Flush Space

[James Rodriguez]

I'd like to request a 'Flush Space' be added to Publisher's Insert menu, please. In InDesign, this invisible white space ensures proper spacing of groups of text when using Justified All Lines. Kinda hard to describe so let David Blatner explain here.

[James Rodriguez]

BTW, this was an InDesign feature at least as early as CS2.

[Seneca]

20 hours ago, James Rodriguez said:

Kinda hard to describe

I know exactly what you are talking about. I use it to centre a diamond dingbat that is in between the Issue Number and a Date in our leaflets.
Very handy indeed.

[Celia at Grafted Works]

+1

Was looking for flush space today!

[GarryP]

I’m probably missing something here but what’s the difference to what you get by using Justify All, see attached video?

[garrettm30]

@GarryP There is a linked article in the original post that explains what flush spaces can be used for (and it is new to me, so thanks @James Rodriguez)

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

I’m probably missing something here but what’s the difference to what you get by using Justify All

This image (which I got from said linked article) demonstrates the difference very clearly:

In the first example, every space is given equal value. In the second, the regular spaces have normal width, while the flush spaces are uniformly expanded until the line is filled.

[Alfred]

2 minutes ago, garrettm30 said:

In the second, the regular spaces have normal width, while the flush spaces are uniformly expanded until the line is filled.

What’s the difference, if any, between that and using fixed width (e.g. non-breaking) spaces instead of regular spaces and regular spaces instead of flush spaces?

[garrettm30]

13 minutes ago, Alfred said:

What’s the difference, if any, between that and using fixed width (e.g. non-breaking) spaces instead of regular spaces and regular spaces instead of flush spaces?

Interesting idea. It would seem that the results are the same, at least in this sample scenario:

I think in that case, it is just a convenience of entering one special space versus seven special spaces and one normal one.

As I indicated, this is all new to me, so I really have no experience with it. I was only answering GarryP about the difference in what he demonstrated versus what the original poster is looking for.

One thing I didn't realize is that flush space does not appear to be a standard unicode character, and so cross-app compatibility could be a problem. But then, I can't find the non-breaking fixed-width space in unicode either. When I copy the above text into Publisher, neither the flush text nor the fixed-width space behave as expected. The flush space is pasted as an em quad, and the fixed-width is pasted as a narrow non-breaking space.

So the question is how one can achieve this in Publisher? (Maybe a third space or a quarter space instead of a fixed-width non-breaking space is close enough?) On the other hand, if InDesign is repurposing characters to be used in a different way than intended, I do not think that is a good idea.

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, garrettm30 said:

But then, I can't find the non-breaking fixed-width space in unicode either.

It’s at U+00A0, and it’s often (usually?) called a ‘no-break’ space rather than a ‘non-breaking’ one.

 

[garrettm30]

13 minutes ago, Alfred said:

It’s at U+00A0, and it’s often (usually?) called a ‘no-break’ space rather than a ‘non-breaking’ one.

That's just the regular nbsp, not a fixed-width, and it has the same justification stretching as a regular space.

I cannot find a unicode character that mimics InDesign's "Nonbreaking Space (Fixed Width)" character. When I copy that character from InDesign and paste it into a unicode identifier, it identifies it as "U+202F : NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE [NNBSP]". Publisher renders it narrow, as I think was the intention.

[Alfred]

10 minutes ago, garrettm30 said:

That's just the regular nbsp, not a fixed-width, and it has the same justification stretching as a regular space.

Ah, my mistake! You’re quite right, as usual. Perhaps one could use U+2005 (FOUR-PER-EM SPACE) instead.

 

[Wosven]

5 hours ago, garrettm30 said:

I cannot find a unicode character that mimics InDesign's "Nonbreaking Space (Fixed Width)" character. When I copy that character from InDesign and paste it into a unicode identifier, it identifies it as "U+202F : NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE [NNBSP]". Publisher renders it narrow, as I think was the intention.

I read somewhere (can't remember where, uit's long ago), that QXD and inDesign needed to use existing charachers and add them different attributes or uses, depending of the need and the fact that they exist only in advanced typography, not common usage, and sometimes don't even exist in the fonts.

The article compared the two different approaches and implementations for those specials characters,.