Saving only changes for the photo

[Martin Sahu]

Hello,
I would like to know if there is an option in Affinity Photo 2 to save only my changes made for the photo. It means that the photo would not be saved, but only the changes that are only  few KB and not MB or GB. In Ligtroom this exists as a catalog, in Zoner Photo Studio the data file is automatically created (example in the attachment). Or do I always have to save all changes to the .aftemplate format? Unfortunately, this is the large file...
Thank you.

[Pšenda]

Try Place (Linked, not Embedded). 

[NotMyFault]

In V2 you can decide if a raw file gets developed into a pixel layer or stays as linked RAW file, to get a smaller file size.

[Martin Sahu]

Hello,

Thanks for the replies, but I don't want to lose the RAW data.

I'm switching between programs Lightroom to Affinity Photo 2.

And in Lightroom when I make changes and save them to the catalog, only those changes are saved without the original photo. These changes then consume only a few KB.

If I want to go back to these changes in the future, I only need to find the original raw photo and I don't have to do anything.

isn't this option in Affinity?

Thanks

Regards,

[NotMyFault]

The concept is different to e.g. side-car files.

In Photo, the .afohoto file can contain a reference (link) to a raw file. All changes are stored in the .afphoto file. The RAW file is never changed by Affinity. 

Affinity has no DAM / Catalog.

I don't know what you mean by 

1 hour ago, Martin Sahu said:

but I don't want to lose the RAW data.

You never loose RAW data with Affinity apps. You can‘t write to or delete RAW files (except by intentional misusage). All adjustments etc are stored in a .afphoto file. RAWs are opened kind of readonly.

[Martin Sahu]

Thank you for the answer. But I'll try to ask another way. Will my changes be saved somewhere if I make some changes in "Develop persona" and don't continue to "Photo Persona"? I won't even save it to .afphoto file.

If not, I will lose all changes. These changes are saved automatically in all programs, which I tested (PhotoDirector, ACDSee Photo and so on). Even free programs.

And I didn't find this function in Affinity Photo program and this feature is very important for me.

Thank you.

[Old Bruce]

Just now, Martin Sahu said:

Thank you for the answer. But I'll try to ask another way. Will my changes be saved somewhere if I make some changes in "Develop persona" and don't continue to "Photo Persona"? I won't even save it to .afphoto file.

If not, I will lose all changes. These changes are saved automatically in all programs, which I tested (PhotoDirector, ACDSee Photo and so on). Even free programs.

And I didn't find this function in Affinity Photo program and this feature is very important for me.

Thank you.

If you do not save the Developed raw file as a .afphoto file then all the adjustments made to the raw file are lost, because you didn't save it. There is a way to save the changes as a linked file, the size of the resulting file can be quite small. On the right is the raw file on the left is the Linked, developed file.

Here is where you set the Linked, Embedded, or Pixel data.

[NotMyFault]

4 hours ago, Martin Sahu said:

I won't even save it to .afphoto file.

If you don’t save the afphoto file, your changes are not saved. Affinity may differ wrt this aspect to many other apps. If this is a deal breaker for you, make your choice.

[Barry Newman]

On 6/27/2023 at 6:50 PM, Martin Sahu said:

Hello,
I would like to know if there is an option in Affinity Photo 2 to save only my changes made for the photo. It means that the photo would not be saved, but only the changes that are only  few KB and not MB or GB. In Ligtroom this exists as a catalog, in Zoner Photo Studio the data file is automatically created (example in the attachment). Or do I always have to save all changes to the .aftemplate format? Unfortunately, this is the large file...
Thank you.

No, Affinity Photo does not save edits of RAW files to sidecar files or an image database like other RAW editors do, which is a severe limitation of Affinity Photo.

Fortunately, there are many amazing and better RAW editors on the market that you can use with or without Affinity.

[walt.farrell]

9 hours ago, Barry Newman said:

No, Affinity Photo does not save edits of RAW files to sidecar files or an image database like other RAW editors do, which is a severe limitation of Affinity Photo.

It's not that severe any more, Barry. If you Develop to a Linked RAW Layer instead of to a Pixel layer you have basically something like that, but your .afphoto file is the "sidecar" file for the original RAW file.

[Barry Newman]

3 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

It's not that severe any more, Barry. If you Develop to a Linked RAW Layer instead of to a Pixel layer you have basically something like that, but your .afphoto file is the "sidecar" file for the original RAW file.

I don't quite agree with that, Walt. It shows that Serif hasn't understood what the competitors' RAW develop software does and what customers use it for in their workflows. That in itself is bad news for the future and for customers.

But I agree that Serif has done a tiny bit to make it not so severe - i.e. not so critically flawed. But I would still call it severe.

If Serif wants to take this develop module seriously (and thus the customers), it would be a good idea to give it a proper overhaul on its own, i.e. not tinkering with small patchwork solutions, but to give it a lot of attention in a release. I can see that some algorithms are also from a millennium that is not the current one. 

Best 
Barry

[thomaso]

14 minutes ago, Barry Newman said:

If Serif wants to take this develop module seriously (and thus the customers)

I don't quite agree, Berry. – APhoto is no DAM and never gave the impression to be one, whereas there are a few moderator's posts about Serif's wish or plan to add DAM features … one day. A missing feature, especially of that complexity, doesn't mean the developers would not take anything or -body seriously. I rather got this impression when noticing that bugs, small glitches up to major issues, were continued from V1 in the "all new designed" V2.

I just don't use APhoto for developing – while it can work well for many other image edits. The develop module probably feels sufficient for users who develop occasionally or single photos only. So what? – For a judgement we need to keep an eye on the price, too.

[Pšenda]

5 minutes ago, thomaso said:

"all new designed" V2

Just out of interest - what do you get this information from? Personally, I've never seen information about Version 2 being "all new" as you imply here.

 

8 minutes ago, thomaso said:

whereas there are a few moderator's posts about Serif's wish or plan to add DAM features

I think it was not about adding DAM features to existing applications, but about creating a completely new DAM application.

[thomaso]

50 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Just out of interest - what do you get this information from? Personally, I've never seen information about Version 2 being "all new" as you imply here.

"Imply" is the keyword here. It might have been my custom understanding or interpreting of the marketing text whose combination of "next generation" + "brand-new" (… versions of the apps) + "completely redesigned" (UI) made me think that either all interface glitches or even / at least the major bugs would have been fixed. On affinityspotlight the wording "Redesigned (…) the all-new Affinity (…)" + "Painstaingly remodelled" has been even more implying by hiding "interface look" or "visual appearance", for instance as a part of the new version name "all-new Affinity V2 UI".

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[v_kyr]

55 minutes ago, thomaso said:

APhoto is no DAM and never gave the impression to be one

Note that using sidecar files (which are mostly kept in XMP format in order to follow an industry-standard, but there are also custom app specific ones) for/in RAW processors has nothing to do with DAM software specifics here at all, as it's just a format for holding all recorded information about any edits or metadata changes one made to the development of individual RAW photos. So a sidecar file accompanies a RAW file by keeping all the informations of how to develop a RAW file in order to always being able to repeatedly process a RAW file or other RAW files in a previously done manner.

An app included image database (often embedded SQLite based) in contrast to that is often used in some RAW converters to offer an image browser like overview of processed and unprocessed images etc. Which also doesn't mean that the app works like a real DAM here, as a full blown DAM software offers usually much more like just presenting some image browser like cataloge overview.

[Barry Newman]

55 minutes ago, thomaso said:

I don't quite agree, Berry. – APhoto is no DAM and never gave the impression to be one, whereas there are a few moderator's posts about Serif's wish or plan to add DAM features … one day. A missing feature, especially of that complexity, doesn't mean the developers would not take anything or -body seriously. I rather got this impression when noticing that bugs, small glitches up to major issues, were continued from V1 in the "all new designed" V2.

I just don't use APhoto for developing – while it can work well for many other image edits. The develop module probably feels sufficient for users who develop occasionally or single photos only. So what? – For a judgement we need to keep an eye on the price, too.

I can't agree with you at all. I also didn't mention DAM, so I don't know why another thread has to mutate into "I don't use" and "I, I, I, I". 

As vkyr suggests, sidecar files are not necessarily related to DAMs. They can just ALSO be used there with great advantage.

It's hard to make professional progress in this forum, and to move towards something constructive, because here again we have a discussion that can't get off the ground due to a lack of industry knowledge. This is not niche knowledge, after all.

My suggestion to give develop modules an overhaul had nothing to do with DAM. There are so many things in the module that need algorithm replacement and there are clear shortcomings compared to competitors, both in features and quality. 

[Pšenda]

12 minutes ago, thomaso said:

"Imply" is the keyword here. It might have been my custom understanding or interpreting of the marketing text whose combination of "next generation" + "brand-new" (… versions of the apps) + "completely redesigned" (UI) made me think that either all interface glitches or even / at least the major bugs would have been fixed. On affinityspotlight the wording "Redesigned (…) the all-new Affinity (…)" + "Painstaingly remodelled" has been even more implying by hiding "interface look" or "visual appearance", for instance as a part of the new version name "all-new Affinity V2 UI".

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If you read carefully, it is clear that "redesigned" always explicitly states "UI". So interpreting it as "all new designed V2" is quite biased (which is to be expected given your signature "Affinity V1 only" :-).

[thomaso]

9 minutes ago, Barry Newman said:

I also didn't mention DAM,

… you mentioned:

11 hours ago, Barry Newman said:

an image database like other RAW editors do

This thread "Saving only changes for the photo" mentions / demonstrates in various replies that this requested feature exists in V2.

From that perspective it appears unclear what still made you insist to add "Serif hasn't understood what the competitors' RAW develop software does and what customers use it for". This quite general, unspecific complaint made this thread mutate into "I, I, I, I" … simply ignoring those users who do use APhoto for developing / do not prefer using another app.

26 minutes ago, Barry Newman said:

My suggestion to give develop modules an overhaul

My reply did not refer to a suggestion but to your indicator, Serif would not take the develop module and/or their customers seriously. – Two pair of socks.

[thomaso]

25 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

If you read carefully, it is clear that "redesigned" always explicitly states "UI". So interpreting it

If you read carefully … you interpreted my post: "as you imply here".

My signature can be useful to make clear in my posts that my hints / workflows / workarounds are based on / refer to / experienced with V1 only. In case you interpret this as a statement against V2 you interpret too much, too, … as my additionally mentioned macOS version tells for those who have the Affinity V2 system requirements in mind, that limited technical conditions matter here, not any aversion to Affinity.

Ironically, I stick to this macOS version to keep compatibility with older software and features that Affinity doesn't offer yet – while I would be glad, if I could upgrade the mac and use Affinity only without loss.

[Pšenda]

50 minutes ago, thomaso said:

In case you interpret this as a statement against V2 you interpret too much

I don't interpret it that way, and perhaps I didn't even write it that way (although Google translator can of course surprise you :-). But my understanding is that your assessment of the V2 and its design is based more on marketing information, not on its use.

[thomaso]

1 minute ago, Pšenda said:

But my understanding is that your assessment of the V2 and its design is based more on marketing information, not on its use.

... in fact mainly on the forum: Not only was I very surprised by the fast increasing number of bug reports for the brand new V2 but I get still surprised today by reports from newer users with problems or bugs that we know from V1 reports, especially surprised if those were initially reported years ago.

[Pšenda]

I was talking about your assumption that it is "all new designed". But you're right, there are still plenty of bugs to fix (after all, just like in any complex sw). However, "bugs that we know from V1 reports" just proves that it's definitely not "all new", and that's why some old/unfixed bugs remain. But with V2 there is at least a chance that they will be fixed eventually (but many new ones will appear again 🙂

[v_kyr]

2 hours ago, thomaso said:

My signature can be useful to make clear in my posts that my hints / workflows / workarounds are based on / refer to / experienced with V1 only.  … as my additionally mentioned macOS version tells for those who have the Affinity V2 system requirements in mind, that limited technical conditions matter here, not any aversion to Affinity.

Ironically, I stick to this macOS version to keep compatibility with older software and features that Affinity doesn't offer yet – while I would be glad, if I could upgrade the mac and use Affinity only without loss.

As "Marcus Tullius Cicero" once upon a time said:  „in eadem es navi“. - So I for my part are pretty much sitting in the same boot here.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

I was talking about your assumption that it is "all new designed". (…) However, "bugs that we know from V1 reports" just proves that it's definitely not "all new", and that's why some old/unfixed bugs remain.

You seemed to miss my point: My assumption or expectation that "all new designed" would include the code and thus would have V1 bugs eliminated was initiated by the way the text was written, in particular by the terms quoted above / with using "UI" but avoiding "visual design", "interface appearance" or other more verbose terms than the 2-letter abbreviation. Would you indeed say Affinity V2 has a "brand-new" look and "all-new UI"? In my understanding, "brand-new" and "all-new" need more changes than simply different icons. (for various users even the dark UI contrast or the font size issue just continues from V1)

You could blame me for not having read carefully – while I would blame Serif for trying to mislead readers. Both are individual points of view. Whereas pure facts embedded in unclear expressions like "much more to the redesign than aesthetic", "painstakingly", "we push the boundaries of what's possible", "absolutely thrilled" seemed to risk confusion on purpose.

Yes, in fact I got aware of my misassumption by noticing the increasing number of bug reports in the first days. The fact that many of them were V1 errors became obvious to me only later.

[R C-R]

7 hours ago, Barry Newman said:

My suggestion to give develop modules an overhaul had nothing to do with DAM.

FWIW, suggestions for such things should be made in the Feedback forums, not here in the desktop Questions one, if you want them to be seen & considered by the devs.