Edits made to RAW file in Develop persona lost when Developing the file

[Steve Ballard]

I am in the process of editing approx 60 RAW files (one at a time). In about 10 to 15 cases the edits I made to the RAW in the Develop Persona were lost/discarded during the Develop process. In most cases I started again and second time was OK and in very few cases (just 1 or 2) the second attempt also failed. I haven't tried a third time. The files are Sony RAW (.ARW) and I have experienced the problem with files from a Sony A7 and a Sony A77

[Ron P.]

@Steve Ballard,

What edits are you making in the Develop Persona? Are they real obvious or subtle? 

Some adjustments you need to be zoomed to 100% to really see them. I have noticed for the Sharpening, there's a subtle loss.

Could you attach a RAW file so we and Serif can test it?  I've tried replicating this on my CR2 Canon files and can not. FWIW, if you really want to see if your edits are being lost, discarded when developed, try making some radical, wild adjustments and see if they're lost.

It seems like a lot is getting blamed on the Hardware Acceleration/OpenCL. Could you check and if it is enabled, disable it to see if that might be your issue? Find it in AP's Preferences>Performance tab.

FWIW, I download a couple of Sample ARW files from here: Sony A7Rii Sample Images. Using those, I could not replicate losing edits.

[Steve Ballard]

There is nothing subtle about the edits where I noticed they were dropped. The edits were generally one or more of Exposure control, Shadow & Highlights and Contrast, and all of a noticeable amount. I am photographing old slides (from 1970s and 80s) and their exposure is all over the place. I have attached one RAW file where the problem occurred once, but was OK on the second attempt. I have also attached a screen shot showing the extent of the changes (-1.3 exposure, 21% contrast and -17% highlights); this would be similar to the edits when the failure occurred. The screen shot is from this morning for the purpose of this reply and they developed OK on this occasion.

DSC06280.ARW

[Steve Ballard]

I forgot to mention that I don't have Hardware Acceleration/OpenCL set (it seems my system doesn't support it)

[carl123]

What Output (in the context toolbar) are you Developing these RAW files to?

[Steve Ballard]

The output is Pixel file.

[Ron P.]

@Steve Ballard,

Thank you for providing the file. I've downloaded it and have been testing using it. I'm not seeing any significant loss.

Part of what would affect what you're seeing and I'm not is how we develop the file. I noticed when I developed it, the Histogram would not look like the one in your screenshot. I finally managed to develop where they looked similar. To do this I had to have the Apply Tone Curve and Exposure Bias set in the Develop Assistant. It applies a lot of exposure, thus I think is why your Exposure setting is -1.3. I do not have AP apply those, I want to control that.

Everyone will have their own method of RAW file development. This also depends on the software being used. I use a different method in AP, than used in Lightroom or Paintshop Pro (Aftershot).

Here's a screen grab of what I see and how I develop RAW in AP. Keep in mind that I do not use the Tone Curve & Exposure Bias.

[Ron P.]

Here's a quick screen grab showing the difference when AP applies Tone Curve  Exposure Bias. I did not develop in this screen grab, as I have done this numerous times and still could not see a loss in what the Develop Persona produced.

FWIW, I do not rely that much on Histograms when editing, developing files. I use my eyes more. I try to keep the Blacks & Whites from Clipping, but there are areas in some images that it's ok to let them, and probably can't be recovered anyway, or what I'm seeing in the image, and want it to look like, they must be clipped, ie; don't want the viewer to be looking at those...

 

 

[Steve Ballard]

Thanks for the processing information, but I don't see how that progresses the issue of "edit loss". I appreciate it is an intermittent problem and therefore tricky to find, but it is a definite problem to the point that for this task of digitising old slides (several hundred) I have abandoned Photo 2 and returned to Photo 1.

In case it is relevant my wider workflow involves loading 4 RAW images at a time from Sony PlayMemories Home (an intermediate batch file is needed due to the install issue that stops direct invoking of Photo 2 from other programs). Each RAW image is then processed in turn. Every so often (again random) Photo 2 shows signs of slowing and shortly following this will crash or lock up. I haven't noticed any link between the edit loss and the crashes. My editing, both to the RAW and the developed images are simple as the result needed only has to be reasonable. My RAM usage limit I have increased to just short of 40K MB, not specifically for this task.

[Ron P.]

59 minutes ago, Steve Ballard said:

but I don't see how that progresses the issue of "edit loss"

Just trying to get to the same starting point of the image processing you're seeing before Developing to the Photo Persona. Not saying there's not some bug, but so far haven't seen that, no matter how I develop it.

[Steve Ballard]

Fair does. I'll switch back to using Photo 2 for my slide processing and keep a more detailed note of process sequences I use so I can provide this when/if the problem occurs again.

[RichardMH]

I also downloaded your image and have no problems with it. Maybe reset your user data. Hold control when you start Photo. (Backup macros and assets etc first)

[Steve Ballard]

The attached RAW file had the failure twice this morning.  Edits where simple, first exposure increased by approx 0.75 then contrast by 15%. Press Develop and the edits are lost. I tried a 2nd and 3rd time and all three failed. On the third I did a screen capture at the three relevant stages, i.e. before any editing, after edits but still in Develop persona and immediately after Develop pressed. There were three other RAW files loaded at the same time, this was the first to be processed.

I then made a 4th Attempt with no other files loaded. This worked OK.

DSC06301.ARW

[RichardMH]

What colour space are you using in Photo Persona?

[Steve Ballard]

Camera is set to give sRGB. I haven't changed any colour settings in Photo. See attached for detail of settings

[Ron P.]

I'm still not seeing any loss.

FWIW, I have the 32bit RGB Profile set to ROMM (basically for working with HDR). In the Develop Assistant I have the RAW Output set to RGB 16bit. 

[Steve Ballard]

Seeing your comment I perhaps didn't understand your earlier question. I have been using RGB 16bit. My use of RGB 32 bit is limited to situations when I particularly want the additional detail. So far with Photo 2 this hasn'r happened.

[B.D.]

I have the same problem After editing in develop persona and saving, edits are gone.

[walt.farrell]

On 1/4/2023 at 6:16 AM, Steve Ballard said:

On the third I did a screen capture at the three relevant stages, i.e. before any editing, after edits but still in Develop persona and immediately after Develop pressed.

For the future: It would be more helpful, in my opinion, to have the screenshots include the complete application window so we can see everything (both left/right studios, menu, toolbars, etc.) as there is often relevant information that someone trying to provide answers may need, that the user with a problem may not think about.

However, from what you said: Has this only happened with multiple RAW images loaded?

[Steve Ballard]

Point noted.

But I do have to correct the multiple RAW images report. Shortly after I posted that comment I experienced the problem with a single image loaded. I had switched my work method to single image as I thought this may avoid the problem, but it wasn't long before it happened again in that mode. I am inclined to think it has something to do with the number of images processed since Photo 2 was loaded regardless of whether multiple of single loading/processing used. I have no proof of this though.

I don't restart my system often as I usually hibernate at the end of day rather than close down which means Photo 2 is not reloaded often, generally only when it crashes or locks up. 

 

 

[RichardMH]

Have you tried resetting your user data? Hold control when you start Photo. (Back up assets and macros etc first)

[Steve Ballard]

I cleared Assets and Macros (although Assets empty as nothing of Assets has worked for me in Photo 2). Then the first image I processed failed. So also blows a hole in my little theory about it being connected to number of previous images processed since last restart.

[Steve grumpy]

I have the same problem, it seems to be completely random.

[Chris B]

I am seeing reports elsewhere of edits not being saved. 

There was the issue with say, the Blemish Removal Tool but I'm sure that got fixed as I can no longer reproduce it. I'm keeping my eyes out for any reproducible recipe. 

[Chris B]

I believe we have an answer as to what's causing this. It happens when I open 2x raw files at the same time. Changes made under the Basic panel such as Enchance, Shadows & Highlights etc. are not saved. The other files opened at the same time seem to retain the changes.

See this thread -