Designer Pencil Tool improvements

[postmadesign]

I really like the freehand vector pencil tool in Designer, but there are some thing that are a bit annoying and could improved imo.

1. Auto close was added in 2.0, but I find that in most cases it is not very useful. I would rather have the ability to close a path when the starting and end point are at a specified distance from eachother, say 10 points. This would allow me to use sculpt mode AND create closed paths, which is not possible right now.

2. Set smoothing factor: I would like the ability to set the accuracy of the stroke I draw, from very raw input with a lot of accuracy to a more smoothed out line.

3. Related to the previous point is the problem I have with zooming and pencil accuracy. The more zoomed out you are, the less accurate/more smoothed out the path becomes. I wish for a general smoothness regardless of zoom level.

4. I would love the integration of a Path eraser, that would be able to cut lines up to an intersection. This is possible using the Shapebuilder tool right now, so the code is there, but having it integrated in the Pencil tool and available with a shortcut would make it much more intitive and fast. This would probably require an option to keep all drawn paths selected.

[JhonatanS]

I will attach a video recorded of me using the Pencil tool, I'm not seeing great performance in the vector drawings while using this tool.

And I agree that we could have a
1. A smoothing factor to have a better node generator.
2. Even with the Stabilizer it doesn't provide a good quality nodes.
3. Sculpt mode is not acting well.

video below.
 

 

[JhonatanS]

[JhonatanS]

 The nodes while using Pencil tool definitely needs an upgrade in the way that it performs

[Old Bruce]

I have found that using the Stabiliser helps a lot, it is on the Context toolbar for the Pencil tool. It does take a bit of practise. You are sort of pulling the pencil instead of pushing it.

[JhonatanS]

the nodes generate still are not good and haven't received updates to smooth in appropriate way, I understand that this is the only solution for now but as I show on video, sculpt fails a lot,

the idea of bringing this topic is to inform Serif to give attention to this matter

[TravisL]

I have yet to see the sculpt tool actually work, for me it consistently fails. Is there a hidden microscopic Sculpt distance? Alternatively, a way to set the radius and view the radius as a circle where the "join" will start.

[walt.farrell]

5 hours ago, TravisL said:

I have yet to see the sculpt tool actually work, for me it consistently fails. Is there a hidden microscopic Sculpt distance? Alternatively, a way to set the radius and view the radius as a circle where the "join" will start.

Just select the start or end node, then continue drawing.

[MEB]

5 hours ago, TravisL said:

I have yet to see the sculpt tool actually work, for me it consistently fails. Is there a hidden microscopic Sculpt distance? Alternatively, a way to set the radius and view the radius as a circle where the "join" will start.

Hi @TravisL,
Welcome to Affinity Forums
No currently there's no controls for tolerance/radius. I agree the sculpt feature is a bit finicky. I will pass your feedback to the dev team. Thanks.

[debraspicher]

I have noticed brushwork (raster) also is impacted by zoom as far as how smooth the line is drawn, particularly related to performance/jitteriness. It changes the line quality and characteristics considerably for different brushes which is quite odd. I have to intentionally work at different zoom levels to get consistent results. It is probably because it seems to effect pressure where quick(er) strokes are involved, probably related to the same issues with responsiveness. It adds to the feeling that it isn't as reliable of a tool as it should be. I can't think of any other program that I have used that has these inconsistencies. Clip Studio is what I transitioned my painterly side to post-Adobe and it is simply rock solid even compared to Adobe's PS.

[TravisL]

I want to add to the comments about the stabilisation/smooth creating variable results, including zoom. Sometimes I like to draw zoomed out (so I can inspect the whole shape) and this will invariably cause the line to lose some of the detail I initial drew. Sometimes this means I have to create multiple lines per stroke which I end up having to manually dragging with the node tool to "line up" better or intersect precisely with the outline view, otherwise the caps on the strokes will overlap in a way that looks really obvious.

I recently did a big project that involves illustrations and it was a lot quicker to draw in a raster program than use the vector pencil tool because the amount of cleanup required for the pencil tool (and the resulting vector lines) was too high. So I ended up only using vector tools for the drawings that benefited from it (like technical / precise shapes), while combining with the line art exported from Clip Studio Paint. Obviously this isn't ideal but improving the smoothing, having a vector eraser, and making it easier to join overlapping lines together would help a lot. A good example of this is the Clip Studio Paint vector tools which let you easily join overlapping lines or smooth lines that have already been drawn. CSP's stabilisation feature seems to work a lot better for ink-style lines than the the vector tools in Affinity Designer does.

[SrPx]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:32 AM, postmadesign said:

2. Set smoothing factor: I would like the ability to set the accuracy of the stroke I draw, from very raw input with a lot of accuracy to a more smoothed out line.

3. Related to the previous point is the problem I have with zooming and pencil accuracy. The more zoomed out you are, the less accurate/more smoothed out the path becomes. I wish for a general smoothness regardless of zoom level.

I really, very much agree with the need in Designer of being able to get a stroke, a line, in very raw input (~ish). Like we get in raster (Photo). Indeed, the strange thing is that while you are drawing the line, it stays accurate, the problem is when you lift the tip and it makes the huge "smoothing",  even with the stabilizer completely deactivated (it is a very old issue from the very early times of Designer, I remember reporting it with pics).  I would have assumed this is impossible in any vector software (unlike in raster graphics software) but I have experienced full accuracy in tools like Inkscape, Illustrator (since many years) and some other. The majority of apps have this kind of excessive "smoothing" (even the current Xara Designer Pro has about the worst of the entire market (quite worse than this), despite being so good for other things). 

I can draw lines without stabilizer in any software now (got me years to get an almost equal level to how I'd ink on paper...well, it's yet very different, but workable) provided I am using a Wacom device (some others have hardware line wobble). But I know it is very good to have the stabilizer feature for some situations in inking, it can speed (fast) work that is OK to ink with some of that help. The stabilizer feature works well, the problem is not in it, but in how the brush works even without it. With it on, it fixes the most extreme bad effects, but eliminates the possibility of truly good inking, and worse, it makes it almost impossible to draw small features with complex details (while seeing the full canvas, zoomed out). Plus, some sort of smoothing keeps happening, even in very high levels of stabilizer (in a full zoomed out composition, which is ideal in many moments of the process). Reason why I suspect that the problem is in the basic stuff underneath, not something the stabilizer can fully fix.  

But as an example of usability, in A. Photo I can totally ink accurately, now in 2.4.2. 

And I very well remember reporting the (considerable) staircase issue (now fixed) while inking zoomed out in Photo, the lag issues, and some jitter. And at least with certain configuration in preferences (this is important in any Affinity app), it seems all those got solved, reason why I am hopeful about getting a similar level of quality with freehand inking in Designer (and as an illustration tool, it should be a critical aspect...).

About inking very zoomed out in Designer, I agree, this used to be another issue (very similar to Photo's in that) ...Although! I am not noticing the zoomed out problem in Designer 2.4.2. Or maybe very slightly in some case (in the raw input of some diagonal line, very subtle).  I mean during the raw input! Not once lifted the tip as then  it does its problematic smoothing thing. The OP's 3rd point is true, indeed, as when the tip is lifted, the more zoomed out, the worst the smoothing effect is.

While in Photo it works well.  For me at least, the current Photo 2.4.2 (and many previous 2.x) has not this problem while working in a 6500x5600 px canvas (for example) even if very zoomed out. I wish we had this level of accuracy in Designer. I know, it's not raster, it can't ever be the same... But Inkscape and Illustrator got it, so, I hope it is somehow doable (and I know, code bases are very different, etc).

So, about point 3., to clarify, I'd say there are two different aspects. That once lifted the tip, it smooths the lines wildly (quite more than it already does in a zoomed-in situation) when the zoom-out is significant. The second aspect, that even in "raw input", it used to smooth and/or add staircase increasingly more, the more zoomed-out the canvas is, in this raw input as well. The second aspect, I am not seeing it as very noticeable (or at all) on the current Designer 2.4.2, but the excessive smoothing once the tip is lifted, definitely yes, and absolutely that the more zoomed out, the more it happens (to bad levels). But! if we can fully disable (not possible right now) the smoothing, then I guess it would not matter, as it would not be doing it at all, maybe only a small, very slight averaging (due to being vectors), trying to be 100% accurate to our raw input, or as much as possible. I suspect improvements in that matter would help as well the people using the stabilizer ( as this feature is not able to really counter it, it happens on top of that, it seems).

It would be just a fantastic improvement for anyone doing anything (beyond basic stuff) requiring freehand line work, in Affinity Designer (again, partly an illustration app). 

But IMO, it both (zoom out augmenting the problem, and the problem itself) are sort of solved with just fixing it by getting a stroke equal or as much as possible, to the raw input (before lifting the pen's tip), as I can notice that in the "raw stage", it is indeed accurate enough, now in 2.4.2, even zoomed out. Probably the reason why in Photo it is is now good.

Indeed, it is probably only one problem, that gets intensified when working zoomed out. The stabilizer on top of it can't really fix it.

This is one of the most important issues, I think (in Designer). But again, I am optimistic, judging the progress on Photo in relation to the brush engine.