AI generative Fill in Affinity

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

The device itself offers to do that, it will scan your face to create a 3D digital avatar for video calls and the like.

How can a device that fits over just one part of your face scan enough of it to create the avatar? Besides, this is about more than just creating the avatar. The custom insert is an integral part of the design, ensuring not only that it offers a comfortable fit but also that the eye to screen distance is optimized (apparently important for accurate sensing of eye movement), & (apparently) that the downward facing 3D cameras that record finger gestures are spaced far enough from the face to have an optimal view of the fingers.

The technology involved to make the whole thing work properly is much more complicated that it might seem.

[v_kyr]

13 minutes ago, R C-R said:

How can a device that fits over just one part of your face scan enough of it ...

See the parts of the Keynote where they are talking about that ...

https://www.tiktok.com/@cnetdotcom/video/7241315349843529002

https://www.apple.com/apple-events/

 

[R C-R]

8 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

See the parts of the Keynote where they are talking about that ...

I can't get the Apple video to play & I won't give tictok my info so I can't view that either.

But it really doesn't matter because (again!) it is not just about creating the avatar, so how can a device that you do not yet actually have in your possession do a scan to get the measurements for the insert that goes between the face & the goggles? Are you going to buy the thing without the insert, use it to scan your face, send that info to Apple, & then have them send you the insert?

As for buying without first trying, consider how many people preorder new iPhones, Macs, or Watches the day they are announced, & the lines that appear at Apple stores when they become available.

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

I can't get the Apple video to play

Just click on the "Watch the keynote" link there in your webbrowser, as everyone else did and does in order to see the keynote. TikTok just view that video there no need to make a account or something like that (I just found it by searching and saw that it shows the face scanning part of the Vision Pro from the WWDC keynote), afterwards if you may panic due to cookies or the like, just empty all your webrowsers cookies + cache entirely via your webbrowsers menu option.

Further it doesn't make sense if you argue about such technical things, if you even didn't looked the keynote about it and how they implemented to use certain things, like the face scanning, there for that Vision Pro device at all. - Instead of speculating and debating here about if the device's has face scanning capability, look first after how it is intended to be used for that accordingly and what it should offer!

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

As for buying without first trying, consider how many people preorder new iPhones, Macs, or Watches the day they are announced, & the lines that appear at Apple stores when they become available.

If other people don't inform and don't tryout any devices they are going to buy for a bunch of money, then that's their problem not mine. - So I don't care much about what other people do or don't do, but instead I care about what I personally do!

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Just click on the "Watch the keynote" link there in your webbrowser...

I have no idea why but when I do that I get a dark rectangle overlay with a message saying The Video Could Not Be Played, like this:

3 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Further it doesn't make sense if you argue about such technical things, if you even didn't looked the keynote about it...

Long ago I quit watching these keynotes because they are in essence commercials hyping the upside of the products while downplaying the downsides (& not infrequently leaving out details like when some touted feature actually will be implemented). So instead, I follow what the press & various industry bigwigs have to say, taking it all with a very large grain of salt, particularly for products that have an indeterminate future launch date.

So far, I have read about 20 articles about it, some saying it is destined to be an overhyped flop, others that it will change the entire world of computing. Most have mentioned that the demos are very impressive but there has been more than a little concern about how representative they are of real world use outside the environment Apple controls, sort of like how certain well known flaws in certain Apple products only became evident once consumers started using them in everyday situations.

More than anything else, there is considerable concern that this type of device will never become very popular among consumers, in part because, as revolutionary as the interface is, it is still best suited for 'big screen' viewing by one person at a time, so for instance it isn't going to appeal to very many people who want to share photos, play games, or watch movies with others.

Of course, time will tell, so it is all speculation at this point. Things could look very different in a year or two, but for now there is no product we can check out to see if the hype is justified or not.

[firstdefence]

Video's play fine for me, in both Safari and Brave.

[v_kyr]

4 hours ago, firstdefence said:

Video's play fine for me, in both Safari and Brave.

Here too, even under an pretty old MacOS with outdated Safari, FF and Chrome webbrowsers!

[Old Bruce]

14 hours ago, R C-R said:

How can a device that fits over just one part of your face scan enough of it to create the avatar?

I assume there are cameras on the front the mask looking out. Perhaps you hold it at arm's length and take a selfie with those cameras.

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

I assume there are cameras on the front the mask looking out. Perhaps you hold it at arm's length and take a selfie with those cameras.

 

 

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

I assume there are cameras on the front the mask looking out. Perhaps you hold it at arm's length and take a selfie with those cameras.

Well, they talk about doing this after "a quick enrollment process" but from what I have read this enrollment process takes about 30 minutes & is (at least for now) not something a user can do by themselves. But that has nothing to do with what I have been talking about regarding the insert that goes between the googles where the computer, cameras, et al are housed & the face. (If you do not know what I mean, check out the picture in the  https://macdailynews.com/2023/06/09/david-pogue-apple-vision-pro-is-one-freaking-mind-blowing-piece-of-tech/ article.)

As I understand it, this rather large piece must be custom shaped to fit over the contours of an individual's upper face, to prevent light leaks that could interfere with eye tracking, place the screens at the optimal optical distance from the eyes to maximize the 3D depth effects, ensure that the downward facing cameras that read finger gestures are not too close to the cheeks, & of course help provide the most comfortable wearing experience possible.

Obviously I hope, even if users can do the required 3D face mapping to get the data for this with the builtin cameras, they still would have to wait for Apple to give them the proper insert before they can use the device. Apparently, the few members of the press who were able to try out the demo did have their faces scanned & were using inserts Apple provided, but it isn't clear when or how this was done, or if Apple had a pre-made set of inserts for them to use.

Anyway, the tl;dr version is this is not a 'one size fits all' device, nor is it intended to be. How Apple will handle in-store tryouts once the product actually becomes available is anybody's guess but I suspect it is going be significantly more complicated than it would be for demoing an iPhone or Mac.

[Old Bruce]

18 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Anyway, the tl;dr version is this is not a 'one size fits all' device, nor is it intended to be. How Apple will handle in-store tryouts once the product actually becomes available is anybody's guess but I suspect it is going be significantly more complicated than it would be for demoing an iPhone or Mac.

The difference is most likely going to be more like buying clothing, pret a porter versus tailor made.

I also wonder about people using this sort of technology, which messes with both what and how you see, for several hours then hopping in a car and driving in heavy traffic. I predict a lot of lawsuits.

[lepr]

45 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Well, they talk about doing this after "a quick enrollment process" but from what I have read this enrollment process takes about 30 minutes & is (at least for now) not something a user can do by themselves. But that has nothing to do with what I have been talking about regarding the insert that goes between the googles where the computer, cameras, et al are housed & the face. (If you do not know what I mean, check out the picture in the  https://macdailynews.com/2023/06/09/david-pogue-apple-vision-pro-is-one-freaking-mind-blowing-piece-of-tech/ article.)

As I understand it, this rather large piece must be custom shaped to fit over the contours of an individual's upper face, to prevent light leaks that could interfere with eye tracking, place the screens at the optimal optical distance from the eyes to maximize the 3D depth effects, ensure that the downward facing cameras that read finger gestures are not too close to the cheeks, & of course help provide the most comfortable wearing experience possible.

Obviously I hope, even if users can do the required 3D face mapping to get the data for this with the builtin cameras, they still would have to wait for Apple to give them the proper insert before they can use the device. Apparently, the few members of the press who were able to try out the demo did have their faces scanned & were using inserts Apple provided, but it isn't clear when or how this was done, or if Apple had a pre-made set of inserts for them to use.

Anyway, the tl;dr version is this is not a 'one size fits all' device, nor is it intended to be. How Apple will handle in-store tryouts once the product actually becomes available is anybody's guess but I suspect it is going be significantly more complicated than it would be for demoing an iPhone or Mac.

The device is not for you. It's for positive minded people who see opportunities, not pessimists who imagine only problems.

[R C-R]

Just now, Old Bruce said:

The difference is most likely going to be more like buying clothing, pret a porter versus tailor made.

Maybe, but as I understand it the insert must provide a proper fit or the device will not perform as it should. It isn't just a set of VR/AR goggles like previous products from other companies. It is a stand alone hardware platform that supports a unique spatially driven UI that involves tracking eye movements (to provide the equivalent of the mouse/pointer functions in conventional UI's) & finger gestures (to provide the equivalent of clicks/taps, swipes, etc.).

So in this regard, unlike for those other products 'tailor made' isn't so much an alternative to ready to wear as a necessity.

The long term effects of using the device on everyday 'un-augmented' perception is anybody's guess but I suspect what is likely to be more of a concern is what might happen while using the device, like if it glitches or something seems so real that the user panics. I can imagine lots of accidents causing damage to property or people from flailing arms & such, but I doubt anybody would be very successful in suing Apple over that. It could be dicier if someone had a heart attack but that is yet another thing that only time will tell us much about.

But now that I think a bit more about this, I wonder about what could happen if the device was hacked, giving hackers access to whatever the cameras show, & maybe creating disturbing experiences intended to cause panic or whatever. Kind of frightening!

[R C-R]

5 minutes ago, lepr said:

The device is not for you. It's for positive minded people who see opportunities, not pessimists who imagine only problems.

It isn't that I imagine only problems, just that I am not going to ignore the potential ones that a number of industry pundits, journalists, etc. have expressed concerns about.

It is a new kind of device, not just a better set of AR goggles like some seem to think. It seems naive to think that there will not be significant problems that will need to be worked out before it can begin to justify the hype. After all, Apple has not even said much about exactly when next year this first gen product will become available (apparently only in the US at that point, I suppose in part because text input is voice-driven & they are as yet not confident about how well it will work with other languages or dialects).

Simply put, there are a lot of different technologies that all must work together seamlessly for this product to deliver a positive user experience. I hope Apple can get it all sorted out well enough to do that but it is far from a sure thing.

[R C-R]

Regarding the Vision Pro, this 'hands on' article from CNN Business might be of interest to a few of you, both for the positives & negatives the reporter mentioned. The last sentence may be of particular interest ... or not. 😀

[albertkinng]

On 6/10/2023 at 1:01 PM, R C-R said:

you are saying it has all the hallmarks of an addiction?

As Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, etc... Yes. I urge you to try it out yourself and confirm whether my assumption was incorrect or not.

[albertkinng]

21 hours ago, R C-R said:

The last sentence may be of particular interest

It's best to approach this with some skepticism. Those of us who have tried using only the basic apps on Vision OS can confidently say it's true. However, once you start using your favorite apps and they run smoothly, you'll be less likely to switch back. Consider how long you'd continue using a Mac if you were limited to only Mail, Facetime, and iTunes.

[R C-R]

3 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

It's best to approach this with some skepticism.

Same for any prediction about how a device that is at least 6 months from its final version will perform out in the wild vs. in Apple's carefully controlled environment.

[v_kyr]

27 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Same for any prediction about how a device that is at least 6 months from its final version will perform out in the wild vs. in Apple's carefully controlled environment.

Apple is pretty good in this discipline, think of when the iPhone and Apple Watch etc. were first time presented to the world and which status they have nowadays with those devices! - Things evolve and that Vision Pro device will be for sure no exception here, especially as Tim Cook want's that device have pushed as his important baby, like Steve did before with other Apple products. - Do you really think that Apple is leaving something to chance here?  - Look back at how they tend to achieve their goals.

[R C-R]

8 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Apple is pretty good in this discipline, think of when the iPhone and Apple Watch etc. were first time presented to the world and which status they have nowadays with those devices!

Think of all the things that they have promised that did not quite quite live up to expectations, sometimes not even for years after the first versions hit the streets. Siri, even on the most advanced, most powerful of Apple's devices does not live up to all the hype about it being a 'personal assistant.' Voice dictation still is a long way from perfect, & that is one of the primary input methods for the Vision Pro. There is the 2nd gen Apple TV remote that everyone hated, which they finally replaced with sometime more suitable for real world use.

Then there are all the OS updates to correct numerous issues, which does not bode well for the first iterations of the new visionOS. Sure, it is based on the 3 existing Apple ones (iOS, macOS, & iPadOS), but there is a lot of brand new spacial stuff added to it that still needs to be tested out in the real world to see what issues users might encounter with it.

The tl;dr version is simply this: both the device & the OS it runs on are so new that we can only guess about how well it will work when users finally can get there hands on it & try it out in all the diverse ways they might want to use it.

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Think of all the things that they have promised that did not quite quite live up to expectations, sometimes not even for years after the first versions hit the streets. Siri, even on the most advanced, most powerful of Apple's devices does not live up to all the hype about it being a 'personal assistant.' Voice dictation still is a long way from perfect, & that is one of the primary input methods for the Vision Pro. ...

And, so what?  Have you've seen anything else in IT which holds to be absolute perfect, holds it's expectations and had never needed to been touched again after it's very first invocation, be it hardware and/or software?  I for my part haven't and that's also the reason why I already said, that things will do evolve over time here!

However, you do not need to buy such a device, no one is forcing you to do so. You don't even have to try it, if you think everything about it is so terribly immature and bad. - I just find it funny that you talk and say so much about it here, but then always add your rather more pessimistic mustard to everything then that affects this Vision Pro device even though it's not even on the market yet.

Let's wait until this device is on the market and then see how this device will be accepted by the general public and what end users will say about it. Whether the reaction is more optimistic or pessimistic!

[albertkinng]

2 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Look back at how they tend to achieve their goals.

Exactly!

[albertkinng]

1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Siri, even on the most advanced, most powerful of Apple's devices does not live up to all the hype about it being a 'personal assistant.' Voice dictation still is a long way from perfect

I am unable to disclose the exact reason why Siri stopped being useful, but those involved in its development are aware. However, I can direct your attention to a similar situation where Apple was partnered with Google for the search engine and GPS on the iPhone. When Google decided to compete, they took the search and GPS with them, leaving Apple in a difficult position. This forced Apple to purchase TomTom GPS and start from scratch. Sometimes history repeats itself, and that is all I can say.

[R C-R]

8 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

And, so what?  Have you've seen anything else in IT which holds to be absolute perfect, holds it's expectations and had never needed to been touched again after it's very first invocation, be it hardware and/or software? 

That is exactly what my point is. This isn't even as yet quite a gen 1 device, so doesn't it make sense to be at least a bit skeptical about all these ideas about how great it is going to work in real world applications once it finally is available?

Among other things, even if everything works perfectly are people really going to want to use it for as long as they might regularly use a desktop computer? It's not very well suited for sharing photos or movies with others, so it isn't likely to replace our phones & TVs for that. There is no haptic feedback so it is not going to able to duplicate the 'Ready Player One' kind of experience. It is relatively heavy for a head-mounted device which could cause problems for many if they try to use it for long.

Bottom line is we just don't know enough to predict how well the market will accept it as a mainstream device, or if it ever will.

[R C-R]

43 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

I am unable to disclose the exact reason why Siri stopped being useful, but those involved in its development are aware.

Whatever the reason, considering how important voice input is for the Vision Pro is, I hope they are still developing its capabilities & accuracy beyond its current limits.