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As it is now, a layer belongs to a page. In a publishing application, this is not especially useful. Layers should belong to the whole document. I.e:

If a publication is done in 20 languages, a way to solve this is ta have common images and unique texts. Texts are placed in layers for each language. Enabling/disabling of the current language is easily done by switch a layer on/off. As Publisher is now, this is almost impossible. You would have to have all these layers on every page, and when export PDF, you would have to go over 100 of pages and switch the layers on/off.

I'm surprised you missed this one. Publisher is a very good first edition. I've been using DTP for 30 years and many different systems and apps. Publisher finally lets me get rid of InDesign.But... you have to make some changes to make it really replace InDesign. I'm quite sure you will.

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There's been a mention of global layers  but you can use masterpages and simply switch of the textframe in the masterpage and it will reflect on all pages
or by editing linked and switch of through here.


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Win10(1909)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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That may work in a very simple and recurring layout. But for i.e a product catalog, each page may look different. So using masters for this would not be a good idea. However, it may work for a simple book etc.

But if you would be a serious competitor, global layers is in many cases a must. I even use it to separate graphics, text etc for a single language. You may i.e have a layer with notes. There is no way around this. Global layers is a must.

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1 hour ago, manandmouse said:

If a publication is done in 20 languages, a way to solve this is ta have common images and unique texts. Texts are placed in layers for each language. Enabling/disabling of the current language is easily done by switch a layer on/off. As Publisher is now, this is almost impossible. You would have to have all these layers on every page, and when export PDF, you would have to go over 100 of pages and switch the layers on/off.

Right. As @haakoo says, you can just put your Text Frames on Master Pages, and have a Master Page per language. Then apply each language Master Page to all document pages. If you want English you turn off the Text Frame visibility in all the other Master Pages. If you want French, you turn off the Text Frame visibility on the English Master Page and enable it on the French Master Page.

Master Pages give you global layers. And note that you can apply many Masters to a document page.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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This may be, as I said, a solution for a simple recurring layout. But take a minut to think about it: You have a 200 page catalog in 24 languages. Each page has it's own layout. That means that you must have 24x200 = 4800 master pages! This is not a made up example. I've been involved in productions like this over 30 years in DTP business.

Global layers (or document layers) is not a strange thing. It's a very normal and good way to solve many different situations.

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.


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Win10(1909)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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39 minutes ago, manandmouse said:

You have a 200 page catalog in 24 languages. Each page has it's own layout.

Ok. I will admit you have vastly more experience than I have.

But please explain how global layers help you in this case.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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I think I have a solution that would play nice with the current way of how layers and master pages works.

That is an option to mark a layer as ”global” (like a global swatch). Those layers would show up on every page, including master pages. The content of that layer is decided per page. If the layer is hidden on one page, it is hidden on every page.

Used on master pages, it would be a way to choose what will be in front or behind other page content.

And everybody lived happily ever after :)

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Exactly soo. It's the current solution in e.g InDesign (in InDesign all layers are global per default thou). 

I could see some advantages that keep global and "single page" layers appart. Then it would be master-global-local types of layers. But it's not very important. More important is to have the same layers for all pages. I.e when working with text, you could just disable all the images (to gain speed and focus). When working with multiple languages, it's crucial. You have one layer per language and works with one at a time.

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1 hour ago, manandmouse said:

When working with multiple languages, it's crucial. You have one layer per language and works with one at a time.

But you have said that, for a catalog, for example, the layout is different on each page.

So how do you have 1 global layer per language, so it exists on each page, but then has a different layout on each page? And once you've changed it on each page, how is it really global?


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

So how do you have 1 global layer per language, so it exists on each page, but then has a different layout on each page?

That's exactly the point. You can't think it because you never have worked this way. – Imagine these global layers:

1752423981_globallayers1.jpg.640311eb8224b1c02269d08f92a03a97.jpg

 

In AfPub I placed these layers on a master page to have them on all document pages – even though I don't need them on a master page, because I have different content on all document pages. But to place these layers on a master page is in AfPub the only way to get them on every documents page. Okay, it works so far.

I didn't want to create these layers only but also want to set one of them invisible for the moment. Let's say the layer for German text.

Now I go to document page 1 with the goal to place content. There my layers look like this at first: Just a master folder.

1083824008_globallayers2.jpg.8932cf49eadaa9d31df008e61b4d5d83.jpg

I expand this layers folder to create a first object on page 1 on one of the layers, let's say, I want to write text on the layer for English text. Therefore I select the layer for English text ...

581089381_globallayers4.jpg.6e18f42e54edf37b72738ab5f62fec29.jpg

... and create a text frame with some text:

192231296_globallayers5.jpg.225340120af48f257d62431df76d213a.jpg

I must have done something wrong because it does not appear in the selected layer but on top of all my layers. Hm. So I try to move it down where it belongs to:

3075630_globallayers6.jpg.fce01b7561ba5f03e1022f2d435399ce.jpg

Unfortunately here is the end of the game.

My text frame appears over all layers, and I can not place, insert, move, or create an object on page 1 in the English layer, BECAUSE that layer was created on a master, - but I had to create it on a master to make it available on all document pages AND make it invisible or visible from one place.

So, therefore, a layered master page is not a substitute for global layers. Only with global layers can layer properties be set for ALL document pages at the same time; visibility, exportability, printability or just locking.


macOS 10.12.6,  Macbook Pro 15" + Eizo 24"

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8 hours ago, thomaso said:

My text frame appears over all layers, and I can not place, insert, move, or create an object on page 1 in the English layer, BECAUSE that layer was created on a master, - but I had to create it on a master to make it available on all document pages AND make it invisible or visible from one place.

So, therefore, a layered master page is not a substitute for global layers. Only with global layers can layer properties be set for ALL document pages at the same time; visibility, exportability, printability or just locking.

Thanks. That example helped clarify something I've been thinking about.

Master Pages provide part of the global layer function. The other part of it is provided by Layer (capital L) layers on the Master Page.

Here's my example :multi-language.afpub

It does reveal a Publisher bug, which I will report separately. The page thumbnails in the Pages panel do not update properly.

But it shows how Master Page Layers (capital L) can handle this scenario.

  1. On the Master Page, use the menu Layer > New Layer. This gives you Layer1.
  2. Still on the Master Page, Layer > New Layer, giving Layer2.
  3. And again, Layer > New Layer, giving Layer3.
  4. And finally (for my example), Layer > New Layer, giving Layer4
  5. Rename the layers, I chose to name Layer1  English, Layer2 Spanish, Layer3 French, and Layer4 "Non-Language Content".
  6. Create some pages.
  7. On the Master Page, select the Non-Language Content layer, and add Picture Frames and anything else that does not change based on the language, and should be visible on all pages.

That completes the basic setup. You could, of course, draw Text Frames on each of the Layers on the Master if you want them in the same positions on the document pages, and if needed adjust their positions on individual document pages later. I chose to create them individually on each document page as I went along, to demonstrate that it is possible for the global layer content to be different on each page.

Let's start with the English text:

  1. On the Master Page, hide the French and Spanish Layers.
  2. On Page 1, right-click on Master A in the Layers panel, and choose Edit Detached.
  3. Expand Master A to see its layers.
  4. Select the English layer.
  5. Draw a Text Frame where you want it, and put English text into it.
  6. Click on Finished to end the Edit Detached.
  7. Repeat 2-6 for page 2, page 3, etc.

Repeat as needed for Spanish, French, etc. For each language, in step 1, hide all the other language layers on the Master Page. In step 4 it is critical to select the proper language layer, on each page that you edit..

The Layer layers in the Master Page are your global layers, and Edit Detached allows you to add things to them on the document pages (just remember to select the global layer before adding things, so they go into it and not onto the the document page as normal layers.

 


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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Technically that is possible. But that would be an extremely cumbersome workflow, having to enter Detach mode every time you need to do an edit.

It's a big NO from me.

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I think there are no really working workarounds for global layers. About the same if you prepare language versions as separate documents..

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4 hours ago, Mofab said:

Technically that is possible. But that would be an extremely cumbersome workflow, having to enter Detach mode every time you need to do an edit.

It's a big NO from me.

So, in the workflow in the other product, how do you handle the situation where the "global" layer should have different content on all the pages it's on? How do you indicate which edits should be truly global, and which are local edits to the global layer just for a particular page?


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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2 hours ago, Fixx said:

I think there are no really working workarounds for global layers.

But a Layer (capital L) in a Master Page is global, Fixx. It exists on all pages, and by default shows the same content on all layers (but can be changed if you want), can be hidden or shown on all pages, etc.

It can't be much more global than that, as far as I can see.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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44 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

So, in the workflow in the other product, how do you handle the situation where the "global" layer should have different content on all the pages it's on? How do you indicate which edits should be truly global, and which are local edits to the global layer just for a particular page?

Are you confusing Layers with Master pages?

Master pages are for consistent content whilst (global) Layers can have what ever content you'd like. Including consistent content if placed in that same layer on the Master page.

In InDesign (which is what we usually compares with), it's possible to ”propagate” a master page object to a page. It will remain a connection to the master page, except for the properties you change. Like the detach mode, kind of.

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1 hour ago, Mofab said:

Are you confusing Layers with Master pages?

Master pages are for consistent content whilst (global) Layers can have what ever content you'd like. Including consistent content if placed in that same layer on the Master page.

No, I'm not confusing anything.

Layers (capital L), created on Master Pages via Layer > New Layer can have whatever content you'd like, including consistent content if you want. They really are a kind of global layer.

Take a look at my post several up from this one. It describes using Layers on a Master Page as a form of global layer, with consistent or changeable content on pages as you want. And it includes a sample .afpub file demonstrating it. The key is that you can use the Master Page to control the visibility of the layers (if that's important to you) and you can use Edit Detached if you need a page to have different content on that Layer than some other page(s) have.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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I actually thought of using exactly your method before you suggested it. I quickly found that it is not a real alternative, as it takes too long to enter Detach mode for every little edit, in a large document.

In the real world we have deadlines to keep.

This thread is a feature request. Not a tread for cumbersome workarounds.

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23 minutes ago, Mofab said:

This thread is a feature request. Not a tread for cumbersome workarounds.

True.

However, unless you can describe exactly how a different approach would work, in a less cumbersome manner, and provide all the function, it's unlikely to be accepted for development. That's just my opinion, of course.

But that's largely why I asked you above (and which you have not answered) about alternatives to Edit Detached if that is so cumbersome:

Quote

how do you [in the other application] handle the situation where the "global" layer should have different content on all the pages it's on? How do you indicate which edits should be truly global, and which are local edits to the global layer just for a particular page?

That function, distinguishing local edits to a global layer from global edits to a global layer, is what Edit Detached provides.

Though, thinking further, I suppose one could propose that to do a global edit one could edit on the Master Page (or equivalent), and that any edits on a local page should be local edits. But there would still need to be some switch to enable that, possibly on the Master Page, because other users have wanted to ensure that the global content would not be accidentally changed on a local page.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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Layers has been discussed many times, including this thread about Layer confusion started by me, and then I was pointed to this thread here.

I started another small project this weekend and the more items I added into my file, the more I got frustrated with how Layers work. The thing is, they're not really Layers in the Layers Panel; they are Objects. The first thing I did was turn off auto-scrolling which helped slightly, then I created ACTUAL layers and moved the objects logically into the layers. With this setup, it behaves more like Illustrator. I haven't even ventured into multi-page documents, but I know at my day job, having ACTUAL layers is a must-have and Publisher simply wouldn't cut it.

A moderator at one point mentioned that they are indeed working on "global layers" and to wait to provide feedback one they have it implemented.

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Though, thinking further, I suppose one could propose that to do a global edit one could edit on the Master Page (or equivalent), and that any edits on a local page should be local edits.

Now you are starting to grasp it ;)

Global Layers has not much to do with global contents. Everything on the Layer is unique to the page – except for Master page content, put in the same Layer.

They're mostly used for fast switching language, turn on/off comments, sometimes templates that you like to keep on the page instead of on master, and other stuff I can't think of right now.

– And that pretty much answered the question that you didn't think I answered.

My first post in this thread suggested a way to implement a feature request (global layers) in the existing approach, without needing to make it from scratch.

Detach mode is just another approach for altering Master content, than InD's ”Detach master item”. That's fine with me. That wouldn't need to be used that often anyway.

Quote

A moderator at one point mentioned that they are indeed working on "global layers" and to wait to provide feedback one they have it implemented.

Glad to hear the developers are aware of its necessity.

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I've just come here because I wanted to find out how to create global layers: and I'm sad to learn this isn't possible yet.

My case scenario is this: I have a year planner with two days per week, including a unique quote for each. I intend to release multiple versions of the planner (digital pdf), where the quotes follow different themes, so I want to be able to turn off all the theme A quotes and activate the theme B quotes, and then the same for themes C and D. Very similar to the multi-lingual example above.

The only other option that I can see is to make sure the base document is set—no changes needed—and then create a new document for each quote theme. What a pity it can't all be done in the same file!


MacBook Pro 15" 32GB RAM, iPad Pro 12.9", Apple Pencil .  Software tools of my trade: Affinity Designer | Affinity Publisher | PDF Expert | Drafts | Editorial | Plutio  

https://eandrpublications.com.au

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5 hours ago, misc33 said:

My case scenario is this: I have a year planner with two days per week, including a unique quote for each. I intend to release multiple versions of the planner (digital pdf), where the quotes follow different themes, so I want to be able to turn off all the theme A quotes and activate the theme B quotes, and then the same for themes C and D. Very similar to the multi-lingual example above.

You can handle that with 4 Text Frames on your Master Page. Position them on top of each other, so they'll be in the same spot on each document page.

On the Master Page make one of the Text Frames visible. Then fill in the quotes on each of your document pages for theme A.

Go back the Master Page, hide that Text Frame, and make another one visible. Then fill in the quotes on each of your document pages for theme B.

Repeat for theme C and theme D.

When you want to export a PDF, make the appropriate Text Frame visible on the Master Page.


-- Walt

Windows 10 Home, version 1909 (183623.476), 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00Gz, GeForce GTX 970
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.486 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.7.3.481 and 1.8.0.502 Beta

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18 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

You can handle that with 4 Text Frames on your Master Page. Position them on top of each other, so they'll be in the same spot on each document page.

On the Master Page make one of the Text Frames visible. Then fill in the quotes on each of your document pages for theme A.

Go back the Master Page, hide that Text Frame, and make another one visible. Then fill in the quotes on each of your document pages for theme B.

Repeat for theme C and theme D.

When you want to export a PDF, make the appropriate Text Frame visible on the Master Page.

Thanks, Walt, I'll give it a go. Fingers crossed! Edited to add: IT WORKS!!! So happy!! Thank you Walt—you've made a massive task MUCH easier.


MacBook Pro 15" 32GB RAM, iPad Pro 12.9", Apple Pencil .  Software tools of my trade: Affinity Designer | Affinity Publisher | PDF Expert | Drafts | Editorial | Plutio  

https://eandrpublications.com.au

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