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Doctez

Trying to edit the same photo between AP vs PS: Question

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Hi Guys, sorry in advance for my bad english :$

I'm trying the trial version about Affinity Photo and that is what I found that doesn't work well:

- Editing size and hardness of brush is really annoying: in PS I just need to right-click and fix how I want or Alt+right-click to edit in the fastest way the settings. Can you implement this in the next version?

- Studio editing is pretty good but I can't group the tools, for example: if I want that all the tools selection are in a single group I can't do it, in PS I just need to drag them in a tool's icon tool to make them stay together.

- The Blemish Removal tool works only with circles and I can't drag that... Under, in the info, there also written DRAG: bug or drag is just to select where Photo have to take the pixels to correct? IMHO Should be a brush...

- During the selection work on PS if I press Shift I can add the next drag to my selection, if I use Alt I will delete. Can you implement also that please?

- Develop Persona: There's somethings that doens't work good:

  1. I can't work simultaneously on more raws image (if I have a sequence I want to edit in the same way all the shots in syncro...)
  2. The raw edited can't be closed and worked later: I'll lose all my corrections. Can you fix that? Just like the .xmp files of ACR or in the metadata like LR
  3. I can't find the HSL panel that I use really much on PS or LR, can you implement please?

Last thing: can you encourage people to create panels also for you? TK Panels and Beauty Retouch is a must for my workflow in landscape and portrait..!

 

 

However Affinity Photo is a really, really, REALLY good: Smooth, fast, unexpensive, etc. If I think that you are just at 1.5 version... Wow. Keep up to good work! When you'll fix this problems I'll surely buy and incentivate my friends to buy the program. Thanks to have made a good competitor of Photoshop! =D 

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Hi Doctez,

Welcome to Affinity Forums :)

 

1. You can change the size and hardness of the brushes holding alt + right mouse button then pressing the left mouse button (keep alt+ right mouse button pressed all the time) and dragging horizontally (size) or vertically (hardness).You can also use the  [ and ] keys to increase/decrease the size of the brush (those last two can be customised in tthe Preferences, Keyboard Shortcust section).

 

2. No, currently that's not possible customise (group) the tools.

 

3. To use the Blemish Removal Tool, click and hold over the element you want to fix then drag to choose the source area you want to use to fix it. While you drag you should see a preview of how the fix will look where you first clicked.

 

4. This functionality is already implemented but the modifier keys are different: press and hold the right mouse button then press the left mouse button and drag (keep the right mouse button pressed all the time) to add to the selection; press and hold ALT and drag using just the left mouse button to subtract from the selection. We are aware this is not the most intuitive combo but since Windows only provides three modifier keys we had to pick these for now.

 

5. Regarding Develop Persona: these functions are common in digital management software (DAM) like Lightroom or Aperture. Affinity Photo is a RAW converter/developer and photo editing app more comparable to Adobe Camera RAW + Adobe Photoshop. It's not intended to be used to manage libraries, sync edits between photos of the same photoshoot, or save these edits as XMP sidecar files or to a database like most DAM software does. We do intend to develop a DAM software later. There's an HSL panel/adjustment in Photo Persona.

 

Currently we don't support any kind or scripting or provide any API to implement third party functionality. This may be considered for later.

 

Thank you for you feedback and support.

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3 hours ago, Doctez said:

- Studio editing is pretty good but I can't group the tools, for example: if I want that all the tools selection are in a single group I can't do it, in PS I just need to drag them in a tool's icon tool to make them stay together.

You can't mix tools from different Personas, if that is what you mean, but you can customize which tools appear in each Persona & how they are arranged in the Tools panel:

• From the View menu, select "Customize tools ..."

• In the window that opens you can choose how many columns the panel should have & drag & drop any of the tools onto or off of the panel, as well as dragging the ones in the panel to different positions.

• Note that some of the tool icons contain multiple tools but each individual tool also has an icon, so you can mix & match & arrange them in any way you want.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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@R C-R: You have understood wrong, MEB gone right :) Thanks you at the same

@MEB: Thanks you and sorry if I don't found those things before! =)

1 hour ago, MEB said:

3. To use the Blemish Removal Tool, click and hold over the element you want to fix then drag to choose the source area you want to use to fix it. While you drag you should see a preview of how the fix will look where you first clicked.

5. Regarding Develop Persona: these functions are common in digital management software (DAM) like Lightroom or Aperture. Affinity Photo is a RAW converter/developer and photo editing app more comparable to Adobe Camera RAW + Adobe Photoshop. It's not intended to be used to manage libraries, sync edits between photos of the same photoshoot, or save these edits as XMP sidecar files or to a database like most DAM software does. We do intend to develop a DAM software later. There's an HSL panel/adjustment in Photo Persona.

 

Currently we don't support any kind or scripting or provide any API to implement third party functionality. This may be considered for later.

 

Thank you for you feedback and support.

u're welcome.

3: Ok so I've understood right... I suggest you to let it can be dragged so who want to go only with circles can do that or who want to make sharp can also do that... and maybe it can have the editable destination like the Develop Persona's "Blemish removal tool"

5: Adobe Camera RAW save the corrections in metadata (if at the end you click close or open and not cancel if you re-open the file you keep have the corrections) and have the work in sync (open all the shots you want, select all of them and work: ACR make the edit on all the photos until you doesn't deselect)... 

Hope you support them soon (Luminosity masks are really useful but now you've implemented only one level for lights, half and shadow (Wow!) more (6 level of selection) for them will be more useful! :)

Thanks you for the patience and speed to answer =D

I still want to renew the compliments ;)

 

EDIT: If there's the correct place, meanwhile I work in this trial with AP I write all the suggestion I found =) 

Edited by Doctez

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On 27/10/2017 at 8:57 AM, Doctez said:
  1. The raw edited can't be closed and worked later: I'll lose all my corrections. Can you fix that? Just like the .xmp files of ACR or in the metadata like LR

Once you edit the RAW file it is no longer a RAW file. If you save in the default .afphoto format, your corrections are preserved there. Unless you tell it otherwise, it also preserves the History. So, you have similar information as might be saved as an .xmp file, but in a different format.  If you want to save what you have done in develop, you can save these as a preset.


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.7 and Designer 1.7, (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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11 minutes ago, John Rostron said:

Once you edit the RAW file it is no longer a RAW file. If you save in the default .afphoto format, your corrections are preserved there. Unless you tell it otherwise, it also preserves the History. So, you have similar information as might be saved as an .xmp file, but in a different format.  If you want to save what you have done in devlop, you can save these as a preset.

But I have to save presets for every sheets and apply one per one when I re-open the file... That's not logic or clever, imho...

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The preset allows you to apply settings to other files, but you can equally apply it to the same Raw file again. It is not as automatic as ACR, but it works. Perfectly logical and clever, just not the way Adobe does it.


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.7 and Designer 1.7, (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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Ok but I don't find clever and fluid that everytime I re-open the same RAW I have to rework or re-apply sheets per sheets... And After 5 - 6 events with more than 10 stage per events I'll have 60 presets where I have to found every time the right preset... Repeat: I don't find this solution logic...

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23 minutes ago, Doctez said:

@R C-R: You have understood wrong, MEB gone right

Sorry for the misunderstanding. However, if you mean mixing & grouping tools from different Personas into one Tool panel, it is unlikely that will ever be supported for three reasons:

1. A primary design feature of the Affinity apps is to split functions into the different Personas. This is done to reduce clutter in both the Tool panel & in the main Toolbar & to allow the apps to run on smaller screens without the need to do excessive scrolling or resort to other means to cram everything into one UI.

2. Many of the tools & main toolbar items only apply to one Persona, so mixing tools from different Personas would mean a lot of items were greyed out unless you were in the appropriate one.

3. Splitting functions into different Personas allows various "under the hood" optimizations in the code that reduce memory & CPU requirements. This is part of what makes the Affinity apps responsive enough to provide realtime previews of effects, blend modes, etc., to handle extremely large files without taxing the system, & to run on relatively low powered hardware.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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3 minutes ago, Doctez said:

Ok but I don't find clever and fluid that everytime I re-open the same RAW I have to rework or re-apply sheets per sheets...

Why would you need to do that?


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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Just now, R C-R said:

Why would you need to do that?

Because in a wedding work I can't post-product all in a working day... So I open all the shots in (now) ACR and, selecting all the raws, apply my default settings and delete the wrong shots and I press close so my shots will be ready to be worked and deleted in only one step. After this I open stage per stage applying to all the shots of that more accurately corrections and I make a more thorough selection... So on for all the stages and after all of that I begin to work the remained shots (the best) in PS.

So I open the raw 3-4 times :)

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1 hour ago, Doctez said:

Ok but I don't find clever and fluid that everytime I re-open the same RAW I have to rework or re-apply sheets per sheets... And After 5 - 6 events with more than 10 stage per events I'll have 60 presets where I have to found every time the right preset... Repeat: I don't find this solution logic...

Perhaps I've missed something, but you don't reopen the RAW file, you open the .afphoto file.  If you've chosen to save the history you can go back to a previous point in your work, but you don't need to start again.  


AP user, running Win10

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RAW editing in AP is not non-destructive like in Lightroom. You open RAW, edit and save to AP native format (or export to delivery format). Original RAW stays as it was but has no edits saved with it. If you want non-destructive with saved edits you need Lightroom or similar.

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3 hours ago, Doctez said:

So I open the raw 3-4 times :)

 

Well, a tiny change in your working practice and you could do the same thing in Photo.

 

Rather than save the first edit back as RAW files, save them as Photo files. Then you can load and change them as normal. That seems more logical to me, unless you particularly like the raw format ?

 

All new software needs some learning and adapting to get the best from it. If not, there would never be any progress and we would still all be using MS DOS.


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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On 10/27/2017 at 7:24 PM, toltec said:

Rather than save the first edit back as RAW files, save them as Photo files. Then you can load and change them as normal. That seems more logical to me, unless you particularly like the raw format ?

Toltec describes the correct workflow. But I think the point is that you lose original maximum information when you move away from RAW. At some point it cannot be avoided anyway.

Basically when you develop RAW you make some decisions what data to keep, how to translate some data to target colorspace, what geometry  alterations to make, etc. There are not too many steps though -- you make instructions how to present RAW in few minutes. After that you can save to affinity format and thus discard unnecessary RAW information (keeping original RAW in safe place of course). Now you have an optimized affinity file which you can edit, save, close and open as much as you want.

Again, non-destructive RAW developing and cataloguing is something else, but you do not necessarily need it.

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Ok I've understand your way to work. But in a landscape shot I need that I can edit my RAW also after many actions... I also need that the raw do not become a jpg because I often need to create two edit of the same shot and blend it later or edit and I lose all my shadow recovery potential... So if you don't want to let that AP save the edit (mah...) please let me use the RAW with edit while I'm processing it...

However you tell me that I need to save the file as .afphoto but I will have a simply file (of 200MB) without my edit included but only with the results of them in a bigger JPG... I don't find it useful... maybe if I upload one of my work you can understand why I need so much that my raw still stay that until I don't save or until I press Ctrl+shift+alt+E

 

EDIT: I don't know how much you stay or how you work on your shots but trust me that people like Enrico Fossati, Mythlands, etc. work on their raw more than once because the step to transform it in a jpg is just after many levels...

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On ‎27‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 6:24 PM, toltec said:

Well, a tiny change in your working practice and you could do the same thing in Photo.

Rather than save the first edit back as RAW files, save them as Photo files. Then you can load and change them as normal. That seems more logical to me, unless you particularly like the raw format ?

All new software needs some learning and adapting to get the best from it. If not, there would never be any progress and we would still all be using MS DOS.

Ok, We need to change and I agreed on that. But if I can't work also with adjustement levels on my raw I lose MUCH potential of my camera recovery.

And, again, if my raw become instantly a jpg and I lose all my edit data of my raw what benefits I'll have saving that as .afphoto?

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26 minutes ago, Doctez said:

And, again, if my raw become instantly a jpg and I lose all my edit data of my raw what benefits I'll have saving that as .afphoto?

Anything you save in the .afphoto file format does not become a jpeg, a tiff, a png, or whatever -- that only happens if you export the file to one of those formats. The only thing you lose is the settings used to develop the RAW image if they are different from any presets you have created.

 

So for example, once you develop the RAW file in AP you can add adjustment layers, masks, live filter layers, crops, & such to the document (all of which are non-destructive), as well as destructive filters (which can be applied to duplicates or via snapshots in an "undoable" way), & so on. If you save your work in the .afphoto format, you can open the file at any time in the future & still have all the layers, adjustments, etc. in the file, ready to be edited/reedited/deleted as you see fit, & add any other edits you want.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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Ok, I know that, it's just .psd for AP and that's not a problem to understand but in PSD the raw can be opened as Special Object and with 2 clicks on that level and PS open Camera Raw with all the edit as you done it and ready to be changed. There's also the possibility to "Duplicate a copy of the object" to have the same raw (without enlarge the size or engraving the pc performance) ready to be edited in two way completely different and later with mask you can blend them together [I can do a raw-edit for the shadow and midtones with cold mood and, duplicating the raw, you change only the Temperature and the tint (keeping the edit below intact) to edit the shot for a warm light. After that with luminosity masks you can blend the second raw only with lights powering the contrast].

 

When I'm at home this evening I'll upload a .psd file of my last shot to let you understand how I work a landscape with high contrast

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If you need to develop a RAW file in two different ways to combine the results, in Affinity Photo you could open the RAW file twice in two different documents, develop each one separately & then add one of them to the other document. Perhaps not as convenient as with PS, but doable.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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23 minutes ago, R C-R said:

If you need to develop a RAW file in two different ways to combine the results, in Affinity Photo you could open the RAW file twice in two different documents, develop each one separately & then add one of them to the other document. Perhaps not as convenient as with PS, but doable.

But If at the end of the blending action I'm not satisfied for some edit (too less shadow recovery and with a jpg I can't recovery the shadow like a raw, tint, clarity, etc.) I just need to do a double click on one object to open it with all my edit and fix it (also more times until I'm satisfied) instead of open again the raw, try to remember all my edit (or load it one sheet per one), fix what I think is wrong, press ok insert it to the file to work, apply the mask and hope that's good because if it isn't I have to re-made all this steps again and again...

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Why do you keep talking about jpegs?


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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18 minutes ago, Doctez said:

Because after you press Develop, the RAW become an RGB file, like a jpg.

No, that is not an even remotely accurate or useful comparison. Affinity files can use any of seven different color formats at bit depths ranging from 8 to 32 bits (only three of which use the RGB color space), & can contain an unlimited number of layers, which support various kinds of blending & transparency ranging from 0 to 100%. They use only lossless compression & may include multiple bitmap (raster) images as well as vector & text objects, plus histories, snapshots, thumbnails, document level color palettes, & several other kinds of data. 

 

JPEGs are limited to single layer ("flat") bitmap image file. All the widely supported versions use lossy compression, an 8 bit RGB color space, & cannot support transparency.


Affinity Photo 1.7.1 & Affinity Designer 1.7.1; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.0.135 & Affinity Designer 1.7.0.9 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iOS 12.3.1

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51 minutes ago, Doctez said:

Because after you press Develop, the RAW become an RGB file, like a jpg.

A jpg may be RGB, but an RGB is not necessarily a jpg. An image only becomes a jpg when it is exported. You can save/export your developed RAW in a variety of formats. Even after exporting as a jpg you have not lost any information. You can still save or export in any other format. Note that if you save as a .afphoto file, then you have not lost any information (unless you choose to do so).


Windows 10, Affinity Photo 1.7 and Designer 1.7, (mainly Photo), now ex-Adobe CC

CPU: AMD A6-3670. RAM: 16 GB DDR3 @ 666MHz, Graphics: 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 630

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