A simple task on Version 1 is not working at all on Version 2

[SWomack]

I use Affinity Designer to make designs to cut on my CNC plasma cutter. I frequently use the Add and Subtract functions. In Version 1 I can place a rectangle over the middle of a letter and click subtract and the rectangle area is erased. Version 2 however, does not produce the same results and in some instances the letter and the rectangle disappear entirely. Any ideas on why this unexpected behavior is occurring?

[h_d]

Hi @SWomack and welcome!

Would you be able to upload a screen grab of your Layers panel (Version 2) after applying the Subtract geometry? 

[firstdefence]

or upload an example document

[SWomack]

Here's the before and the expected Version 1 Subtract and the unexpected Version 2 Subtract...

[SWomack]

Here's what I usually can create in a few minutes.

[Corgi]

This could be related to the knife tool bug?

 

[SWomack]

It appears that this bug has been around for a bit. How long does it usually take Serif to fix bugs? Hopefully no where near as long as ESRI...

[Corgi]

No way to tell, but it does seem like a serious bug that deserves priority attention.

Are you at least running 2.0.3? The following is listed in the 2.0.3 improvements/fixes:

Quote

• Shape Builder Tool: functional improvements on some shapes

 

[SWomack]

Yes its 2.0.3 I just downloaded it on the 25th.

Edited December 29, 2022 by SWomack

[François R]

35 minutes ago, SWomack said:

It appears that this bug has been around for a bit. How long does it usually take Serif to fix bugs? Hopefully no where near as long as ESRI...

Somewhere between six months or never. On average, closer to never than to six months. They do fix bugs, but many bugs or hopelessly bad algorithms are never fixed. The company has never been different, and this forum and the old Plus range forum are evidence of that.

I simply cannot fathom who prioritizes bug fixes at Serif and what criteria bugs are prioritized by. Sure, obviously critical bugs get priority - but the rest? It's like they slide down the backlog at Serif and never come back into the light cone.

And that is simply the reason why I have given up on both Photo and Publisher forever - in addition to the feature deficiencies. I won't cling to hope and a cheap price tag. And my choice was rational and appropriate; these two programs I still can't use, and many years have passed. I use Designer's fairly elementary features quite heavily, but I've completely given up on everything around those features. I don't think it's going to get much better. Designer does its limited niche task in my work excellently, but I judge it solely on what it can NOW. I've learned that it doesn't get much better. V2 was an extremely limited improvement. Definitely not worth waiting years for. 

So with that in mind, buy software that (provably) does what you need and what (provably) works today (here I'm thinking of stability and quality of algorithms and output). Don't base it on hopium like "It'll be fixed" - odds are, it won't be. It's not guaranteed by any means.

Maybe Serif can impress you along the way - I've let others impress me. Cost a bit more, delivered today and delivered much, much more. And I have to deliver real products to real customers. So for my part, Designer is close to the exit door and there is crowding at the door in.

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, SWomack said:

Here's the before and the expected Version 1 Subtract and the unexpected Version 2 Subtract...

I am sure I am missing something but to me the results look the same in the middle & bottom screenshots you provided, so could you explain to me the difference between them?

BTW, when I try this on my Mac I get a "(Curves)" object that is unfilled, even though the original W letter I typed was black. So to see the resulting Curves layer when it is not the selected one I have to give it either a non-zero width stroke or a fill color.

[deeds]

Subtract and Add have been seriously bugged since the addition of the non-destructive feature... for destructive work and non-destructive operation. Which is way back in the 1.x days.

 

There are a myriad of issues with these operations... but this definitely looks like a new one. So maybe this'll force them to look into the problems with the algorithms.

Whilst non-destructive editing of shape merging is a huge boon, it's gotta work reliably to be creatively dependable. 

 

Sadly, it's still possible to make two rectangles, rotate one of them 90 degrees, add them, then apply a cornering to the inner vertices, and watch one of the outer vertices crimp. This is a very old bug, indicative of the source of the winding issues with vertices.

 

eg:

 

[François R]

32 minutes ago, anto said:

As a workaround you can use Erase mode

Erase blend mode is not a workaround ... at all. Erase is not a vector operation and the output from erase blend mode will be bitmap - rasterized!

Then you might as well work in MS Paint! 

[Eddy-2]

Designer 2.03, Windows 10.

Subtract seems to work for me with the exception that the result has no fill or stroke.

With the result selected, I can select a fill and/or stroke to apply.

[François R]

Let us look for professionel results in Affinity Designer 2.0.3:

Before:

 

After:

Before:

🤔

After: 

😂 🤪 🙄 😭

...

A note: I believed that converting the W - an artistic text object - to curves first would solve this particular issue, but:

 

Same fill behaviour in v1.10.6 BUT the algorithms don't make the embarrasing error in v1.

 

 

[Eddy-2]

To anto.

Again, seems OK here...

 

[SWomack]

9 hours ago, R C-R said:

I am sure I am missing something but to me the results look the same in the middle & bottom screenshots you provided, so could you explain to me the difference between them?

BTW, when I try this on my Mac I get a "(Curves)" object that is unfilled, even though the original W letter I typed was black. So to see the resulting Curves layer when it is not the selected one I have to give it either a non-zero width stroke or a fill color.

Sometimes the layers would disappear instead of being unfilled.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, SWomack said:

Sometimes the layers would disappear instead of being unfilled.

Like both @Eddy-2 & I mentioned, for us the resulting Curves layer (there is only one at that point) has neither a stroke or a fill, so while it is there, it is invisible in the workspace until/unless it is given at least one of those 2 items.

So at least for us, there is a bug, but it is a minor one compared to what somme seems to be getting.

[Eddy-2]

To anto.

Thanks. I don't say there isn't a problem since there obviously is, as others have shown. It's just that I'm not getting the same results as some of the others.

[loukash]

1 hour ago, SWomack said:

Sometimes the layers would disappear instead of being unfilled.

16 minutes ago, R C-R said:

the resulting Curves layer (there is only one at that point) has neither a stroke or a fill, so while it is there, it is invisible in the workspace

This happens when you make boolean operations with text objects at the bottom of the selection.
Looks like a bug to me, present in v1 already.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, loukash said:

This happens when you make boolean operations with text objects at the bottom of the selection.
Looks like a bug to me, present in v1 already.

Yes, it does happen in both versions, but the point is the layer has not actually disappeared from the document; it just has no stroke or fill so you can't see it anywhere except in the Layers panel.

BTW, I can't replicate the odd behavior @anto demonstrated in this post above, either. For me, it always subtracts, first time, every time; & the result is an unfilled, un-stroked Curves layer that I can completely fill with a single color or gradient or whatever.

So just guessing but I think the bug is different & more serious on Windows than on Macs.

[Old Bruce]

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this is a Windows only bug. Or it could be a font specific bug, there are a few weirdly constructed fonts causing a variety of problems.

[R C-R]

8 hours ago, François R said:

Let us look for professionel results in Affinity Designer 2.0.3:

I can't duplicate that behavior on my Mac either. Could you maybe upload the document with the W text & rectangle to a reply here so I can see if there is something about it that would give me the same result? Either way, what font are you using?

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

Or it could be a font specific bug, there are a few weirdly constructed fonts causing a variety of problems.

I think that could be part of it, but I tried subtracting a rectangle from around 20 different fonts installed on my Mac & had no problems with any of them other than the lack of a fill or stroke being applied to the resulting Curves layer.

[François R]

55 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this is a Windows only bug. Or it could be a font specific bug, there are a few weirdly constructed fonts causing a variety of problems.

It is a "developed by Serif" algoritm issue I can easily reproduce on Mac. Also the font in the example... Arial. Not some shitty freeware font.

Cannot reproduce it in other programs.

I rest my case.