Localizable Sentences and Esperanto

[William Overington]

A document written directly into Affinity Publisher and then exported as a PDF document.

William

 

notes_comparing_and_contrasting_localizable_sentences_and_Esperanto.pdf

[William Overington]

No discussion yet.

The following thread started slowly, yet worked out.

So maybe this one will too.

William

 

[John Rostron]

Perhaps it is because, like me, people cannot understand what you are taking about. Even after googling the phrase.

PS, what is the work you are sharing?

John

[Alfred]

22 hours ago, William Overington said:

No discussion yet.

‘Good day.’ isn’t really a sentence, it’s just an interjection. Discuss.

Quote

Localizable sentences are expressed in two ways that can be used either separately or together as desired. These two possibilities are each by an abstract language-independent symbol, and each by a code number expressed as an exclamation mark followed by digits, thus to avoid such a code number being confused with a number as such.

Given that you can use a code number to mean exactly the same thing, what is the advantage of using a symbol that can’t be typed without a special font?

[PaulEC]

I'm obviously missing something (nothing new for me!), but I don't quite understand what is meant by "Localizable sentences can be applied without needing to be learned." Surely you need to learn what all these symbols mean, otherwise what is the point in using them? If you need to use some sort of code book to decipher them then, as Alfred said, why not just use code numbers? (At least numbers can be indexed easily.) 

[William Overington]

Thank you all for replying.

I will try to reply in separate posts.

William

 

[William Overington]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:31 PM, Alfred said:

‘Good day.’ isn’t really a sentence, it’s just an interjection. Discuss.

Oh yes it is!

The code is

!123

Now if you had mentioned

Best regards,

The code is

!987

that has the implied expectation of a name following, then that is not a whole sentence.

Best regards,

was suggested by Magnus Bodin, who very kindly made a very helpful contribution in 2009 by localizing the initial experimental sentences into Swedish, thus enabling a conversation through the language barrier to be demonstrated..

Unicode Mail List Archive: Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment

On 6/22/2023 at 7:31 PM, Alfred said:

Given that you can use a code number to mean exactly the same thing, what is the advantage of using a symbol that can’t be typed without a special font?

In some circumstances, displaying the symbol on a poster can be useful.

!987

William

 

 

[William Overington]

On 6/22/2023 at 8:07 PM, PaulEC said:

I'm obviously missing something (nothing new for me!), but I don't quite understand what is meant by "Localizable sentences can be applied without needing to be learned." Surely you need to learn what all these symbols mean, otherwise what is the point in using them? If you need to use some sort of code book to decipher them then, as Alfred said, why not just use code numbers? (At least numbers can be indexed easily.) 

As far as I know not yet implemented, even experimentally, but I envisage having a drop down list in an email system, with the available sentences listed in the language of one's choice in a cascading menu system. Clicking on the chosen sentence inserts the code code number in the form of an exclamation mark followed by a positive integer.

At the reception end, the codes are decoded into the language chosen by the person receiving the message.

The following slide show might help explain my thinking.

slide_show_about_localizable_sentences (globalnet.co.uk)

The slide show and other research documents are available from the following page.

Localizable Sentences Research (globalnet.co.uk)

Another example is in the following chapter of my first novel.

localizable_sentences_the_novel_chapter_079 (globalnet.co.uk)

!987

William

 

 

[William Overington]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:16 PM, John Rostron said:

Perhaps it is because, like me, people cannot understand what you are taking about. Even after googling the phrase.

John

A gentle introduction is in my first novel.

Localizable Sentences The Novel (globalnet.co.uk)

On 6/22/2023 at 7:16 PM, John Rostron said:

PS, what is the work you are sharing?

John

A PDF document produced using Affinity Publisher.

 

William

[William Overington]

The present final section of

Talk:Telesoftware - Wikipedia

has more information about localizable sentences.

William

 

[Alfred]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:31 PM, Alfred said:

‘Good day.’ isn’t really a sentence, it’s just an interjection. Discuss.

 

2 hours ago, William Overington said:

Oh yes it is!

A sentence comprises, at a minimum, a subject and either (a) an intransitive verb or (b) a transitive verb and an object. Where’s the verb in ‘Good day.’?

 

[walt.farrell]

16 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

A sentence comprises, at a minimum, a subject and either (a) an intransitive verb or (b) a transitive verb and an object. Where’s the verb in ‘Good day.’?

 

But one of them can be implied, and in this case the implied verb is "Have (a)". Or perhaps there's even more implied, as in "I hope you have a ...".

[William Overington]

2 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

A sentence comprises, at a minimum, a subject and either (a) an intransitive verb or (b) a transitive verb and an object. Where’s the verb in ‘Good day.’?

 

I am not a linguist, yet I think that it may be an example of ellipsis.

ellipsis - Search (bing.com)

A shortened form of

I wish to you a good day.

Thus the verb is "wish".

Thus "day" being the direct object.

In Esperanto, Good day is

Bonan tagon.

and not Bona tago. This is because in Esperanto, a letter n is added to indicate a singular direct object. A plural direct object ends inn (sounds like oyn in English).

In English the "you" in the underlying sentence does not need the "to" as word order does the task, but in Esperanto, although word order is often as in English, a case other than subject is either indicated by n or jn for direct object or by using a preposition. There is even a preposition to use if it is not clear which preposition is most appropriate

Mi volas al vi bonan tagon

(ellipsis) Bonan tagon.

William

 

[Alfred]

29 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

But one of them can be implied, and in this case the implied verb is "Have (a)". Or perhaps there's even more implied, as in "I hope you have a ...".

 

23 minutes ago, William Overington said:

I am not a linguist, yet I think that it may be an example of ellipsis.

ellipsis - Search (bing.com)

You’re both correct, of course, but William has shot down his own argument about ‘Best regards’ not being a sentence, since the latter is shorthand for something like ‘I send you my best regards.’

[William Overington]

What I particularly like about researching about localizable sentences is that it is multidisciplinary.

Poetry,

localizable_sentences_the_novel_chapter_034 (globalnet.co.uk)

Practical applications,

localizable_sentences_the_novel_chapter_042 (globalnet.co.uk)

Graphic design,

localizable_sentences_the_novel_chapter_042 (globalnet.co.uk) again

Encoding

localizable_sentences_the_second_novel_chapter_002 (globalnet.co.uk)

localizable_sentences_the_second_novel_chapter_006 (globalnet.co.uk)

And also, around it, creative writing in two novels and a spin-off novel, one complete, one over half complete and one just a bit written.

And art.

William

 

[William Overington]

12 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

... , but William has shot down his own argument about ‘Best regards’ not being a sentence, since the latter is shorthand for something like ‘I send you my best regards.’

!81812345679

That is because there is even localizable sentence humour!

Maybe @Alfred will explain.please?

William

 

[Alfred]

Just now, William Overington said:

!81812345679

That is because there is even localizable sentence humour!

Maybe @Alfred will explain.please?

William

 

Possibly!

[William Overington]

The humour is because in the novels, one of the characters sometimes (possibly often) uses the word "possibly" rather than give a different answer.

William

 

[William Overington]

32 minutes ago, William Overington said:

The humour is because in the novels, one of the characters sometimes (possibly often) uses the word "possibly" rather than give a different answer.

William

 

And because the eleven digit code is nevertheless a valid code, as the first digit and the third digit both being the same indicate that many subsequent digits, and those digits are chosen to be a memorable sequence, yet such that the  whole sequence does not include any digit more than twice.

I am hoping to include it arising in a er ... discussion ... between two characters in a chapter of the second novel.

William

 

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

those digits are chosen to be a memorable sequence, yet such that the  whole sequence does not include any digit more than twice

If you haven’t actually done so, it’s fun to investigate what happens when you multiply 12345679 by whole multiples of 9.

[William Overington]

21 minutes ago, Alfred said:

If you haven’t actually done so, it’s fun to investigate what happens when you multiply 12345679 by whole multiples of 9.

Wow!

An infinite sequence of Alfred numbers!

William

 

[William Overington]

@Alfred How did yoy discover that?

Was it "just obvious" ?

William

 

[William Overington]

There is a free Esperanto course at Duolingo.

Free Language Courses for English Speakers - Duolingo

I am using Duolingo to add to my book-learnt Esperanto, and to learn some Welsh and some Dutch from zero.

Learning some Dutch (Page 1) — Art & Literature — Alfred's Serif Users' Forums (punster.me)

Your profile is default public, but can be turned off.

William

 

[Alfred]

21 minutes ago, William Overington said:

@Alfred How did yoy discover that?

Was it "just obvious" ?

William

 

It might be obvious to some people, but I was only aware of it because I read about it many years ago! It works because 1/81 is 

0.012345679012345679012…

So you get an effect similar to multiplying 142857 by positive integers up to and including 7, which works because 1/7 is

0.14285714285714…

[v_kyr]

7 hours ago, Alfred said:

If you haven’t actually done so, it’s fun to investigate what happens when you multiply 12345679 by whole multiples of 9.

Well, that's an old hat (as we say in german) and kids usually learn that in school math.

Same as ...

The Gaussian sum formula: add numbers from 1 to 100. So the question is about adding all the values up to a given "n" value, for example "1+2+3+4+5+... + 100".

According to tradition, Gauss recognized this formula at the tender age of 9. In order to calm the boy, his mathematics teacher at the time, Büttner, is said to have given him a difficult task, which he assumed that the young Gauss would only be able to solve after much deliberation. The story is handed down by Gauss's friend and colleague, Wolfgang Sartorius von Waltershausen:

"The young Gauss had hardly entered the arithmetic class when Büttner gave up the summation of an arithmetic series. The task had hardly been said, however, when Gauss threw the table on the table with the words spoken in the Lower Brunswick dialect: "Ligget se'." that of Gauss with a single number was on top and when Büttner checked the example, to the amazement of all those present, his was found to be correct, while many of the others were wrong and were immediately rectified (chastised) with the Karwatsche (leather whip).”

... the above story about Gauss is as I too heard it from my math teacher, once in school about the origin of the Gauss sum formula!

See in english: Gauss Summation