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Localizable Sentences and Esperanto


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Thank you.

I knew the story about Gauss. I heard it as that he was given the task of adding up the numbers from 1 to 100 and he almost immediately wrote down 5050.

However, the part about 12345679 is new to me.

I chose it because in the story in my novel it is a sort of humour.

I am not sure quite how far I got with it, in that I tend to think out the story away from the computer, then later I write a chapter directly into the computer, later I read through it and perhaps alter a few words or add some text, then at some time I publish it on the web.

So maybe it is already on the web, maybe not. I need to check, which may mean reading through most of it.

If not, to include the spoken text as follows.

"So in which part of the code map do you envisage encoding this somewhat obscure entity?"

"8, 1, 8."

"And what digits do you suggest should follow the 8, 1, 8?"

"1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, .... .... 9."

"Oh, .... nicely done,....  very well, but just amongst ourselves, not to be included in any published list."

"Yes, ma'am."

William

 

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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I tend to think of it as like, say, viewing the Uffizi art gallery in Florence and the surrounding area, either by travelling there or by looking on Google streetview.

Going there takes quite an amount of effort yet one can look at all the details, looking on Google streetview can allow one to get some information without the effort of travelling there yet one can only view what someone who has gone there has photographed - one can "click in" to the virtual world and sort of "be there" until one chooses to walk down a particular side street and one just cannot go down there. Like if one in talking about the weather using localizable sentences and it is not possible to communicate "It is frosty." with localizable sentences at present. "it is frosty." could be added, but other weather conditions would still be unencoded. Yet there are not emoji for every possible picture, so it is the same sort of thing.

William

 

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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Buona giornata..

William

--

!123

William

~~~~

!123

William

--

Diwmod da.

William

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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45 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Why not “Buongiorno”? :/

I nearly used that, but on Google translate it seemed to mean Good morning.

But do you like that the example does not use English?

William

 

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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On 6/22/2023 at 7:16 PM, John Rostron said:

PS, what is the work you are sharing?

I asked this question, and was given the answer of a simple  Publisher document. 

The invitation at the beginning of the Share Your  Work forum invites members to offer their designs for appraisal. This could be for us to appraise the finished product ot the techniques used to produce it.

The document offered for appraisal seems very simple, almost trivial in technical terms. (Even I could have created this.) Yet, it seems to have generated a good number of responses (especially from the OP). None of these  seem relevant to the purpose of the Share Your Work thread. I would considerer this an inappropriate use of this forum.

I would be interested to hear what other contributors feel  before I report this to the moderators.

John

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2 hours ago, John Rostron said:

I would be interested to hear what other contributors feel  before I report this to the moderators.

I hesitate to suggest that this post be “report(ed) to the moderators,” but it remains true that @William Overington has posted quite a number of times regarding so-called “Localizable Sentences” and I have never quite understood why.

1 These sentences seem to be not appreciably different from simply writing in any foreign language. Although this “language” is written in graphic symbols rather than alphanumeric glyphs, why invent a new language when there are so many others that would suffice?

2 The OP is consistently the author of the majority of the posts in any of these threads. Often, days or weeks go by with only post after post from him alone.

3 I am baffled by the number of responses that these posts do generate. These graphically encapsulated sentences really don’t seem (to my mind) to have any significant benefit. Why not just write in English (or French, or Greek, etc.)? If I have to learn a new language to understand what is being written, why not learn an established language which is already spoken by many thousands (or millions) of people?

4 Most confusing of all, what does any of this have to do with any Affinity product?

I apologize for seeming to disparage Mr. Overington’s obvious passion. I don’t understand its importance, but the list of things I don’t understand is quite lengthy indeed. Perhaps the only thing I would ask is that he explain (in “layman’s terms”) why the average Affinity software user needs to know about any of this.

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3 hours ago, Alfred said:

Why not “Buongiorno”? :/

I nearly used that, but on Google translate it seemed to mean Good morning.

But do you like that the example does not use English?

William

 

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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743 views at the moment.

I have no way of knowing how many people are following all the links and delighting at seeing an inventor reaching for the stars with one of his inventions.

I remember reading the story of the inventor of Esperanto in my teens and being enthralled at his dream and his invention.

The Life of Zamenhof - Wikipedia

William

 

 

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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797 views so far 7:37 am Bitish Summer Time, Monday 26 June 2023..

 

> 1 These sentences seem to be not appreciably different from simply writing in any foreign language. Although this “language” is written in graphic symbols rather than alphanumeric glyphs, why invent a new language when there are so many others that would suffice?

It is sometimes convenient to think of the collection of localizable sentences as a language, Language Y. This is because there are standard codes to identify a language. Codes such as en, fr, eo and so on. In the system there is a facility for private use codes, so I use x-y for Language Y.

But they would not suffice. Language Y is intended as an intermediate auxiliary language, as is Esperanto, yet in a different way from Esperanto. The important consideration is conveying meaning through the language barrier.

> 2 The OP is consistently the author of the majority of the posts in any of these threads. Often, days or weeks go by with only post after post from him alone.

Yes. I would prefer lots of posts from other people, but I don't know how many people follow the links that I include.

For example, if I link to my first novel, free to read, no registration sought, I do not know how many people have read it.

Localizable Sentences The Novel (globalnet.co.uk)

It is rather a lot, so if you want to just read one chapter, then chapter 34 is a good chapter.

localizable_sentences_the_novel_chapter_034 (globalnet.co.uk)

> 3 I am baffled by the number of responses that these posts do generate. These graphically encapsulated sentences really don’t seem (to my mind) to have any significant benefit. Why not just write in English (or French, or Greek, etc.)? If I have to learn a new language to understand what is being written, why not learn an established language which is already spoken by many thousands (or millions) of people?

Does looking at this slide show provide an insight?

slide_show_about_localizable_sentences (globalnet.co.uk)

The slide show is accessible from the following web page.

Localizable Sentences Research (globalnet.co.uk)

> 4 Most confusing of all, what does any of this have to do with any Affinity product?

The document is produced using an Affinity product. Although not in this thread, most of the recent art that features the glyphs of localizable sentences was produced using Affiniy products.

 > Perhaps the only thing I would ask is that he explain (in “layman’s terms”) why the average Affinity software user needs to know about any of this.

Well, the average Affinity software user does not need to know about any of this.

If people want to read about this, think about the concepts, post, try making art using the symbols, imagine the research centre that is fictional, and so on, then great, but there is no need for them to do so. All freedom of choice.

William

 

 

 

 

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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An aspect of my research  is to compare and contrast the Chinese room

Chinese room - Wikipedia

with using Language Y to communicate meaning through the language barrier.

William

 

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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10 hours ago, William Overington said:

I remember reading the story of the inventor of Esperanto in my teens and being enthralled at his dream and his invention.

The Life of Zamenhof - Wikipedia

It’s interesting to note that L.L. Zamenhof is described as the “founder” of Esperanto, rather than its inventor.

3 hours ago, William Overington said:

> Perhaps the only thing I would ask is that he explain (in “layman’s terms”) why the average Affinity software user needs to know about any of this.

Please learn to use the ‘Quote’ feature on these forums. A leading ‘>’ symbol is fine for quoting in emails and Usenet posts, but it doesn’t link to the original forum message (and it also doesn’t stand out very well).

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1 hour ago, Alfred said:

It’s interesting to note that L.L. Zamenhof is described as the “founder” of Esperanto, rather than its inventor.

So described in the wikipedia article at least. I do not have my copy of The Life of Zamenhof (in English) to hand.

William

 

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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16 hours ago, John Rostron said:

I asked this question, and was given the answer of a simple  Publisher document. 

The invitation at the beginning of the Share Your  Work forum invites members to offer their designs for appraisal. This could be for us to appraise the finished product ot the techniques used to produce it.

The document offered for appraisal seems very simple, almost trivial in technical terms. (Even I could have created this.) Yet, it seems to have generated a good number of responses (especially from the OP). None of these  seem relevant to the purpose of the Share Your Work thread. I would considerer this an inappropriate use of this forum.

I would be interested to hear what other contributors feel  before I report this to the moderators.

I agree here, as I too can't see in such sort of postings any real value or relevance for this forum section's "Share your work" here. - The whole thread initially started just with some trivial notes about localizable sentences, esperanto and an replacement symbol. Then further only discusses some maybe research about those. The whole (such notes) in that state, could have been written down in any plain text editor, word processor, an APh/ADe text frame, or whatever. It's overall somehow like writting "Hello World!" into a APub doc and then present that (together with a waving hand symbol at the end) as some with APub created fabulous resulting work!

All in all, it seems to me that something is only being posted here desperately to achieve some communication, maybe out of boredom, or the lack of interlocutors, or the like. - In short, for me personally, this is not a presentation of anything that reflects the relevance and capabilities of the Affinity products or their possibilities (or the graphics and/or layout skills of the author in this context) here, in contrast to many other postings in this forum section!

 

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1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

All in all, it seems to me that something is only being posted here desperately to achieve some communication, ...

You are almost absolutely right, that is a good part of my reason for posting, but not the only part, it is intended as a genuine discussion, but, yes, basically you are correct.

 

1 hour ago, v_kyr said:

 maybe out of boredom, or the lack of interlocutors, or the like. - In short, for me personally, this is not a presentation of anything that reflects the relevance and capabilities of the Affinity products or their possibilities (or the graphics and/or layout skills of the author in this context) here, in contrast to many other postings in this forum section!

But not boredom. Nor lack of interlocutors either. But for a very good reason which I am not going to state in public.

But are you agreeing that "The invitation at the beginning of the Share Your  Work forum invites members to offer their designs for appraisal." because I could not find that text. I found no mention of appraisal.

Maybe it needs a nice lady to post LEAVE HIM ALONE, HE's A NICE MAN AND I FANCY HIM.

William

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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19 hours ago, John Rostron said:

I asked this question, and was given the answer of a simple  Publisher document. 

My answer was as follows.

----

 A PDF document produced using Affinity Publisher.

----

That is not the same type of document.

Also, I did not use the word "simple".

William

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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31 minutes ago, William Overington said:

Maybe it needs a nice lady

… or a nice man…

32 minutes ago, William Overington said:

to post LEAVE HIM ALONE, HE's A NICE MAN AND I FANCY HIM.

 

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1 hour ago, William Overington said:

But are you agreeing that "The invitation at the beginning of the Share Your  Work forum invites members to offer their designs for appraisal." because I could not find that text. I found no mention of appraisal.

This forum section title says just ...

Share your work

Post your fantastic designs for all to see.

But there is an additional locked to how-to posting ...

... which tells a few additional things here.

So if you think that your contributions here, do always exactly fall into that described category (which I personally don't think), somebody from the Affinity stuff has better to decide here (as they at least should know best how this forum section was meant to be used at all) and also if all what you always contribute here is such amazing work worth to be placed for a review by others here!

1 hour ago, William Overington said:

Maybe it needs a nice lady to post LEAVE HIM ALONE, HE's A NICE MAN AND I FANCY HIM.

You better find such a nice Lady in your near neighborhood, in case you don't already have one (so if you aren't married, or are a too long time single...etc.) and then better spend some constructive time with her!

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Oh, I took that about uploading to other places to refer to "top shelf stuff" in a newsagents, not the harmless stuff that I produce.

Not that I look at it, but I remember the days before a well-known newsagents chain got embarrassed by complaints from women going into the shops and complaining about was on display for they and children to be subjected to viewing and the frosty wrappered magazines became the practice.

William

 

Until December 2022, using a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10 in England. From January 2023, using an HP laptop running Windows 11 in England.

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