Symbols on a circular text path don't align correctly

[Max Kaladin]

I'm trying to put stars around a circle.  Looking online, it appears the way I'm supposed to do this is to create a circle, turn it into a text path and then use the artistic text path tool to put text on it.  I create a star symbol using the star symbol tool and copy/paste it to the path and they go nowhere near the path I want.  I try this with actual text and it works fine.  If I try the symbols on a random wavy line I made and it works fine.  What am I doing wrong with the circle?  If it's inherent to the circle tool somehow, is there a way I can draw a circle or a half circle or something using other tools?  

Thank you!

[Alfred]

Welcome to the Serif Affinity Forums, Max.

Unless you really mean ‘Symbols’ (as distinct from simple shapes) in the Affinity sense, I’ve no idea what we’re doing differently!

[Max Kaladin]

I'm using the "Star Tool" on the left side of the screen to make a star and then I copy it and paste it into the text. I suppose that counts as a simple shape?

Basically I do this:

1. Use the star tool to make a star.
2. Use the circle tool to make a circle
3. Select the circle and use the "Layer" dropdown and select "Convert to text path"
4. Select the star and copy it
5. Select the "Artistic Text" tool on the left.
6. Hover the mouse over the circle until the cursor changes to indicate it's over the path and click.
7. Paste one or more of the copied stars.
8. Wacky placement ensues.

 

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, Max Kaladin said:

• Select the circle and use the "Layer" dropdown and select "Convert to text path"
• Select the star and copy it
• Select the "Artistic Text" tool on the left.

Simply clicking on the circle with the Artistic Text Tool will convert it to a text path, so you shouldn’t need an explicit step for ‘Convert to text path’ (but it should still work if you do it that way). If you really did click over the path, I can’t understand why there isn’t at least one star over the circle.

[firstdefence]

The problem with the stars inline with the text happens if you then try to scale the circle text path, the stars go all over the place and is likely a bug.

Before scaling

After scaling

Scaling with the text node bottom right below the bounding box node, scales without distortion.

 

[Max Kaladin]

Ok, so that's progress of a sort.  I created a new circle and didn't tweak the size in any way (I had previously adjusted the size of the circle by typing in position, height and width in the lower right corner before converting to a path).  I then selected the artistic text tool and hovered over the circle and clicked to convert to a path and started pasting stars.  Everything went the way I'd expect it to with the stars in the right spots.  When I then tried to change the size of the text path, I got the behavior I've been seeing.  So apparently the only way this is working is if I can somehow make the circle the exact size I want when creating it and don't adjust it in any way.  

[firstdefence]

 

[Max Kaladin]

Ok, I've tried that and it does seem to work fairly well.  Is there any way to do that with the Transform panel so I can just enter values since I know what I want? 

[R C-R]

27 minutes ago, Max Kaladin said:

Ok, I've tried that and it does seem to work fairly well.  Is there any way to do that with the Transform panel so I can just enter values since I know what I want? 

No, but it has been requested a number of times so amybe someday it will be added.

[lacerto]

The issues with sizing can be worked around by exporting a selection to PDF or e.g. a Designer document and then placing those in the document, in which case the whole object could be uniformly scaled using the Transform panel:

When creating this, I noticed multiple anomalities (bugs):

1. The new scaling override feature in context of Transform panel does not have the stroke width within the text frame related to text on path covered, so this setting needs to be applied separately. [EDIT: This includes also stroke widths applied to text on path, and stroke widths applied to shapes and symbols on path.]
2. Shapes on path do not honor baseline shift, which means that e.g. stroke width attribute related to a text on path object and its distance from the text cannot be properly adjusted. The path element should probably be created as a separate element anyway so that it can be adjusted independently (this way the shape could also be changed using Designer).
3. Note in the screenshot how the star shapes DO honor baseline shift when the "text on path" object has been removed from the path and "straightened". The object (now basically a "pure" artistic text objects) still has the text frame related stroke, but oddly shortened, and the attribute cannot be accessed because the text frame button is no longer shown in context of the object, unless the panel is first made visible by other means.

Because of these restrictions, it would be a good idea to use a font that has the required shapes in-built as glyphs.

[Max Kaladin]

I'll have to look into doing it in Photo or Designer then.  Thank you!

[lacerto]

5 hours ago, Max Kaladin said:

I'll have to look into doing it in Photo or Designer then.

I mentioned Designer much because of its capability to create a document with exact size of a design pasted from the Clipboard, but since you have both Publisher and Designer, you could save the text on path objects as a Publisher objects, instead, to have the attached curve object editable (you will lose editablity of the path control objects in Designer).

But because you have Designer, you. could create a star object as a symbol, and then place symbols on the path. This way you can later edit e.g. the fill and outline color, size, even the star shape and whatever you wish using just one symbol instance and having the changed attributes replicated on other instances.

I also realized afterwards that text on path has its own baseline shift, which affects shape objects (like stars) placed on a path, as well. So to vertically center the stars in relation to text, you could first apply negative baseline shift to the text (stars not effected but text is shifted down to have the star shapes centered), and then shift up the whole construction using the baseline control specific to text on path object.

After having created the kind of a text on path object you wish, you can copy it onto the Clipbpard, paste it into Designer to have document dimensions that match the bounding box of the text on the path object, then use File > Edit in Publisher and save the construction as a Publisher document, and then finally place this file in a Publisher document and use Transform panel to have exact size specified for the boundign box of the object.

 

It is certainly a bit convoluted way of scaling an object but by combining capabilities of multiple apps, you can get pretty powerful features. 

[Hilltop]

On 3/22/2023 at 5:12 PM, Max Kaladin said:

I create a star symbol using the star symbol tool and copy/paste it to the path and they go nowhere near the path I want.  I try this with actual text and it works fine.

You answered your own question: don't use shapes but text. If you have a PC and MS-Office installed, position the cursor at the point in your text where you wish the star symbol to be. Open the Glyph Browser (Window/Text/Glyph Browser) and select Segoe UI Symbol font. Type 'Star' in the search box and double-click the shape of your choice. If your on a Mac and/or don't have Office, perhaps someone else can point you to the correct font. 

 

[Alfred]

18 minutes ago, Hilltop said:

If you have a PC and MS-Office installed, … select Segoe UI Symbol font.

Segoe UI Symbol has been supplied as standard since Windows 7, so you don’t even need to have any MS Office products installed.

[Old Bruce]

Be aware that you will need to have that font with those symbols on all the computers which may open that file. @Alfred's suggestion of Segoe UI Symbol means I would not be able to work on the file as that font is not present on my Mac. 

[Max Kaladin]

I'm on a Mac and I ended up finding a star in wingdings using the font book and then copy/pasting that to make a text path with that character.  I wanted a circle of stars and I kind of had to play with the start and end points of the text to get an evenly distributed circle (using Justified All spacing) but it works and I got where I wanted.  If I ever want to use a symbol that isn't in a font, I'll have to try the photo/designer trick.  

 

Thank you all!