Ellette Posted January 23 Posted January 23 Ive tried updating for weeks now and when i finally did, it did a fresh install instead. Im not the only one having this issue. I've lost all my assets, pallets and the start templates all reverted. Quote
Pšenda Posted January 23 Posted January 23 Did you perform a different type of installation than the previous one? For example, MSIX vs MSI/EXE? Quote Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.5.7.2948 (Retail) Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100.2605. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100.2605. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.
walt.farrell Posted January 24 Posted January 24 That does sound like you had previously installed using the MSI/EXE installer, and this time when prompted to Download the update you chose the wrong version of the installer and got the MSIX instead. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1
JonnyOneNote Posted January 24 Posted January 24 There's definitely an issue with the updater. I keep getting offered the exact same version of Photo 2 on every launch, despite it being already installed. I decided to let it update again, in case there was an issue, and it just asked if I wanted to re-install. I said yes, and it did nothing. As for the comment about the update wiping all settings, all updates should be simple patches, and be smart enough to see something that is already installed and not just do a new install. I just had a look at the download page, and it clearly says to use the MSIX file. If that is wiping settings, then it needs addressing, as people will do what Affinity tells them to do. Quote
R C-R Posted January 24 Posted January 24 20 minutes ago, JonnyOneNote said: I just had a look at the download page, and it clearly says to use the MSIX file. Please post a screenshot showing this. I am a Mac but from what other Windows users have posted the download page shows both versions, with the EXE version download shown if you scroll down. As I understand it, Microsoft (not Affinity) is promoting the use of the sandboxed MSIX version because it is supposed to be more secure but since many Windows apps do not (yet) support connecting to its executable Serif makes both versions available. emmrecs01 1 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
JonnyOneNote Posted January 25 Posted January 25 You can see it for yourself at the Windows version download page. Check the first FAQ item, in particular. This is the page resulting from the link to the update download that appears in the app on launch https://store.serif.com/en-gb/update/windows/photo/2/ Quote
walt.farrell Posted January 25 Posted January 25 18 hours ago, JonnyOneNote said: There's definitely an issue with the updater. I keep getting offered the exact same version of Photo 2 on every launch, despite it being already installed. I decided to let it update again, in case there was an issue, and it just asked if I wanted to re-install. I said yes, and it did nothing. As for the comment about the update wiping all settings, all updates should be simple patches, and be smart enough to see something that is already installed and not just do a new install. I just had a look at the download page, and it clearly says to use the MSIX file. If that is wiping settings, then it needs addressing, as people will do what Affinity tells them to do. If you have the MSI/EXE version installed, you get the option to Download your update, which is a manual operation. If you have the MSIX installed, you get the option to Install the update, which is fully automatic. If you get the Download option, you must choose the proper version, which will be the MSI/EXE as that's what you're running. 1 hour ago, JonnyOneNote said: Check the first FAQ item, in particular. Yes, they recommend using the MSIX. You apparently, for some reason, chose previously to use the MSI/EXE version and having made that choice you need to continue choosing that version. 18 hours ago, JonnyOneNote said: I decided to let it update again, in case there was an issue, and it just asked if I wanted to re-install. I said yes, and it did nothing. Did it ask you to Install the update, or to Download the update? If it asked to Install, then you were running the MSIX version, and it should have updated properly. At that point, it would have restarted automatically after it downloaded the proper installer. But if you have both versions installed, then what you get when you start the application will depend on which of the two entries in the Windows Start menu you used to start the application, or which shortcut icon you clicked on. The application is programmed to understand that users may start with the MSIX and decide to switch to the MSI/EXE, as V2 initially offered only the MSIX form. When you are running the MSIX, and first install the MSI/EXE version, the settings and content will migrate from the MSIX to the MSI/EXE file locations. That is not done if you are running the MSI/EXE version, and switch to the MSIX, though, which is why I think that's what you've done. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1
JonnyOneNote Posted January 25 Posted January 25 You're misunderstanding. I haven't had a problem. What I'm saying is that the download page explicitly tells people to download the MSIX version, with no explanation of how/why that may not be the best solution. That's why people are having problems, and that's why Affinity need to fix the downloads page copy. My issue is that the app tells me there's an update on every single launch, when there isn't. It's just sending me to the exact same version I already have. I suppose it might kick itself back into line the next time there is an actual update. Quote
PaulEC Posted January 25 Posted January 25 If you don't know which version to install, read "Which Windows installer should I use?" Quote Acer XC-895 : Core i5-10400 Hexa-core 2.90 GHz : 32GB RAM : Intel UHD Graphics 630 : Windows 11 Home Affinity Publisher 2 : Affinity Photo 2 : Affinity Designer 2 : (latest release versions) on desktop and iPad "Beware of false knowledge, it is more dangerous than ignorance." (GBS)
Circulus Posted January 25 Posted January 25 All updates should simply point to the correct version already installed and not a generic download page. The beta versions downloads are slightly better as these are 4 buttons but the label for the buttons should contain the actual version. Besides the FAQ that @JonnyOneNote is referring to is only an explanation but should contain links to the correct version within. Quote I think Serif wants us to be only creative in finding workarounds to use their tools. I have an affinity with Jumping through Hoops and over Humps. Dealing with Speedbumps and finding Work-A-Roundabouts. I'm getting dizzy from all that spinning and jumping.
Meliora spero Posted January 25 Posted January 25 The loyalists in here would not only defend but also proudly wear massively undersized underwear if Serif made them with an Affinity label. It is arrogant, lazy, and unnecessary to redirect all customers to a general page when the program showing the notification clearly knows which version it is and could instead direct the customer to a correct, foolproof download link. That would also spare the customer from an experience like this in a "support" forum, which doesn't exactly leave an impression of professionalism as for responses from several non-employees. Part of the satisfaction of paying for products is good support and user-friendliness. But maybe that's why Serif is cheap. Now imagine the confusion in the less tech-savvy households, who are unlikely to frequent something as old-fashioned as a forum, which clearly attracts tech-types that in no way represent Affinity’s, after all, many customers. Quote Serif, did you foolishly fill the usability specialist role you advertised internally? If so, be transparent with your customers. Continuing without proper UX expertise insults your entire user base.
JonnyOneNote Posted January 25 Posted January 25 I gave up on this topic, actually, for all the reasons you mention. People choosing to defend what is, to anybody looking at it logically and reasonably, a very poor effort by Serif, are doing it to promote their own self-importance as "experts". It should not require even the smallest amount of technical knowledge to patch an installed app on any platform, beyond clicking a button. 7 hours ago, Meliora spero said: The loyalists in here would not only defend but also proudly wear massively undersized underwear if Serif made them with an Affinity label. It is arrogant, lazy, and unnecessary to redirect all customers to a general page when the program showing the notification clearly knows which version it is and could instead direct the customer to a correct, foolproof download link. That would also spare the customer from an experience like this in a "support" forum, which doesn't exactly leave an impression of professionalism as for responses from several non-employees. Part of the satisfaction of paying for products is good support and user-friendliness. But maybe that's why Serif is cheap. Now imagine the confusion in the less tech-savvy households, who are unlikely to frequent something as old-fashioned as a forum, which clearly attracts tech-types that in no way represent Affinity’s, after all, many customers. Quote
R C-R Posted January 25 Posted January 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, JonnyOneNote said: It should not require even the smallest amount of technical knowledge to patch an installed app on any platform, beyond clicking a button. As I understand it, that (one-click) is the way the MSIX version works (& is among the reasons both Serif & Microsoft recommend using it), which does not patch the installed version; instead replacing it with the new version. However, the EXE version does not do this, apparently for security reasons, but that is just a guess based on some of the stuff I have seen online about patching them being hacks that should done only by users who understand the possible compromises that could enable. As far as the 'any platform' comment there certainly are more than a few Mac apps that do not offer patches, only full replacements. Edited January 25 by R C-R Made some changes to (hopefully) clarify what I meant Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
Meliora spero Posted January 26 Posted January 26 3 hours ago, JonnyOneNote said: I gave up on this topic, actually, for all the reasons you mention. People choosing to defend what is, to anybody looking at it logically and reasonably, a very poor effort by Serif, are doing it to promote their own self-importance as "experts". It should not require even the smallest amount of technical knowledge to patch an installed app on any platform, beyond clicking a button. The truly unreasonable part is that with every update, the problem reappears for the customer. And Affinity update notifications seem to be extremely persistent on Windows. Detached from reality, Serif thought MSIX was the solution, but anyone who has ever dealt with Microsoft's ecosystem knows that everything is connected to everything else, and at any crossroads, you can choose a path that ends in yet another crossroads. I don’t use Windows, but I can’t understand why so many products are still being made for this most widespread OS that are so tech-nerdy and lack an understanding of how many people fundamentally don’t know what decisions they’re supposed to make. Once they finally get Affinity installed (and have probably written down reminders on a 3M note for next time), they run into graphics card driver issues. R C-R 1 Quote Serif, did you foolishly fill the usability specialist role you advertised internally? If so, be transparent with your customers. Continuing without proper UX expertise insults your entire user base.
R C-R Posted January 26 Posted January 26 6 minutes ago, Meliora spero said: The truly unreasonable part is that with every update, the problem reappears for the customer. From what I have read in the forum, this problem only occurs for Windows customers who mix EXE & MSIX installers ... & there seem to be relatively few who do considering there must be at least a million V2 users & a lot of them are running Windows. PaulEC 1 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
walt.farrell Posted January 26 Posted January 26 22 hours ago, Circulus said: All updates should simply point to the correct version already installed and not a generic download page. Yes, and some of us have been suggesting that to Serif since they first made the MSI/EXE version of the installer available in V2. The situation has only gotten worse since they added the ARM-based installers for Windows users. Circulus 1 Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1
JonnyOneNote Posted January 26 Posted January 26 16 hours ago, R C-R said: From what I have read in the forum, this problem only occurs for Windows customers who mix EXE & MSIX installers ... & there seem to be relatively few who do considering there must be at least a million V2 users & a lot of them are running Windows. Must users probably don't do things that revert with an update, so they probably just have no idea what's actually happening but, again, that isn't the point. ANY update should be a patch, not a reinstall. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise Quote
R C-R Posted January 26 Posted January 26 11 minutes ago, JonnyOneNote said: ANY update should be a patch, not a reinstall. It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise It is neither ludicrous nor unreasonable that new app versions are quite often supplied as full installers rather than just patches to the currently installed one. The reason for this is quite simple & well known: the some parts of the currently installed version might have become corrupted or damaged in any of several different ways, so a patch that does not completely replace them may cause the app to stop working completely or worse, to cause it to damage any projects that have been edited using any of the damaged code. Of course, it is possible for a patch updater to include tests for damage or corruption in the installed version but unless they are exhaustive & check every component of the app & the support files that were installed along with it, it may fail to detect a problem that causes the app to quit working or damage project files. Even if it is completely exhaustive then if it does detect a problem all it can do is inform the user that the patch update failed & advise them to download & run the full installer. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
R C-R Posted January 26 Posted January 26 6 hours ago, walt.farrell said: Yes, and some of us have been suggesting that to Serif since they first made the MSI/EXE version of the installer available in V2. The situation has only gotten worse since they added the ARM-based installers for Windows users. There is something I do not understand about this: I can download any of the Windows installers on my Mac or (if I had one) on any Windows computer I might own, or even on a friend's computer if for some reason it was inconvenient to use one of mine, say because of a temporary lack of internet access at my home or to avoid usage surcharges or maybe just because my internet connection is much slower than my friend's. The installer(s) could then be copied to a USB stick or portable SSD or whatever so that I could use it with my universal license to install the app on any Windows computer that per the license I might 'own or control' either now or in the near future. While YMMV I don't think this is just a contrived scenario; I suspect that quite a few users for one reason or another want to download one or more of the installers on a computer that is not necessarily the one & only one it will be used on. So my question is how would the source for the installer (which is neither an updater nor just a simple patch) know which is the "correct" version that is wanted? Old Bruce 1 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
JonnyOneNote Posted January 26 Posted January 26 2 hours ago, R C-R said: It is neither ludicrous nor unreasonable that new app versions are quite often supplied as full installers rather than just patches to the currently installed one. The reason for this is quite simple & well known: the some parts of the currently installed version might have become corrupted or damaged in any of several different ways, so a patch that does not completely replace them may cause the app to stop working completely or worse, to cause it to damage any projects that have been edited using any of the damaged code. Of course, it is possible for a patch updater to include tests for damage or corruption in the installed version but unless they are exhaustive & check every component of the app & the support files that were installed along with it, it may fail to detect a problem that causes the app to quit working or damage project files. Even if it is completely exhaustive then if it does detect a problem all it can do is inform the user that the patch update failed & advise them to download & run the full installer. Regardless of the semantics of the process, apps do not routinely wipe all previous settings with updates. I update apps all the time and never have to start recreating settings. That Serif can't apply the same parameters to update files is quite ridiculous. Even Adobe manage to get that right R C-R 1 Quote
R C-R Posted January 26 Posted January 26 31 minutes ago, JonnyOneNote said: Regardless of the semantics of the process, apps do not routinely wipe all previous settings with updates. I do not understand what are you talking about nor is it just a matter of semantics. None of the Affinity installers wipe or otherwise touch any of the user level settings/preferences. That's why they provide the Control-start feature to permit per user resets for any/all of them (and why just reinstalling the app won't fix any of them that are corrupted or otherwise damaged). Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
Pšenda Posted January 26 Posted January 26 1 hour ago, JonnyOneNote said: I update apps all the time and never have to start recreating settings. This is exactly how Serif app updates work, but if you use the "same" installation type, i.e. MSI/EXE updated with a new version of MSI/EXE, or MSIX updated with a new version of MSIX. However, if you mix installation types, for example MSI/EXE updated with a new version of MSIX, it is not an update, but a new installation. 2 hours ago, JonnyOneNote said: That Serif can't apply the same parameters to update files is quite ridiculous. This is the point of a "sandboxed" MSIX installation, that access to its data space and vice versa is restricted, so you can't easily use settings from one type of installation in another type. 2 hours ago, JonnyOneNote said: Even Adobe manage to get that right Does Adobe have both types of installations, MSIX and MSI/EXE? If not, then you are comparing incomparable, or updating MSI/EXE with MSI/EXE, which also works flawlessly with Serif (I have been constantly updating all Affinity applications for several/about 10 years). PaulEC and R C-R 1 1 Quote Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.5.7.2948 (Retail) Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100.2605. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100.2605. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.
JonnyOneNote Posted January 27 Posted January 27 I'm going to say one final thing here because, frankly, it would be easier to teach a monkey to play the mandolin, than to try and convince some people that the update process is fundamentally flawed. With the Windows app installed, when an update dialogue appears at launch, the "Download" button takes you to the main download page. On which, and it's there for you all to see, Serif insist everyone should use the MSIX version of the available downloads. They make no distinction between clean installs or anything else. Anybody following their instructions will find all their custom settings have been put back to the defaults on the next app launch, with no explanation. Users who neither know nor care about how an EXE differs from an MSIX download, which I am sure accounts for nearly 100% of users, shouldn't have to go Googling the difference in order to retain their custom settings. I really don't know why that is so difficult for you all to understand. And, for that reason, I'm now out of this thread. Circulus 1 Quote
carl123 Posted January 27 Posted January 27 1 hour ago, JonnyOneNote said: I'm now out of this thread We will miss you. Feedback is important. It allows users and Serif to work together to present better solutions going forward Quote To save time I am currently using an automated AI to reply to some posts on this forum. If any of "my" posts are wrong or appear to be total b*ll*cks they are the ones generated by the AI. If correct they were probably mine. I apologise for any mistakes made by my AI - I'm sure it will improve with time.
R C-R Posted January 27 Posted January 27 6 hours ago, JonnyOneNote said: Anybody following their instructions will find all their custom settings have been put back to the defaults on the next app launch, with no explanation. There are many, many users reporting that no such thing happens, that all their user settings are preserved. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
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