can replicate this.

1. Add the Adjustment Layer above the Background Image
2. Select the Group Icon, found at the bottom of the Layers Panel.
3. With the Group Layer selected, apply the Mask, to the Group.
   • However look at the icon for the Group Layer. It's at the Far Left. It shows null icon, circle with diagonal line through it.
   • Paint Black on the Mask
4. Move/Nest the Adjustment Layer inside the Group.
5. The Transparency painted on the Mask is maintained.

I think this is a bug...

[firstdefence]

I think I know what you have done, you will notice that each group folder has a different icon, one group is effectively a new group as denoted by the blank dot on the folder but the other folder has the Adjustment dot.

You must have selected the mask and adjustment layer and either right-clicked to select group or subsequently clicked on the new group icon at the bottom of the layers panel resulting in an adjustment group, while the other group was likely created by clicking on the new group icon at the bottom of the layers panel and the mask and adjustment layer subsequently added to that new group.

Try this...

in the KO group click and drag the adjustment layer that is nested in the ko group, onto the ko group folder, the icon will change on the ko group folder to match the ok folder icon and the transparency will disappear.

[- S -]

Yeah, it's a bit confusing.  Look where the double lines are in the Layers panel and also the colour of the layers in the Layers panel.

- If the adjustment layer is above the double lines and is a dark grey colour, it denotes that the adjustment layer is in the mask section.

 

- If the adjustment layer is below the double lines and is a light grey colour, it denotes that the adjustment layer is in the clipped or child section.

 

This is why you're seeing the difference.

 

Also refer to the Serif video here [3:13]:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fiCvurH0is&t=193s

 

[Old Bruce]

5 hours ago, DidierS said:

Here is the scenario I created:
1) load an image
2) add an adjustment layer (Level for example where you push the cursors)
3) Move this layer above the image (for testing purposes)
4) Select this layer and place it in a group.
5) Select the group and add a mask.
6) select the mask and paint a little black.

I have to question why you do steps 4, 5, and 6. You could simply have step four be:

4) Select the adjustment layer and paint on its builtin (but not displayed) mask.

Before Step 4:

After Step 4: The integrated mask magically appears as soon as I start painting.

[DidierS]

1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

I have to question why you do steps 4, 5, and 6. You could simply have step four be:

4) Select the adjustment layer and paint on its builtin (but not displayed) mask.

Before Step 4:

After Step 4: The integrated mask magically appears as soon as I start painting.

You're right. If I wanted to use a mask on the adjustment layer, I would do like you.
Here I presented a "simple" example.

But actually the goal is to use multiple layers in a group and hide them locally.

 

[Ron P.]

Humm, my post must not have made it.. 😕🙃🤪🙄

[NotMyFault]

Nice find.

simpler set up:

1. create new file
2. add any layer, e.g. rectangle in blue
3. add empty group layer on top
4. add mask to group in masking position
5. delete via brush from mask: mask escapes group and impacts layer below no matter which blend mode is used for group

this issue exists in 1.10.7 and probably all v2 releases.

 

to add more insanity:

1. Remove mask layer
2. add a pixel layer in masking position to group
3. start painting on pixel layer

you observe the rectangular bounding box around the painted content gets erased from lower levels.

you may need to zoom for manual redraw. Canvas, layer thumbnail and navigator preview don’t match.

 

classical Affinity „non deterministic behavior of alpha channel handling in layer blending“

[NathanC]

Thanks all for the additional info and steps, I've replicated and logged this unexpected group masking behaviour with the developers.

On 1/1/2024 at 4:45 PM, NotMyFault said:

to add more insanity:

1. Remove mask layer
2. add a pixel layer in masking position to group
3. start painting on pixel layer

I've also added these additional steps onto the report, thanks.