RAW image appears as colour in thumbnail but B&W when opened V 2.4.0

[stuartbarry]

I have just installed version 2.4. All images that I spent some time processing and saving as a linked RAW image in the previous version are now in B&W when I open them. The thumbnail both externally and when sown in navigator is colour. If I save the image as a jpg it is also B&W. Unless I have missed something or there is a simple fix I now have to re-process all my images.

[walt.farrell]

Can you share a sample .afphoto file and the linked RAW file?

[stuartbarry]

Not at the moment as I am travelling. But my post says it all. I have tried opening several linked RAW files and they all appear in B&W. As they start to appear they are in colour but when fully rendered they are in B&W. I have tried with various images from the last week and all the same. The original CR3 image renders correctly. Yet another problem for me to resolve with linked RAW files.

[Callum]

Hi Stuart,

I've just tested this here at my end with a .CR3 file and it seems to be working fine please could you provide the affinity project and linked raw file when you get chance so I can try and replicate this here?

Thanks
C

[stuartbarry]

It's random. So far the small number I have installed on my laptop today since installing the 2.4 update have worked properly. Anything created yesterday or earlier prior to the update may or may not work. I attach one at random that does not work, although it previously did.

20240220malaga1.afphoto 20240220malaga1.CR3

[stuartbarry]

I have tried this again now that I am home on 2 different systems: a MacBook pro running OSX 11.7.10 and an iMac running 14.2.1. The results are the same, but both are very strange. When I opened an image at random on either machine it came up in colour. After I closed it without making changes it was B&W. If I open the original CR3 file it is in colour.

[Ldina]

Just to provide some feedback, I opened your CR3 file on my MacBook Pro in Photo v2.4.0 and it opened properly in color. Running Ventura.

[stuartbarry]

The CR3 is not the problem. Make a change and save the image as a linked RAW file then try and re-open that file. It probably works the fist time but not the second.

[Ldina]

I tried what you said. No problem here.

1. Opened the CR3 as a Linked file (which is my standard workflow). Raw file was underexposed, so I added 2+ stops using Exposure in Develop Persona.

2. Made a few changes in Photo Persona, and went back and forth to Develop Persona a few times, no problems.

3. Saved afphoto file, closed and reopened multiple times, no problems. Even went back and forth to Develop Persona after reopening the afphoto file multiple times, again no problems here. 

All is working fine on my end. Hope you find what's going on. Perhaps an OS or hardware issue.

[Ldina]

...one last thought, I was using the Serif RAW Engine, not Apple. Not sure which you are using. 

[Murfee]

16 hours ago, Ldina said:

...one last thought, I was using the Serif RAW Engine, not Apple. Not sure which you are using. 

Hi Ldina, I am seeing the issue on Monterey when using the Apple Raw engine, with all raw files - NEF, previously all was fine

I have other software that uses the Apple raw engine and they open as expected, the issue seems to be restricted to Affinity with the Apple raw engine

[Hangman]

19 hours ago, Ldina said:

...one last thought, I was using the Serif RAW Engine, not Apple. Not sure which you are using. 

 

3 hours ago, Murfee said:

I have other software that uses the Apple raw engine and they open as expected, the issue seems to be restricted to Affinity with the Apple raw engine

I'm slightly confused as you can't select RAW Layer (Linked) when using the Apple (Core Image Raw) Engine, this is only applicable to the Serif Labs RAW Engine...

3 hours ago, Murfee said:

I am seeing the issue on Monterey when using the Apple Raw engine, with all raw files - NEF, previously all was fine

I'm not seeing any issues on Monterey regardless of which RAW Engine I'm using...

[Murfee]

4 minutes ago, Hangman said:

I'm slightly confused as you can't select RAW Layer (Linked) when using the Apple (Core Image Raw) Engine, this is only applicable to the Serif Labs RAW Engine...

Where are you getting (linked) from? I haven’t mentioned it

There does seem to be an issue for some users with the Apple raw engine … not that I use it, I was just having a fiddle when I had the issue

[walt.farrell]

16 minutes ago, Murfee said:

Where are you getting (linked) from? I haven’t mentioned it

This topic is about a problem using Linked Raw layers (see first post). So, if you're not using Linked Raw images, you probably don't have "the same problem" as we're discussing here.

[Hangman]

17 minutes ago, Murfee said:

Where are you getting (linked) from? I haven’t mentioned it

It was mentioned by @stuartbarry in the first post, I was just highlighting this is only an option when using the Serif Labs RAW Engine as you'd asked which engine was being used...

19 minutes ago, Murfee said:

There does seem to be an issue for some users with the Apple raw engine … not that I use it, I was just having a fiddle when I had the issue

There is another post relating to the same issue and I've now been able to replicate the problem, it happens when switching engines on the fly...

[stuartbarry]

I checked the other post. The difference in my case is that I have never changed the default setting from the Serif RAW engine. I did try changing it and closing/re-opening files but I was always left with the B&W image.  I cannot reproduce a particular case. I have tried many combinations of opening and closing (without changing the RAW engine) on 2 different computers and get inconsistent results. There is clearly a bug here as it did not happen in the previous release.

 

[Hangman]

9 minutes ago, stuartbarry said:

There is clearly a bug here as it did not happen in the previous release.

Out of interest, do you see the same issue with RAW Layer (Embedded)...

For me when using RAW Layer (Linked), the image seems to take ages to fully render but to date, other than switching the RAW Engine between opening RAW files, I'm not seeing any issues after making some adjustments, saving as a .afphoto file, closing and reopening the file and double-clicking to go back into the Develop Persona, i.e., the image remains in colour so I'm unsure what might be causing this for you...

I've tested with both Metal and OpenGL and with Hardware Acceleration on and off but I'll keep testing to see if I can replicate the issue...

It would perhaps be handy if you could upload a screen recording that shows the problem...

[stuartbarry]

I am not planning use embedded RAW due to its ridiculously high file size. In fact I have become a bit disillusioned with Affinity Photo due to various issues with linked RAW files. I have been waiting for months to see if a possible enhancement to linked RAW would come out whereby a thumbnail size can be specified. In the meantime I have been testing Capture One and am seriously thinking about switching. Yes, it is more expensive, but it has a superb RAW engine with layers that does not require a separate file and does not increase the file size significantly. It also integrates reasonably well with Neofinder which is still the best product I have come across for DAM. On the rare occasions when I might need something that Capture One cannot handle it provides round trip editing with Affinity Photo. Thanks to all for the help offered. It's just a shame that no-one from Serif seems to be taking much notice.

[Hangman]

Hi @stuartbarry,

This thread will get picked up by someone in the Serif Moderation team and should be logged as a bug for the Development Team to take a look at...

7 minutes ago, stuartbarry said:

I am not planning use embedded RAW due to its ridiculously high file size.

I totally understand, the question was really to assess whether, as a test, you see the same issue when using RAW Layer (Embedded) so we can rule that option in or out of the equation rather than suggesting you use it from a working point of view...

In comparison to Affinity Photo, Capture One is expensive, they have annual updates if you purchase a perpetual licence which is always pretty much the cost of the software all over again, though they also always have up to a 50% discount at certain points in the year, though they've now largely moved over to a monthly subscription model where you get the latest updates as they're released.

With the perpetual licence, you don't have to upgrade every year, you can decide whether the new features are worthwhile for your workflow. With the subscription version, you are effectively in Adobe territory but you do get year round updates along with Capture One Live and Capture One Mobile which depending on your needs can be great from a collaboration point of view.

They do have a superb RAW engine and the feature set has greatly improved over the years but Capture One is certainly not immune from bugs either... Just my two cents worth...

[stuartbarry]

I agree with your comments. I know that nothing is bug free. I dropped Adobe many years ago because of their intransigent subscription model having spent £000s over the years upgrading (when I considered there was good value). Capture One at least lets you choose between the 2 options and gives 20% nominal discount a year with the subscription model as a credit towards a perpetual licence. As a professional photographer I relied heavily on Lightroom and have been looking for a suitable replacement ever since. The people at Neofinder are very good and respond to enhancement requests, but they are stuck on the integration with Affinity Photo because Serif does not let their API access a larger thumbnail.

I have been testing a recent batch of RAW images with Capture One and can process them twice as fast as with Affinity Photo, partly because I don't have to keep jumping in and out of a special 'develop' area - it's all in one place with Capture One. I have not jumped ship yet, but it's looking very likely.

 

[stuartbarry]

Further to my last post I have taken this a stage further. If anyone is interested I attach some notes below, including an Apple Script to integrate NeoFinder and Capture One.

Workflow with NeoFinder and Capture One

 

Many years ago I used Lightroom as part of the full Adobe suite that I upgraded every 1-2 years as a major release came out. Once Adobe switched to a subscription licensing model I stopped using their products. I did not wish to wake up one day and find that I could not access my back catalogue.

 

For photo editing I switched to Affinity Photo, just as good as Photoshop for my purposes. After a bit of looking around I started using NeoFinder as my digital catalogue.

 

NeofFinder is now an invaluable tool: good value for money, fast, works on all file types and has lots of good features, especially geotagging.

 

Recently Affinity Photo came out with a better RAW image processing option allowing linked files to contain a record of edits. This seemed a perfect companion to NeoFinder except that 2 thumbnails were required in the catalogue and the edited thumbnail could only be displayed as a tiny image - any enlargement resulted in a pixelated image that was of no use. Affinity Photo has been promising to improve this situation for some time, but I have now given up waiting.

 

I recently installed a trial version of Capture One. I was immediately impressed with all aspects of the product. It is very easy to use, there is lots of help and processing batches of images from a shoot is very fast. I am almost certainly going to buy the product. They have both a subscription model and a perpetual licence. On this occasion I shall start with the subscription model because I earn a 20% credit towards the perpetual licence for every year of use, so can switch at a realistic cost at any time.

 

Here is how this workflow has improved my productivity and quality.

 

Capturing images

 

Images can be captured directly in Capture One through various methods, including live wireless tethering. I have tried all methods and they work smoothly. But NeoFinder for me provides a superior catalog solution, so this will remain as my digital catalogue. It also manages other files that would not be in Capture One. Examples of where this works better for me:

 

• I shoot both stills and video. I don’t want video to be handled in Capture One. NeoFinder’s metadata and geotagging can be used across both file types.
• Geotagging is much better in NeoFinder. If a geotag is missing I can drop a pin onto its map and get place names updated.
• NeoFinder links to a variety of external maps. I prefer to use Open Street Map - Capture One only links to Google Maps.
• If I show the map view in NeoFinder I can ask it to show all images from that area and then edit them directly in Capture One.
• NeoFinder has good links to Wikipedia, so that information relevant to the subject can be dropped into an image’s metadata.
• NeoFinder’s metadata can be customised to deal with specific situations.
• NeoFinder’s search capabilities are more extensive and faster, including a link to Apple’s context tagging - easy to find all images contains (say) a window.

 

Both NeoFinder and Capture One rely on an underlying physical folder structure, although this can be any number of folders across any number of hard drives. In each case a catalogue can be a folder or your entire image collection. I prefer to separate my images into a catalogue per year, with a folder inside for each month. Outside of that physical structure both products can organise all the images into any virtual catalogue structure without you needing to be much aware of the physical structure.

 

Once I have imported a new batch into NeoFinder I rename according my template, add my standard metadata and ensure that all geotag information is correct. If appropriate I can people names from my list. I have mostly given up adding keywords because I can find anything I want through the various NeoFinder options.

 

With one click I import the new folder into my main catalogue in Capture One. All the star ratings, colour codes and all other information are there because both products synchronise metadata.

 

This is where things are much better than before. I can slice and dice the images in Capture One into any subset that I like for editing. That group then shows up as a batch and I can edit singly or apply changes to all images at once, something that was impossible with Affinity Photo. The speed of editing is impressive. I am now making good use of styles where an image style can be applied to a batch with one click. Speed editing allows you to change the main parameters (exposure, brightness etc.) using shortcuts with having to go to the menu. It’s a matter of taste, but I much prefer this interface to the Lightroom interface.

 

AI masking is particularly impressive. Elements such as sky or object can be masked with a click and edited on a new layer. The layer structure keeps different edits separate.

 

The Capture One catalogue size remains small if you opt to reference the images rather than import them.

 

Location shooting

 

I shoot lots of travel images for stock. When I am on a trip I need the full capabilities of both programs, but need to integrate new images into my master catalogue when I get home. Working this way means that all the work of adding metadata and editing is done on the road and not a massive load when I get home.

 

 

Capture One has an impressive option to manage this workflow: sessions. For a trip I create a new session (or several for a long trip). Each day I just select all the day’s images from NeoFinder and drag them into the Capture One session. Instead of building a new catalogue Capture One just references the files (a bit like Adobe Bridge), while still allowing all the editing functions. On return home I just import the session into my main catalogue.

 

Individual editing

Both NeoFinder and Capture One support Apple Scripts. I have written a script for NeoFinder to allow me to click on an image that I wish to edit and it opens in Capture One. The script is below and can be copied. I also have one for Affinity Photo is anyone wants it.

 

tell application "NeoFinder"

set myList to selected items

repeat with theItem in myList

set myName to name of theItem

set the clipboard to myName

-- log {myName}

end repeat

end tell

 

-- Get the filename from the clipboard

set filename to (the clipboard) as string

 

-- Select the image in Capture One

tell application "Capture One" to activate

delay 1

 

tell application "Capture One"

tell application "System Events"

--set frontmost to true

keystroke "f" using {command down}

delay 1

keystroke filename

delay 1

keystroke return

end tell

end tell

 

Summary

 

While not the cheapest solution, if you are a professional or serious amateur this combination should offer a lot of possibilities and not lock you into one supplier.

[Affinity Info Bot]

The issue "Certain RAW images render in black and white when developed on macOS" (REF: AF-2179) has been fixed by the developers in internal build "2.5.0.2375".
This fix should soon be available as a customer beta and is planned for inclusion in the next customer release.
Customer beta builds are announced here and you can participate by following these instructions.
If you still experience this problem once you are using that build version (or later) please reply to this thread including @Affinity Info Bot to notify us.

[Affinity Info Bot]

The issue "Certain RAW images render in black and white when developed on macOS" (REF: AF-2179) has been fixed by the developers in internal build "2.5.0.2375".
This fix should soon be available as a customer beta and is planned for inclusion in the next customer release.
Customer beta builds are announced here and you can participate by following these instructions.
If you still experience this problem once you are using that build version (or later) please reply to this thread including @Affinity Info Bot to notify us.