Not working? AP 2.4.0 — Ask for name when creating Layer and Groups

[Gatada]

Oddly, I have enable the option to "Ask for name when creating Layer and Groups", yet I am never asked to name the layer when I press the "Add Pixel Layer" button in Layers tab, nor when I hit Shift+CMD+N.

I enabled the option in Settings and restarted AP 2.4.0, verified that the option is enabled. Still, never asked.

Bug or am I missing something?

[MEB]

Hi @Gatada,
It's working for both Layers (not pixel layer) and Groups in Designer/Publisher. I believe it's not supposed to work with pixel layers, only container´s type layers.

[Return]

It works as intended for Layers with capital L on windows.
 

[Gatada]

2 minutes ago, MEB said:

Hi @Gatada,
It's working for both Layers (not pixel layer) and Groups in Designer/Publisher.

Well, hence the AP designation

[Alfred]

My guess is that it’s treating ‘Layer’ and ‘Group’ as special cases, because they’re containers, but I’d like to see the ‘Rename’ option offered automatically for all new objects. Accepting the default name would only require one click or keypress, but the way it works at the moment means that you have to invoke renaming as a separate operation (which makes it less likely that users will do it).

[Gatada]

1 minute ago, Return said:

It works as intended for Layers with capital L. 
 

Hm?

[Return]

1 minute ago, Gatada said:

Hm?

Are not available in APhoto hence the intended behavior.

[MEB]

Layers in Designer are container elements that can have multiple types of object within (text, shapes, etc). Pixel layers in Photo are different - they can only hold pixel data. Same for groups which can also contain several object types - these are organisational/hierarchical entities.

[Gatada]

Just now, Return said:

Are not available in APhoto hence the intended behavior.

What? I don't follow. The option shown in the screenshot is from Settings in Affinity Photo 2.4.0.

[walt.farrell]

37 minutes ago, Gatada said:

Hm?

It will work if you use Layer > New Layer, which creates a Capital L Layer. The function is intended to work with container layers (Layer, Group), not with ordinary layers.

Sorry; forgot that in Photo that creates a pixel layer, not a Layer as in Designer/Publsher.

[Gatada]

1 minute ago, MEB said:

Layers in Designer are container elements that can have multiple types of object within (text, shapes, etc). Pixel layers in Photo are different - they can only hold pixel data.

What? Pixel layers aren't layers?

This makes zero sense. I would very much like no layer favouritism and have all Layers treated equally .. hehe

I want my pixel layers easily named, and should be included. Seriously, why does it make sense that they are not?

[Return]

6 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Accepting the default name

Auto naming should be the default aka any layer should be numbered from the start, no popup per object, this would drive most users insane hence the special container objects has this feature.

[Gatada]

2 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

It will work if you use Layer > New Layer, which creates a Capital L Layer. The function is intended to work with container layers (Layer, Group), not with ordinary layers.

No, when choosing Layer > New Layer in Affinity Photo 2.4.0 I am not asked to name the new layer.

[MEB]

27 minutes ago, Gatada said:

What? Pixel layers aren't layers?

This makes zero sense. I would very much like no layer favouritism and have all Layers treated equally .. hehe

I want my pixel layers easily named, and should be included. Seriously, why does it make sense that they are not?

Yes, they are different. Pixel layers are the equivalent to layers in Photoshop. Layers in Designer are equivalent to layers in Illustrator.
Since Affinity Photo is a photo editor it doesn't use layers as containers like Affinity Designer does.

Of course this functionality could also be added to Affinity Photo as an improvement, but currently that option is working as intended.

[Gatada]

2 minutes ago, Return said:

Auto naming should be the default aka any layer should be numbered from the start, no popup per object, this would drive most users insane hence the special container objects has this feature.

Yes, I believe this is default behaviour.

I feel like I am in Bizzaro world right now.

[Return]

6 minutes ago, Gatada said:

the option shown in the screenshot is from Settings in Affinity Photo 2.4.0.

I think here it only applies to groups so maybe the label is wrong for Layers although these could be brought over from the other apps since the affinities  uses an universal format.

 

[Gatada]

1 minute ago, MEB said:

Yes, they are different. Pixel layers are the equivalent of Layers in Photoshop. Layers in Designer re equivalent to Layers in Illustrator.

Hey, of course they are "different" - but in Affinity Photo the shortcut is Layer > Create Layer, which creates a Pixel Layer. So .. yeah. Clearly, Affinity Photo needs to be fixed. As this is not what I would expect.

[Gatada]

4 minutes ago, MEB said:

Yes, they are different. Pixel layers are the equivalent of Layers in Photoshop. Layers in Designer re equivalent to Layers in Illustrator.

Then stop using the word "Layer" in Affinity Photo.

Common.

[Return]

Welcome to the club and yes you will probably encounter more of these inconsistenties or oddities(sad but true even after 10 years)

[MEB]

It's is correct because Affinity Photo do not support Layers as containers natively. Only Designer and Publisher does. If you go to these apps and use the exact same command from the menu you will see they create a Layer (container) by default, not a pixel layer.

That's why in Affinity Photo we call them "pixel layers" and in Designer/Publisher just "layers" but since most people is used to layers for everything it does generate some confusion. Maybe the command in Photo should be Layer> New Pixel Layer.

[Return]

1 minute ago, MEB said:

If you go to these apps and use the exact same command from the menu you will see they create a Layer (container) by default, not a pixel layer.

Yes and that's a wrong implementation, it should be more distinctive.

[Alfred]

3 minutes ago, MEB said:

they create a Layer (container) by default

Isn’t the real issue here the decision to call the container a ‘Layer’ instead of … oh, I don’t know … a ‘Container’, perhaps?

[MEB]

14 minutes ago, Return said:

Yes and that's a wrong implementation, it should be more distinctive.

 

11 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Isn’t the real issue here the decision to call the container a ‘Layer’ instead of … oh, I don’t know … a ‘Container’, perhaps?

Not necessarily. For someone using any app individually the term "layer" covers the regular/expected use it has in that type of application (like in the case of Photoshop and Illustrator - both have layers, they differ in functionality between them and nobody ever questioned their name) but in our case where the apps are tightly integrated (StudioLink for example) the need to distinguish between them becomes important thus the "new" term "pixel layer".

@Alfred Maybe Container (for Layers) and Layer (for pixel layers) would have worked better but then nobody would understand the "Container" term and would eventually ask why didn't we call it Layer like everyone else...

@Gatada This doesn't mean we can't add a similar function for pixel layers (ask for a name on creation).

[Alfred]

1 minute ago, MEB said:

in our case where the app are tightly integrate the necessity to distinguish between them becomes important thus the "new" term "pixel layer"

I have no problem with the term “pixel layer”, Miguel. What I do find problematic, however, is the use of “Layer” with a capital L to refer to something functionally very different from “layer” with a lowercase L. It’s quite clear that I’m not alone here.

[walt.farrell]

11 minutes ago, MEB said:

 Maybe Container (for Layers) and Layer (for pixel layers) would have worked better but then nobody would understand the "Container" term and would eventually ask why didn't we call it Layer like everyone else...

There's another variant on the iPad, with the term Vector Layer. That is confusing because it is different from the desktop applications, and also can lead to the question of "what are shapes, Curves, etc." if not "vector layers"?