Forum vs. forum

[rubs]

Despite not having any active beta right now, I see this forum is still quite active. I'm trying to behave according to the rules so I'm posting questions elsewehere, But some topics become quickly buried below a lot of new ones and staff answers are slower. On the other hand, this Beta forum seems to get a lot of quality answers and more attention from the developers than the forums under the label Affinity Support. Does anyone else also feel this is the case, or I'm just imagining things?... Thanks

[Bri-Toon]

Honestly, I haven't noticed this section getting more or less involvement than others. As you said, the forum is very active, so it's easy for a topic to be overlooked. Have you posted any concerns which haven't gotten a response?

[rubs]

Honestly, I haven't noticed this section getting more or less involvement than others.

 

It ocurred to me AD may not be getting so much attention in the other forums because AD is mixed with Affinity Photo which seems to be the focus right now. Or, as I said, maybe it's just my imagination  ;)

 

Have you posted any concerns which haven't gotten a response?

 

Well, there's at least this topic. A big performance issue concerning AD. I'd very much like to hear other people's experiences.

[Bri-Toon]

It ocurred to me AD may not be getting so much attention in the other forums because AD is mixed with Affinity Photos which seems to be the focus right now. Or, as I said, maybe it's just my imagination  ;)

 

I have noticed that much. Affinity Photo is definitely in the spotlight right now. Being a big time vector fan, I do want to see more involvement with Designer. Many vector features can be accomplished in Photo, so Designer doesn't stand out too much. Photo is packed with vector and photo editing.

 

Well, there's at least this topic. A big performance issue concerning AD. I'd very much like to hear other people's experiences.

 

 

It may not be the type of feedback you were looking for, but I'll add in my experience.

[SrPx]

I wouldn't be worried about either of 'em. Just cut them some slack. Photo is replacing PS for many users who dislike subscription and even some guys who wouldn't have spent the +2000 bucks that the pair of tools (as after all would have needed then the suite) that costed in pre subscription time. AD is already replacing for many AI. So, both are very big  things.  :) 

 

As for the developers not present in the forums, I like to think that as a good sign... : They might be intensively working on the actual products ! :)  ;).

 

[Chris B]

I think without an active beta, things will die down as there is nothing new to find/test and as SrPx says, it is generally a good sign that we see less posts and developer input as it means the beta's are doing their job before release. 
 

I can assure you that they are still working solidly on Designer as well as Photo  :P

[Bri-Toon]

I'm not worried about it. I think the lack of Affinity Designer discussions right now is just a phase. Photo was the last product that launched a most recent version, so it will be in the spotlight until the next version of Designer is released. I'm looking forward to it too. Designer is more of my program.

[Keith Reeder]

Photo is replacing PS for many users who dislike subscription

 

And probably just as many - like me - who have no problem with Adobe, and who think the subscription deal is a fantastic thing.

 

The only reason I've moved to Photo from PhotoShop CC is that it does what I need of it.

 

You undersell it by implying that the only (or the main) merit of Photo is that it provides a way out of Adobe's subscription charging.

[brunzenstein]

 

 

You undersell it by implying that the only (or the main) merit of Photo is that it provides a way out of Adobe's subscription charging.

Maybe - but the argument to buy, own and use a product as, how and when you like is a strong one.

Forced subscription by a mandarin controlling the market is a business model of the past.  

[SrPx]

And probably just as many - like me - who have no problem with Adobe, and who think the subscription deal is a fantastic thing.

 

Actually, AP has its own set of advantages and personality, I would agree with that.  But not with the matter subscription be anything fantastic, or even just good. Is a model many companies are trying to covert to (same us for some time, it seemed all game companies wanted to get to the freemium model, right now, that might be not the case, or that's my personal perception about how that trend is going), as so you get more money -a a tad lot more-  from the user in the long run, but is definitely not the best for the users. Although it's key how each company adopts it. IMO, is very clever to use the "avoid subscription" slogan, as is clearly one of the main reasons why so many people is here (IMO, specially with the super clever move of doing both Windows and Mac versions). Since I visited first time this forum, I've read tons of times people being pissed off by that model, and being it the main reason to be here. IMO, to mention it is not business error, but quite the opposite. That said, I'd never question PS or AI quality (but btw, both have some important flaws, even today, and me being quite expert with both) . A small company must  use, IMO, a good selling point or marketing strategy, as it is already a hard situation for them against the big fishes. Also, forcing people to rent instead of owning a license, one payment, this is , IMO, not nice. They are free to do that, but a lot of people will (they did) say goodbye. You have companies doing alternate ways, like Allegorythmic, not disallowing purchase, or giving only a highly overpriced very old version as the only chance. Heck, even MS Office, you can still purchase a home/students permanent version ! Which is what I always do when in charge of setting up a pc for some friend or family, never the 365.

 

I think is a great slogan to say, and personally, I really hope they keep using it, although is already out there in the social media, everywhere. Plus, I don't think it has to be taken as directly targeting Adobe, I mean, it IS by itself an amazing feature, "no subscription", if a package has a great advantage, be it some new great development, special pricing, or whatever that makes it shine among a lot more grey brands, companies and products, hey, I want to  know it, and if you put it in the front page, great !.  

 

Yesterday while browsing a CG site I check often thanks to certain industry related newsletter, I happen to see the banner from Autodesk... Lol... it reminded me my old times working really hard all day to do all characters, structures textures and items for many videogames... I really, really liked 3DS Max... Still... moved to Blender so much long ago... But the software with which I really established my 3D knowledge was with 3ds Studio, since its MS DOS times. Now they're too into the [censored by me] subscription model.. lol, 125 bucks a month. I mean, I TOTALLY get the advantages for BIG companies and that, both with Max and PS... If I had a company mid to large size, I'd probably do that... For an indy professional (and even more for the hobby case (some aficionados are way better than some professionals, btw, even while is not the usual thing)) this makes no sense at all,  The price model made me master Blender. And am sooo hapy I did it, as my doubts were about its capability in complex 3D. Now I realize that for my usual (professional!) needs, is way more than enough. I don't know in what situation 125 per month would worth it for me... Maybe having an income of 2500 from 3D activity only. Then yep, would make a sense. For many of us being jacks of all trades (2D , 3D, video, web, etc), not so much. 

 

I believe subscription is a good model when provided as one of the options. For users wanting to work always with the newest technology (and absolutely great for companies). As the single only way, well, best luck and wishes from me (and a large bunch of professionals, happily) and good bye.  There are great alternatives now. Before was already Gimp, MyPaint, Krita, which are absolutely amazing, and now with AP and AD, am fully set, meaning, less hard to do workarounds, thanks to this new 2 great tools. I will be always a multiple tools user, is in my nature, though... I've had job colleagues they could only make stuff with the main app, be it adobe suite, or their loved Max or Maya. That's great, to get a job and all, but IMO, a bit limiting. There are always in most apps, something specially well developed, compared even with the big dogs solutions. So, why not using those for that... But I'm going off topic here. As much as I would like to (as I tend to agree with most of your posts), I can't agree about the subscription model being good... if provided as the single only option. There's people happy with an old version. I worked in my last company using just cs2 for years, and it served really well, and did its job amazingly well in every image related field, and in every low powered old crappy pc they did set up for me (nah, i set 'em all up, lol)  in that company, while cs3, 4, 5, 6 went making its appearances... No need for more. For stuff that totally depends on using the most recent advances, like anything painting  related, as , digitally painting,  and much more in comics and line-art  in general) imo is very demanding, for that yep, I like to keep updated till the very last thing. But it depends on the case and user, so, IMO, they would not have provoked such an enormous disband and negative reaction if provided just as an option, I'd even be fine -and a lot like me, am sure-  just knowing an old version is all you get if no subscription model would be chosen. To put an example, instead of being forced only to go to a complex phone based path to purchase the arcane CS6, after avoiding every obstacle  put by the company to make you change your mind, instead of that, a cc 2014 or 15, and let me have to wait one year to get 2017. I'm speaking of PURCHASING it, which is, last time I checked, a nice amount of dollars in one go for them. I'd be fine to get a one year or 2 year old version, heck, even a 3 year old version (btu having always that possibility, not as sth to disappear, like surely is the cs6 possibility), when I would be to buy a full license. But no....Subscription only or CS 6.  So... While I'll use Adobe in companies, as is what they have and I have top skills with those, I'm all for AP, AD, and open source (Gimp, krita, Mypaint, etc).

 

I deeply respect users not thinking the other way, though, but I can't agree...

[Keith Reeder]

The underlying point of my last post is that your personal opinions of Adobe/PhotoShop/subscription pricing are irrelevant to the point of this topic (and arguably off-topic for the entire forum) SrPx and brunzenstein.

 

I get it - you're not fans. It's simply not relevant to the matter this thread is discussing; and - honestly - after all this time, this continued Adobe-bashing is pretty tiresome.

 

But since we're here...

 

Forced subscription by a mandarin controlling the market is a business model of the past.  

 

Wanna bet?

 

SaaS - like it or not - is what the future looks like, and you're probably using the model right now - many of us have online backup/recovery services for example, and they're the same model.

 

Or - although it's not software - you do exactly the same thing to get access to the internet; use your telephone; have water, gas and electricity in your house; and keep a roof over your head.

 

Great that Affinity isn't taking that approach, but it's happening all over, more and more: the fact that its introduction by Adobe has been such an enormous success will not have gone unnoticed. Both Phase One and ACD Systems introduced a subscription option after Adobe's success.

 

Oh, and unless this "mandarin" is standing there with a gun to your head, nobody "forces" you to subscribe.

[brunzenstein]

I agree with most of your extremely long elaborate.

To cut a long argument short.

May it be politics, business or art:

 

A single monopolist dictating the rules is not helpful- to put it mildly:

 

cartel (kɑːˈtɛl)

 

1. (Economics) Also called: trust a collusive international association of independent enterprises formed to monopolize production and distribution of a product or service, control prices, etc

2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) politics an alliance of parties or interests to further common aims

[rubs]

Hi guys, I believe we are quickly drifting away from the subject, aren't we? Let's stay on topic here, please. Thanks!!

[brunzenstein]

 

Oh, and unless this "mandarin" is standing there with a gun to your head, nobody "forces" you to subscribe.

Dead wrong!

The mandarin is currently standing with a machine gun to the users heads and toes.

If you fail to pay your subscription (ransom) to Adobe your not anymore able to access your work - nothing, nada, zero, zilch!

That cannot happen with a software you own.

If this argument is not enough, nothing else will convince you.

[brunzenstein]

Hi guys, I believe we are quickly drifting away from the subject, aren't we? Let's stay on topic here, please. Thanks!!

The subject is how an artist can protect his work for the days to come. And thats impossible with a software based on a subscription model which cuts you out of your own drawings the moment you fail to pay - and thats not the case with Serif's business buy model.

I question:

Is this of so minor importance?

[rubs]

The subject is how an artist can protect his work for the days to come. And thats impossible with a software based on a subscription model which cuts you out of your own drawings the moment you fail to pay - and thats not the case with Serif's business buy model.

I question:

Is this of so minor importance?

 

No, of course this is an important matter, no doubt about it. I'm just trying to cool things down here a llitle bit by reminding everyone that the original subject was about this forum being or not more active than others.

[SrPx]

SaaS - like it or not - is what the future looks like, and you're probably using the model right now - many of us have online backup/recovery services for example, and they're the same model.

 

 

Yep, that was the one only point (and maybe the 'adjectives' ;) ) I was not really agreeing. I wish it was as brunzenstein said, a thing from the past, while is, very very sadly, a thing invading our lives (yet I'm seeing a trend now bouncing back from it... ). Yeah, you can silently embrace it and be submissive about it, or at least make a different set of choices : My way. I, for example, do not make/or pay for cloud back ups (had to do while in a company, and it was far from ideal). In a way, my almost OCD lack of capability of trusting what other people is going to make with my backups,  so, I store locally, in external drives, in different drives, and even keep a disk in a different house !  Though that last one is updated very from time to time. As an independent professional, I do eliminate as many monthly bills as I can, as I firmly believe that is very key. Is not only for money reasons, is also to keep certain level of control, and flexibility. SAAS applications leave such a lot to be desired in so, so  many cases. More specially for the hardcore user needing performance and extreme flexibility. Yeah, of course, we've always have had the phone bill, gas, electricity, etc (nothing new, that's been there since I was born forty "something" years ago). Is one of the main reasons am not so super happy to add even more. An old company owner -very successful- told me once: Man, the key is stop adding monthly bills just because somehow you can afford it and feels more comfortable, and instead, make clever one-time good investments. They convinced a lot of people to enter this so much more convenient model (for the providing companies, IMO not so much for us) of them getting better income, and controlling their user base way better, and make them totally dependent on their SAAS stuff. Great for them. But you have choices, at least in a number of things (not all).  Bashing? I'm bashing a commercial/business move, not the products, which are excellent (no thing on earth is perfect, though, but that'd be quite different to bashing). If an user base is formed in a large portion by people running away from a very specific "purchase" model, what would you expect to read in the forums of that user base?  IMO, is sth to expect...

 

I'm sorry, being one of the main culprits of the off topic. In my defense: I felt that was covered already, somehow (I replied to the original topic in its time, and indeed, you rplied with sort of some relief in getting feedback on maybe it not being as you believed -back then- ), and it was, more than "drifting", having an interesting branch.

Even in RL am quite fan of conversation being sth organic which have not to be specially rigid about being all the time about an initial subject, but that's me against the whole internet,(like in people going all mobile and all SAAS. But mass movements need not to be the cleverest ones. Populism success is based on that. ) battle lost.   ;)

[Bri-Toon]

Not to stick my nose in other people's business, but I agree with Rubs that we're getting off topic here. Affinity works differently rather than to follow the regular forceful and tempting competitors, which I see in Keith's example about a gun, obligations can consume a person because of fear, but it is very irrelevant for this kind of topic about forum comparisons. Don't you think? After all, that was the main discussion. But I can relate to the very powerful message. I am constantly exploring ways to create a better world, myself. I just don't think this is the place to discuss it.

[SrPx]

Ok, fair enough. Cya.

[Chris_K]

This has gone too far from what was the original topic for the thread of forum use. Just to be clear on the original topic, if you find an issue with a beta build then post in the relevant beta section. If it is a regular release build please post your issues in the Bugs on Windows section. This allows us to more easily identify the version of the app you are having the issue with.