Transparency of a Path Contour With Arrowheads Behaves Unexpectedly

[Mr. Doodlezz]

Hey everyone,

is this behaviour correct? I noticed that it has always been this way in all versions, which I find a bit odd:

On a path with arrowheads, if you change the transparency, they are treated as a separate object and you can see the underlying path under the arrow.

I would have expected the path not to be seen under the arrowhead and the element to be treated as a whole. You can easily solve this problem by simply grouping the path first, but in my opinion this is an unnecessary step, since the arrowheads and their path are already considered »one element« in one way or another.

Thoughts? See my clip for a demo.

 

 

Greetings
Dennis

[v_kyr]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

On a path with arrowheads, if you change the transparency, they are treated as a separate object and you can see the underlying path under the arrow.

Expand the stroke (Layer-> Expand Stroke) on the selected curve layer and you will see more clearly that such a curve with an applied arrow head is basically constructed out of two objects (brush line + triangle shape curve)! - This way you can change the arrow head form appearance even afterwards as wanted due to the choosen stroke start/end settings.

[Mr. Doodlezz]

5 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Expand stroke on the curve and you will see more clearly that such a curve with an applied arrow head is basically constructed out of two objects! - This way you can change the arrow head form appearance as wanted due to the choosen stroke start/end settings.

Thanks, right, I know that. But I want the path with the arrow to retain its editability. So expanding the stroke is not the solution I'm looking for. 😕

And the fact that it is indeed somehow constructed should make it all the more likely to behave like any other constructed or grouped element, e.g. apply transparency as »one« element, not as two or three separate elements, don’t you think? 🤔

[v_kyr]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

Thanks, right, I know that. But I want the path with the arrow to retain its editability. So expanding the stroke is not the solution I'm looking for. 😕

Read what I wrote, I just said to show and make it more clear what you've already seen there, not that you have always to apply an expand stroke!

In order to get a whole real one part arrows curve object, you would probably have to use (construct) your own here. Like for example shown here ...

 

See for tryouts and comparison ...

• Some BW arrow assets

[Mr. Doodlezz]

57 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Read what I wrote, I just said to show and make it more clear what you've already seen there, not that you have always to apply an expand stroke!

In order to get a whole real one part arrows curve object, you would probably have to use (construct) your own here. Like for example shown here ...

 

See for tryouts and comparison ...

• Some BW arrow assets

Wait, wait, wait.

Although I appreciate your alternative suggestions, you are taking the discussion in a completely different direction from what I originally intended to discuss with this topic! 😅

To be clear, my feedback/suggestion/question exclusively concerns contours with arrowheads and how transparency works on them – I'm not asking for solutions that are or include expanded strokes, converted shapes, or third party arrow shapes. I’m talking about Vanilla Affinity transparency for contours with arrowheads. 😉

I don't want a one-piece arrow shape, converted, constructed or otherwise – that's not my point.

I want a functioning transparency for regular contours with arrowheads, as shown in my demo.

Aka the contour with arrowheads a) has to remain a contour with arrowheads and b) has to work properly (like any other constructed shape) with transparency.

With »Thoughts?« I was trying to get thoughts on how other members of the community thought this should work.

[NotMyFault]

It does not work in the way you want. 
 

You will spot more issues in the same area when

• using curves with overlap themself
• curves with semi-transparent colors

all behave in ways unwanted by many users.

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

To be clear, my feedback/suggestion/question exclusively concerns contours with arrowheads and how transparency works on them – I'm not asking for solutions that are or include expanded strokes, converted shapes, or third party arrow shapes. I’m talking about Vanilla Affinity transparency for contours with arrowheads. 😉

I don't want a one-piece arrow shape, converted, constructed or otherwise – that's not my point.

I want a functioning transparency for regular contours with arrowheads, as shown in my demo.
...

As it is actually as the default in Affinity (aka a line contour + an applied filled shape triangle as one curve) that doesn't work transparency wise as you've already seen. - Instead you would have to group two seperate objects (line + triangle shape) yourself here, to get the wanted transparency behavior you're after.

[Mr. Doodlezz]

12 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Instead you would have to group two seperate objects (line + triangle shape) yourself here, to get the wanted transparency behavior you're after.

15 hours ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

You can easily solve this problem by simply grouping the path first, but in my opinion this is an unnecessary step, since the arrowheads and their path are already considered »one element« in one way or another.

As I initially mentioned. 😉

[Mr. Doodlezz]

But what do you think would be the overall preferred behaviour in this case?

Should the arrowhead and contour be treated separately, as they are now, with overlapping shapes showing through, although the path is treated as »one shape« when edited? Or would you, like me, prefer the way it works when it is additionally grouped without being treated as separate shapes and not showing through?

For example, for Inkscape or Illustrator it works as you (or at least I) would expect: Without showing the stroke under the arrowhead and applying the transparency to the path as an object or group.

 

[Aammppaa]

I can't think of an occasion where I would want the current behaviour. I would always want the line + arrow to become translucent as a whole.

In the unusual case that I wanted the arrowhead and line to behave as separate objects, I would construct them that way manually.

So +1 for a change in the default behaviour.

[Mr. Doodlezz]

5 minutes ago, Aammppaa said:

I can't think of an occasion where I would want the current behaviour. I would always want the line + arrow to become translucent as a whole.

Thank you. Same for me – I don't see the reason (and logic, considering any other kind of »compound object«) behind its current behaviour. 🤷‍♂️

[thadeusz]

It's just another bug in Affinity, but here in forum for whatever reason it's always called a feature... I gave up on this. Thanks for pointing this out. Don't expect this to be changed by Serif, unfortunately.

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

But what do you think would be the overall preferred behaviour in this case?  ...

For example, for Inkscape or Illustrator it works as you (or at least I) would expect: Without showing the stroke under the arrowhead and applying the transparency to the path as an object or group.

No need to ask, the actual default ADe behavior (left image) here looks visually pretty odd and thus should handle it instead *ideally* in the same manner as the others (Inkscape + Illu both on the right) do here.

[v_kyr]

6 minutes ago, thadeusz said:

...but here in forum for whatever reason it's always called a feature...

LOL, well calling such bugs then a feature is more a lame excuse, that I cannot understand with the best will in the world, as a bug is a bug! - If something doesn't work & behave as it intentionally should it never ever can be a feature.

[bures]

Similar strange behaviour also occurs when the Expand stroke option is used on the arrow.

 

[Mr. Doodlezz]

17 minutes ago, bures said:

Similar strange behaviour also occurs when the Expand stroke option is used on the arrow.

 

Oh wow, I don't get that result when I expand the stroke! 😲