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Text in upside-down speech bubbles?


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Hi,
When I make a speech bubble, it only lets me put the tail at the bottom. If I flip the speech bubble upside-down (so the tail is at the top) and then use the text tool to put text inside it, the text is also upside down.
Is there any way round this (ie, the bubble upside-down, the text right-way up) without having to use a separate bubble and text frame?

Cheers!

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6 minutes ago, Ratty said:

Is there any way round this (ie, the bubble upside-down, the text right-way up) without having to use a separate bubble and text frame?

Before adding the text, reset the rotation of the bubble by Adding it to itself, but make sure that you have it adjusted as you want it first as that will convert it from a Shape (with all the control nodes) into a normal Curve object.

Layer > Geometry > Add (Photo, Designer, Publisher), or in Designer you should have an Add operation on the Toolbar as one of the default icons, I think.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
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36 minutes ago, Ratty said:

without having to use a separate bubble and text frame?

Layer hierarchy matters.
If you simply clip the text with the bubble, both elements will remain independently editable while behaving as a single object. You can fine-tune the relationship with the Constraints panel.

ade_speech_bubble_with_text.png.5f848c58e7063123dc137de1c1282bcb.png

 

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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The speech bubble feature still lacks in some options, not only its aiming direction but also vertical text alignment can become hard to handle. Therefore it can be more useful not to use this shape object as text frame, too.

393045689_calloutellipseverticalalign.jpg.da6e4964dc74fd3513eaded650b07523.jpg

Maybe you want to nudge this thread by your hint or link?

 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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2 hours ago, thomaso said:

The speech bubble feature still lacks in some options ...

It isn't technically even really a speech bubble feature, just a pair of "callout" shape creation tools that like the other shape creation tools have no text properties or options of their own.

Consequently, I do not think there is any practical way to control the text properties separately from the shape other than with something like @loukash suggested.

IOW, I think it is the same as with any other shape -- none of them have any inherent text properties so the text frame & shape objects need to be considered as two different elements.

Does that make sense?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.5 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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2 minutes ago, R C-R said:

IOW, I think it is the same as with any other shape -- none of them have any inherent text properties so the text frame & shape objects need to be considered as two different elements.

Except, perhaps, in Publisher. There you can convert one of the shapes into a Text Frame and control the frame properties using the Text Frame panel.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1

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7 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Does that make sense?

Of cause it does. It's just that the combination of

+ this particular shape
+ its name "callout"
+ the ability to convert it into a text frame (and in a fortunately easy way by simply clicking with a text tool)

might let the user at least try it, then wondering, then asking.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

Except, perhaps, in Publisher. There you can convert one of the shapes into a Text Frame and control the frame properties using the Text Frame panel.

But it still ends up being two objects (one shape converted to a text frame & one not) so the Text Frame panel does not help with the rotation issue. It seems far simpler to do what @loukash suggested & just clip a regular text frame into the callout (or any other) shape.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.5 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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ll 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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1 hour ago, thomaso said:

It's just that the combination of

+ this particular shape
+ its name "callout"
+ the ability to convert it into a text frame (and in a fortunately easy way by simply clicking with a text tool)

might let the user at least try it, then wondering, then asking.

Any shape can be converted to a text frame so I think it is really just the combination of the name & shape that might cause confusion.

Still, I think the important thing to keep in mind is none of the shape tools have any text attributes of their own so you will always need separate text & shape objects.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.5 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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ll 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

But it still ends up being two objects (one shape converted to a text frame & one not) so the Text Frame panel does not help with the rotation issue.

It only needs one object. The shape, Added to itself to fix the rotation, then converted to a Text Frame.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1

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19 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

It only needs one object. The shape, Added to itself to fix the rotation, then converted to a Text Frame.

How does that fix rotation of the text?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.5 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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ll 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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1 minute ago, R C-R said:

How does that fix rotation of the text?

Boolean Add will convert the shape to curves and reset the bounding box.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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1 minute ago, R C-R said:

How does that fix rotation of the text?

You do the Add before putting in the text. Adding the shape to itself resets the rotation of the object, and the text then goes in with the proper rotation.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1

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Just now, walt.farrell said:

You do the Add before putting in the text. Adding the shape to itself resets the rotation of the object, and the text then goes in with the proper rotation.

What I mean is how can you set the rotation of the text independently of the rotation of (in this instance) the elliptical callout shape (and ideally also preserve the parametric adjustability of that shape).

IOW, how to keep everything non-destructive, as one might expect with a real full-featured speech bubble tool.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.5 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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ll 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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Do all the rotation before adding the text.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.6 
Affinity Designer 2.5.5 | Affinity Photo 2.5.5 | Affinity Publisher 2.5.5 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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3 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Do all the rotation before adding the text.

How is this different from what the OP wrote?

8 hours ago, Ratty said:

If I flip the speech bubble upside-down (so the tail is at the top) and then use the text tool to put text inside it, the text is also upside down.

Regardless, what I am asking is if there is any better way to rotate the text & shape independently & non-destructively (meaning not converting the shape to a curve or requiring any particular order of steps) than what @loukash suggested in the third post of this topic.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.5 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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ll 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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53 minutes ago, R C-R said:

what I am asking is if there is any better way to rotate the text & shape independently & non-destructively (meaning not converting the shape to a curve or requiring any particular order of steps) than what @loukash suggested in the third post of this topic.

I agree, @loukash 's method of 2 objects – the callout shape object + a nested/clipped text frame – is the most flexible, and the only/most non-destructive way, too, for speech bubbles.

But, just to complete it, this 2-object way also has limitations which do not occur with the converted callout 1-object:

It doesn't form (wrap) the text like a non-rectangular frame can do. This non-wrapping may prevent it from being used for rounded speech bubbles or longer texts – or it would require an additional wrap object.
It easily happens that you unintentionally convert the shape into a text frame: If you have the text tool active and hover in the layout over the text of a callout shape and click to edit the text, then not the nested text object gets activated but instead the bubble gets converted if you get not aware before of the pentagonal text cursor.
• If the shape isn't selected when you hover over the shape then the text tool cursor appears as normal text cursor and switches to the pentagon on click. So easily a double click converts an unselected shape unintentionally, e.g. during work on a series of such objects.

1077815150_calloutellipsespeechbubble.thumb.jpg.e6dee94a6b65e8a5e4504a31d8dc3c25.jpg

 

 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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8 hours ago, thomaso said:

this 2-object way also has limitations

If you try hard enough, you will always find a way to mess up your document. :P

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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3 hours ago, loukash said:

you will always find a way to mess up your document.

Note the OP's initial question:

22 hours ago, Ratty said:

Is there any way (…) bubble upside-down, the text right-way up) without having to use a separate bubble and text frame?

Honestly the answer is "No". The Callout shape object always is limited by 1 axis for its target tip, either vertically or horizontally. Also the workflow of Callout shape + nested text frame is affected and doesn't solve this problem, though it works efficiently for most situations.

For certain designs it seems useful to avoid the ready made Callout shape entirely. Here's some more of such mess … and possibilities, too:

1637654230_calloutellipsebubbletargettip.thumb.jpg.a041e76c021f28f1c8c4bac0fa213076.jpg

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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3 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Note the OP's initial question

3 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Honestly the answer is "No".

I was aware of it.

On the other hand, you may also want to note that I've been using Designer in this thread all the way through, and deliberately so. Because "by design", you have no Text Frame panel in Designer (unless you know the "secret MacOS-only handshake") to even format a callout-ellipse-turned-to-text-shape. @Ratty hasn't specified which app they are using, so my solutions have attempted to remain "app agnostic". :)

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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Usability would be somewhat better if the callout shapes permitted rotating their tail ends 360° around the shape instead of just laterally across the width of the shape. But with only APub currently *officially* supporting the Text Frame panel, users that do not have it are still going to have to use a separate text object for their callouts to have any text (like they would for placing text in rectangles, ellipses, or other shape objects).

And of course, no matter how it is done, it is still possible to add more text than will fit within the confines of the shape.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.5 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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ll 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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37 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Usability would be somewhat better if the callout shapes permitted rotating their tail ends 360° around the shape

It was this macOS Preview experience which made me initially assume a bug in Affinity. Not only the target tail can move around 360° but also text area & target size are calculated separately and therefore a vertically centered text stays centered in the bubble, regardless of the tail size.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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6 minutes ago, thomaso said:

It was this macOS Preview experience which made me initially assume a bug in Affinity. Not only the target tail can move around 360° but also text area & target size are calculated separately and therefore a vertically centered text stays centered in the bubble, regardless of the tail size.

In comparison, not being able to rotate the tail 360° in the Affinity tools seems like more of an oversight than anything else. A built-in area for text placement seems more like a feature that if it existed should be implemented for all the shape tools, not just the two callout ones.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.5 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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ll 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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6 minutes ago, R C-R said:

A built-in area for text placement seems more like a feature that if it existed should be implemented for all the shape tools, not just the two callout ones.

Perhaps, but it's much more likely that the callout shapes will have text in them than the other shapes, in my opinion.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1

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