Jump to content
You must now use your email address to sign in [click for more info] ×

Superscript and subscript not working properly


Recommended Posts

Hey everyone,

I think I found a bug with the sub- and superscript system. Within my textfield, superscript is only available for some of the characters. Subscript was not possible at all. Please check the attached video for more information.

Greetings

superscript_bug_gif.gif

Edited by Lord_SK
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Staff

Hi Lord_SK,
Welcome to Affinity Forums :)
The Superscript/Subscript buttons in the Typography section (in the Character panel) only work with fonts that provide support/glyphs for them. For fonts whithout such support, use the SuperscriptSubscript options from the S: dropdown control in the Positioning and Transform section right above in the Character Panel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to second this particular point. I've noticed this since v1.7 came out on the desktop AND on the iPad versions of Photo AND Designer.

I initially figured it must be as @MEB mentioned — dependent upon the font choice and their glyph support. But even with common fonts such as Arial and Times New Roman, the superscript function isn't working properly or at all since v1.7. Using the character positioning tools works, but it takes a lot longer to get there. The developers should address this basic function sooner than later.  :( 

I have attached an AFPHOTO file without any superscripts to use as a base for testing. But the problem exists in Photo AND in Designer.

Superscripts.afphoto

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

I initially figured it must be as @MEB mentioned — dependent upon the font choice and their glyph support. But even with common fonts such as Arial and Times New Roman, the superscript function isn't working properly or at all since v1.7. Using the character positioning tools works, but it takes a lot longer to get there. The developers should address this basic function sooner than later.  :( 

There is nothing for the developers to address. The current behaviour is by design.

 

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.3.1 (iPad 7th gen)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually read that one during my search, @Alfred. But this doesn't seem consistent with the behavior of v1.6. And it's not consistent with the behavior of the current iPad version, where the superscript and subscript function operate as expected. 

I'm talking about fonts that DO include the proper support for superscript and subscripts (such as Arial or Times New Roman). Please give it a try on the desktop and iPad, and let me know your thoughts.

EDITED: I noted a clearer explanation from one of the mods; however, this leads to other questions about how the iPad version implements superscript/subscript.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moreover, I do not understand why superscript is possible for the "2" but not for the "3" as seen in the video. Makes no sense to me. Furthermore, I used arial in this example which is one of the most common fonts...

 

EDIT: I just tried it out for a few different fonts like Arial, Times New Roman, Helvetica. Only about 1-5% of all characters show the ability for sub- or superscripting. Unfortunately it is not obvious in advance what happens if one presses the buttons. Therefore, I think both buttons are generally useless in my opinion.

Edited by Lord_SK
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

I'm talking about fonts that DO include the proper support for superscript and subscripts (such as Arial or Times New Roman).

What do you mean by “the proper support”? As Alex explained in the linked post, you’ll get superscripts and subscripts if (and only if) there are glyphs for them in your chosen font.

12 minutes ago, Lord_SK said:

Moreover, I do not understand why superscript is possible for the "2" but not for the "3" as seen in the video. Makes no sense to me. Furthermore, I used arial in this example which is one of the most common fonts...

What matters here is glyph coverage. It doesn’t matter how “common” the font is.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.3.1 (iPad 7th gen)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Alfred said:
8 minutes ago, Alfred said:

What do you mean by “the proper support”? As Alex explained in the linked post, you’ll get superscripts and subscripts if (and only if) there are glyphs for them in your chosen font.

Apologies if I'm not using the proper terminology. I was simply repeating a phrase used in other answers and thought it would be understood here. :) 

What I mean is that I'd expect fonts such as Arial or Times New Roman to have such glyph coverage, and therefore proper superscripts and subscripts rather than the "fake" computational support described by "Chris B" in my other thread on this issue. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

Apologies if I'm not using the proper terminology. I was simply repeating a phrase used in other answers and thought it would be understood here. :) 

What I mean is that I'd expect fonts such as Arial or Times New Roman to have such glyph coverage, and therefore proper superscripts and subscripts rather than the "fake" computational support described by "Chris B" in my other thread on this issue. 

But what is the point that superscript buttons are available if almost no character in the font supports them. Why is the computed superscript not the standard and the "natural" non existing one hidden somewhere?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

Apologies if I'm not using the proper terminology. I was simply repeating a phrase used in other answers and thought it would be understood here. :) 

I’m confused! You quoted my reply to @Lord_SK, not to you. :S

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.3.1 (iPad 7th gen)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Lord_SK said:

Why is the computed superscript not the standard and the "natural" non existing one hidden somewhere?

The computed version is a poor choice if the font designer has included separate glyphs for the characters in question. It’s a bit like slanting roman text when the font family includes an italic font.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.3.1 (iPad 7th gen)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Staff
7 minutes ago, Lord_SK said:

But what is the point that superscript buttons are available if almost no character in the font supports them. Why is the computed superscript not the standard and the "natural" non existing one hidden somewhere?

Because the Open Type implementation is the one typographically correct (accessible through the Typography section in the Character panel and Typography panel itself) if the designer has created the appropriate glyphs for the font to support it. The "computed" superscript/subscript is faked (scaled and offset) and may not suit the font attributes correctly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MEB said:

scalped and offset

Autocorrect strikes again! indian_brave.gif indian_chief.gif

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.3.1 (iPad 7th gen)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It makes perfect sense that the "computed" superscript/subscript is NOT the default. 

How would one quickly verify during the design process if a particular font includes superscript/subscript glyphs?? (Did I wrongly assume that Arial and Times New Roman included them?) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my Windows 10 system there is a complete set of superscript numerals in both Arial and Times New Roman, but very few alphabetic characters anywhere (i and n in TNR, but only n in Arial). I think you’ll be hard pressed to find superscript d, h, r, s and t (for 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th) in any mainstream font.

Type sup or sub in the search box in the Glyph Browser to find superscripts or subscripts in the selected font.

Alfred spacer.png
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for Windows • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 2 for iPad • iPadOS 17.3.1 (iPad 7th gen)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ulysses said:

But this doesn't seem consistent with the behavior of v1.6.

It is not consistent with 1.6. It is an intentional change, after the Developers gained more experience during the development of Publisher for 1.7. Publisher acted differently than the 1.6 Affinity applications, and Designer and Photo were changed to be consistent with the better implementation in Publisher.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.3.1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, walt.farrell said:

It is not consistent with 1.6. It is an intentional change, after the Developers gained more experience during the development of Publisher for 1.7. Publisher acted differently than the 1.6 Affinity applications, and Designer and Photo were changed to be consistent with the better implementation in Publisher.

Precisely. I received a great explanation by one of the other mods in another thread. Makes sense now that I better understand the implementation. The education about this from several other consistent users has also been helpful. :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

I have to rise this question again. I am using Publisher on Intel Mac (Monterey). If I use Helvetica or Arial, superscript does not work. I have not tried other fonts. However, the same fonts can be put in superscript in Word with ease. Does anybody have an idea what the source of the problem is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, adissu said:

I have to rise this question again. I am using Publisher on Intel Mac (Monterey). If I use Helvetica or Arial, superscript does not work. I have not tried other fonts. However, the same fonts can be put in superscript in Word with ease. Does anybody have an idea what the source of the problem is.

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums.

There are two ways of getting Superscripts or Subscripts in the Affinity applications:

  1. Via the Positioning and Transform section of the Character panel, where the last item (S) allow you to choose Superscript or Subscript.
    image.png
  2. Via the Typography section of the Character panel, which has separate options for Superscript and Subscript:
    image.png

Approach 1 works for any characters in any font (as far as I know), and provides "faux" (pseudo, fake) superscripts and subscripts.

Approach 2 works only for characters where the font provides those characters in superscript or subscript form. If a character is not provided in the font, the option does not apply to that character.

Most fonts provide very few characters in true superscript or subscript form.

Word is probably providing fake superscripts and subscripts. What characters are you trying to use?

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.3.1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, adissu said:

However, the same fonts can be put in superscript in Word with ease.

Note that Word always fakes the superscript, and subscript, even if the font includes them.
While this makes it so "it just works" always, for all characters ... it also gives users no way of using the higher quality, optically corrected, properly spaced, properly kerned versions the font designer created.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, LibreTraining said:

Note that Word always fakes the superscript, and subscript, even if the font includes them.
While this makes it so "it just works" always, for all characters ... it also gives users no way of using the higher quality, optically corrected, properly spaced, properly kerned versions the font designer created.

I was wondering about that exact thing. Fascinating! There is really NO WAY to force Word to use the font’s built-in superscripts? 

I’m also guessing Libre Office works differently/better in this regard?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

There is really NO WAY to force Word to use the font’s built-in superscripts? 

You could probably use Windows Character Map to select and copy the Glyphs, and paste them into the Word document.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.3.1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.