Columns — Feature to Span Columns

[captain_slocum]

38 minutes ago, Alfred said:

 

So why did you write

?

Are you suggesting that QXP users aren’t serious users?

I didn't write that Alfred, you did! 

I wrote - "True".  Meaning what you said was correct. Of course some people using Quark are serious users. Lets concentrate on getting AP the best it can be, not having pointless arguments.

[Alfred]

7 minutes ago, captain_slocum said:

I didn't write that Alfred, you did!

Huh?? 

10 minutes ago, captain_slocum said:

Lets concentrate on getting AP the best it can be, not having pointless arguments.

👍

By the way, AP is (as you can confirm by hovering your cursor over the underlined text in a desktop browser) the abbreviation for Affinity Photo; you can also use APh to avoid ambiguity. The abbreviation for Affinity Publisher is APu or APub.

[captain_slocum]

RERPEAT: "Lets concentrate on getting AP the best it can be, not having pointless arguments"!!! I'm leaving this thread now as it's been hijacked by pointless nit-picking.

[Juhani]

It’s always amusing to read how easily people designate different users into pros, serious users or what not, while having no actual insight about who those people are and how they are using different tools. How "serious" you are as a consumer at any point of time is totally and only up to you and should not concern strangers in a forum space, except if they happen to be your employers or clients perhaps.

What is important is that at the moment Affinity Publisher lacks certain critical features like the “column span”, which makes it much harder to use for certain layouts often featured in newspapers and magazines while being perfectly capable doing other simpler (but otherwise equally serious) layouts.

So indeed let’s focus on providing the best feedback and reasons to improve certain parts of the software for the Affinity team as best as we can.

[Eink]

I certainly hope I have not contributed to this mistaken conversation about serious versus non-serious designers because that's just not a useful conversation.  I agree with Juhani that focusing on improving the first real and practical alternative to InDesign is something all designers should be interested in.

For this shop, Affinity Publisher will be a game changer as soon as it's able to add span and split columns functionality needed for efficient layout of publications.  Until then, it's neat, but not worthwhile working with in a publishing environment.  Give us span/split, then sign us up for a long-term commitment.

We're serious about that.

[Ahura Mazda]

Has there been ANY reply from Affinity folks to this request? I really don't get how they can ignore this. Almost every professional publication that's not just a simple flyer (and even some of those) use column span. Even websites do and - as someone else already has pointed out - it has become a standard feature in CSS. I'm tied to APu by my organisation and it's a pain in the arm to layout our publications without column span. No professional who is creating layouts with columns wants to work with APu without this feature if they don't have to. Is this really such a huge and complicated issue? Man, you can't imagine how disappointed I was when v2 didn't have this feature. No update so far. It's sad.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Ahura Mazda said:

Has there been ANY reply from Affinity folks to this request?

Serif generally does not comment on requests in the Feedback forum. And generally they do not discuss future plans. (There are very rare exceptions; this is not one of them.)

If they intend to implement something we will know when it appears for testing in a Beta Test release.

[SarahMills]

I've been waiting for this feature since the Publisher beta. I would love to ditch Indesign, but I manage a huge amount of long, complex documents that are all using span columns and threaded text... it's a showstopper for me. That might sound a bit overly dramatic, but I'm amazed this still isn't possible.

So a +1 from me. Please !

[Juhani]

On 9/12/2024 at 11:56 AM, SarahMills said:

I've been waiting for this feature since the Publisher beta. I would love to ditch Indesign, but I manage a huge amount of long, complex documents that are all using span columns and threaded text... it's a showstopper for me. That might sound a bit overly dramatic, but I'm amazed this still isn't possible.

So a +1 from me. Please !

Yeah, me too. Every modern browser (including on mobile) can do this through CSS for almost 10 years by now, how come it's still not in Publisher?

[Juhani]

Is there any chance that "spanned colums" will be featured in the next Publisher update or at least coming within this year? I have nailed this down as a single feature (without any good workarounds) that I badly need for a magazine design job and which is why I'm still forced to keep using InDesign. Once this comes to Publisher I can finally stop my Adobe's all apps plan subscription.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Juhani said:

Is there any chance that "spanned colums" will be featured in the next Publisher update or at least coming within this year? I have nailed this down as a single feature (without any good workarounds) that I badly need for a magazine design job and which is why I'm still forced to keep using InDesign. Once this comes to Publisher I can finally stop my Adobe's all apps plan subscription.

There is always a chance it could come, but Serif generally won't comment on futures. All you can do is wait.

[Circulus]

Pinning with wrapping is a viable option.

[Juhani]

On 10/13/2024 at 7:33 PM, Return said:

Pinning with wrapping is a viable option.

How would that work exactly?

[MikeTO]

6 minutes ago, Juhani said:

How would that work exactly?

1. Create a frame for the text to span columns and type and format your headline in it
2. Set its text wrap to Jump
3. Pin it as Float to the start of the following paragraph

The big problem is that even if you select the keep within bounds options the spanned object could span out of the frame to the right when the pin is in the rightmost column.

I don't bother, it will never be perfect so I always have to check every spanned item manually so I might as well just position it manually and have full control.

[Eink]

Sure.  I could do something similar in Pagemaker and Quark Express too, but why bother when with one selection I can set columns under a spanned headline in a single text box and change the number of columns on the fly as needed in InDesign.  Lot's of promise with Publisher, just not ready for primetime.  Fingers remain crossed.

[fde101]

27 minutes ago, Eink said:

with one selection I can set columns under a spanned headline in a single text box and change the number of columns on the fly as needed in InDesign

That also works in QuarkXPress, at least in recent versions.

[Juhani]

20 hours ago, MikeTO said:

1. Create a frame for the text to span columns and type and format your headline in it
2. Set its text wrap to Jump
3. Pin it as Float to the start of the following paragraph

Thanks for this! I'll have to look more into this pinning to know for sure if this would work in my case or not, but it seems to be perhaps too complex and would still require completely redesigning the current layout logic, which has spanned subheadings for each block of news items, so they would need to reflow if any additons or changes are made to any other blocks that come before. InDesign's implementation is just so easy and intuitive.

[Juhani]

On 10/15/2024 at 8:01 PM, MikeTO said:

• Create a frame for the text to span columns and type and format your headline in it
• Set its text wrap to Jump
• Pin it as Float to the start of the following paragraph

Ok tried that and it does not work at all since the new pinned text frame, now spanning across the columns, does not force the text above to reflow according to the pinned frame and then continue flowing after it. Instead the text keeps flowing normally just as it were before, through the pinned frame as if it doesn't even exist there. Not sure if this description makes sense to anyone, but I messed around with it half an hour and could not get it to work whatever I tried. The only way is to break the text apart manually using frame breaks and draw out frames in between columns. Needless to say this would be extremely finicky and fragile – any changes above the spanned frame will 99% break everything after the changed text.

Multi page spreads are nice but ultimately niche additions to the Publisher. It also remains useless without the ability to import common magazine layouts into Publisher with spanned text frames.

[fde101]

11 minutes ago, Juhani said:

does not force the text above to reflow according to the pinned frame

It works fine for me.

Make sure you don't have "Ignores Text Wraps" set on the frame with the text that should wrap.

[Circulus]

Though working it may cause some issues when using on multicolumn flowing into multi column textframes.

 

 

[MikeTO]

Pinning a wrapped object to span columns is never going to work perfectly which is why everybody here keeps asking for span columns. You can do it but it may always require a manual review.

[Circulus]

Just tried to show that this approach can be done but not, like many other things, in a perfect way.
@Juhani may have missed a part hence my video.

[Eink]

I believe that was my original point. 
Why switch to a new tool when using it requires so many additional steps to perform such a simple, yet critical task like Span/Split Columns?

[Juhani]

7 hours ago, fde101 said:

It works fine for me.

Make sure you don't have "Ignores Text Wraps" set on the frame with the text that should wrap.

I didn't. It does not work like spanned columns at all. As @Return demoed in his/her video the text that comes after the pinned frame flows back up and right, i.e. above the pinned frame, which never happens with true spanned columns, which instead reflows the text above, and any text below stays below (at least to the extent the spanning takes place). I mean, why would you even use headings like this? The whole point of spanned colums is to put some text (headings) across multi column layout and in doing so stop and reflow the text that comes before it. In this way you can have almost like mini sections within your columed layout without actually having to draw any additinal frames for them and move them manually as things are changed above.

[Jochen Damm]

Dear Development Team,

We are writing to you today to strongly advocate for the implementation of a “column span” feature within your program. This functionality, commonly found in professional publishing software, offers significant advantages in terms of layout efficiency, design flexibility, and, crucially, accessibility. We believe its inclusion would greatly benefit users and enhance the overall quality of documents created with your software.

Currently, achieving layouts where elements span multiple columns often requires complex workarounds involving multiple text boxes, text wrapping, and manual adjustments. This approach is time-consuming, prone to errors, and can lead to inconsistencies in the final output. A dedicated column span feature would streamline this process, allowing users to easily define how text elements, such as headings, subheadings, and pull quotes, should span across columns within a multi-column text frame.

The benefits of implementing column span are numerous:

• The flexibility of Column Span extends beyond the basics:
  • "Span" Functionality: Allows text elements to stretch across multiple columns, such as a headline spanning three out of four columns in a multi-column layout.
  • "Split" Functionality: Enables dividing individual columns into sub-columns. This is especially useful for lists or tables, ensuring better alignment and readability without disrupting the overall design.
• Simplified Workflow and Increased Productivity: Instead of managing multiple text boxes and their interactions, users can control column spanning directly within the text frame. This significantly reduces the number of objects to manage and simplifies the layout process, leading to increased productivity and a more intuitive user experience.
• Improved Layout Quality and Professional Appearance: Column span ensures consistent spacing and alignment of elements spanning multiple columns, resulting in a cleaner, more professional, and visually appealing document. It allows for more sophisticated and flexible layout options, empowering users to create more engaging and effective publications.
• Enhanced Accessibility through Improved Text Flow: This is perhaps the most crucial benefit. By keeping the text within a single text frame and controlling the visual layout through column span, the logical reading order of the text is preserved. This is essential for users who rely on assistive technologies such as screen readers. When text is fragmented across multiple text boxes, screen readers may interpret the content in an incorrect or illogical order, making the document difficult or impossible to understand. Column span mitigates this issue by ensuring a linear and logical text flow.
• Better Accessibility through Semantic Formatting: Combining column span with proper use of paragraph styles (text styles) enables semantic markup of the text. This means that elements like headings, subheadings, and paragraphs are not only visually distinct but also carry semantic meaning that assistive technologies can interpret. This further enhances accessibility for users with disabilities. For example, a screen reader can announce a heading as a “Heading Level 1” or “Heading Level 2,” providing crucial context to the user.

In summary, implementing a column span feature is not merely a cosmetic improvement. It is a fundamental enhancement that promotes accessibility, simplifies workflows, and improves the overall quality of documents created with your software. By prioritizing accessibility and providing users with powerful layout tools, you will significantly enhance the user experience and make your program more inclusive and effective for a wider audience.

We urge you to consider this request and prioritize the implementation of column span in a future update. We are confident that this feature will be highly valued by your users. We urge you to recognize the transformative impact of the Column Span feature. By integrating it into your software, you empower users to:

• Design fluid layouts that are not only visually appealing but also structurally sound.
• Enhance productivity by reducing repetitive and time-consuming tasks.
• Promote accessibility and inclusivity for all users, ensuring compliance with modern standards.

The implementation of Column Span is a step toward creating a toolset that meets the demands of today’s content creators while championing accessibility and professionalism. Let’s work together to make this essential feature a reality.

I have been an author, photographer and media designer for more than 25 years. I have created advertising material for print, web and video. Since 2020, I have been deputy editor-in-chief and managing editor of a small newspaper. There I am responsible for data acceptance and preparation, typesetting and production. I'm not a professional, but an amateur who acquired my specialist knowledge through self-tuition. So I know very well that I still have a lot to learn. But I know what tools I and other people need for our work. I certainly need a screwdriver for screws and not a hammer. It also works somehow with a hammer, but not as well and it's awkward.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

Jochen Damm