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Is this a bug, an unintended feature or just my ignorance of Photo's awesomeness?


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I was trying to work something out and fiddling about in photo as you do.

I had a new pixel blank layer as the top layer - visible -  i.e. 'is visible' check box checked.

Below there are number of png image layers - not visible.

I was on a 'not-visible' png layer (selected) and, with the 'flood select tool' enabled double clicked on the blank 'paper' of the layer (no idea why), when the marching ants appeared showing the outline of the invisible texture, which I thought was interesting.

I selected the top visible pixel layer and the marching ants were still there, so I experimented with the 'bucket fill' and was able to colour the background. It occurred to me to invert the selection and then I could flood fill the separate elements - flowers in this case. On pressing cmd+d the ants disappeared and I was left with a the coloured in pixel layer. The original png image layer was not changed.

I found I could also do this with the png image layer, visible or not, by using the 'flood select tool' and then creating a new pixel layer when the marching ants appeared, selecting it and flood filling it in; I haven't tried doing anything else so far. In either case, the original layer is unaffected.

I hope I have made this clear.

So the question is 'Is this a bug, an unintended feature or just my ignorance of Photo's awesomeness'?

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Hiding a pixel layer does not prevent you from interacting with it if it is selected in the layers panel

So, you can still do things such as painting on it, moving it, making a selection on it and copying stuff from it etc.

 

R.I.P

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13 minutes ago, carl123 said:

Hiding a pixel layer does not prevent you from interacting with it if it is selected in the layers panel

So, you can still do things such as painting on it, moving it, making a selection on it and copying stuff from it etc.

 

As far as I remember it is different in Photoshop. Or even it was as I used to work with it. Didn't notice yet that is possible in Photo. I remember that I was surprised as I saw that I could paint on invisible layers in GIMP, which is a thing you probably often don't want, because it can destroy documents while you don't notice it for a long time. I think in GIMP there is a setting in the preferences that gives you the choice to be able to manipulate hidden layers or not (have to check if I'm not yiing). There may be cases when it may be helpful to be able to manipulate hidden layers, but most times, I think, it is even more risky.

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Having a more systematic look at the situation:

Layers have lots of different properties you may want to deactivate individually, independent from other properties of the same layer, and independent from the same property of other layers:

  • visibility on canvas
  • visibility on export
  • view mode (vector, outline, pixel)
  • Edits
  • special edits (patch / inpaint)
  • selections (defining selection)
  • selections (affecting edits)
  • Lock: transform actions (move tool)
  • blend parameters (mode,, opacity, anti-aliasing, gamma)

Affinity Apps allow to (de-)activate some of these properties either:

  • globally (selection properties, show or edit color channels, view mode)
  • per layer (blend options, visible for canvas)
  • per tool activation (clone and patch tool, current layer or current and below)
  • not at all (protect against edits)

From my user perspective, i would like to be able to choose every property either

  • globally or
  • per layer (incl. grouping / inheritage like blend options).
  • Define own defaults (clone / patch tool, affected layers)
  • memory for last state (clone / patch tool)

But such a systematic approach may never come, not even in Affinity 2.0

Instead, we have a long time grown mix of unsystematic behavior, partial compatibility to other Apps, partial “exotic” UI.

I would love to see a complete overhaul.

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Any idea, why it works differently in APubs Photo Persona? There a layer set to invisible is excluded from the Flood Select Tool.

macOS 10.14.6, MacBookPro Retina 15" + Eizo 27"

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3 hours ago, carl123 said:

Hiding a pixel layer does not prevent you from interacting with it if it is selected in the layers panel

So, you can still do things such as painting on it, moving it, making a selection on it and copying stuff from it etc.

 

So it seems, but what I find interesting is that when you have done the work with the 'flood select tool' (in this case) on the image layer, then create and select a pixel layer above it (I haven't tried it below) the marching ants are still apparent on the pixel layer and can be filled with the 'flood fill tool', leaving the original image layer unaltered. Nothing has been done with the image layer other than make selections, which have not been copied nor pasted to the pixel layer, so how does the new pixel layer have the active marching ants on it which are able to be flood filled in?. If anything should happen, surely it is the original image layer that should be altered?

Dell Inspiron 15 7000 Series 7559 - i7 6700HQ - 16Mb RAM - 128Gb SSD 1Tb HD

Nvidia GEFORCE GTX 960M 4Gb GDDR5 RAM - 4K Touch Screen

___

Asus N56V i7 3630QM 2.40GHz; 8Mb RAM; 1Tb HD; 64 bit.

Nvidia GEFORCE GT 650M 2Gb: 1920 x 1080

2nd Monitor: Asus ProArt  24": 1920 x 1200

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ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB : Asus ProArt  24": 1920 x 1200

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7 minutes ago, GRH said:

So it seems, but what I find interesting is that when you have done the work with the 'flood select tool' (in this case) on the image layer, then create and select a pixel layer above it (I haven't tried it below) the marching ants are still apparent on the pixel layer and can be filled with the 'flood fill tool', leaving the original image layer unaltered.

Pixel selection are “independent” from layers. They can be created from a single layer (selected in the layer stack), or using all layers.

Then, any edits applied while a selection is active will respect the selection, and impact the selected layer (in the layer stack) only.

This is unfortunate that the term “selection” is use for 2 different purposes: layer in layer stack, and pixel selection on canvas.

It becomes even more complex when you realize that canvas:

  • has fixed (but changeable) size (number of pixel in x and y axis)
  • cannot be rotated or skewed

whereas  layers

  • Can be rotated, stretched by different factors x/y, skewed

This is why resampling kicks in, to map / convert between canvas and layers. There are multiple aspects looking surprising and bogus, which are actually well defined and correct / intended behavior.

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12 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

Pixel selection are “independent” from layers. They can be created from a single layer (selected in the layer stack), or using all layers.

Then, any edits applied while a selection is active will respect the selection, and impact the selected layer (in the layer stack) only.

This is unfortunate that the term “selection” is use for 2 different purposes: layer in layer stack, and pixel selection on canvas.

It becomes even more complex when you realize that canvas:

  • has fixed (but changeable) size (number of pixel in x and y axis)
  • cannot be rotated or skewed

whereas  layers

  • Can be rotated, stretched by different factors x/y, skewed

This is why resampling kicks in, to map / convert between canvas and layers. There are multiple aspects looking surprising and bogus, which are actually well defined and correct / intended behavior.

Thanks for your answer, I think I comprehend it, have to let that one mellow a bit whilst it sinks in.
In the meantime, surprising, bogus, correct or otherwise behaviour, it is going to be very useful to me, and I shall fiddle with it to see what else I can do with it.

Dell Inspiron 15 7000 Series 7559 - i7 6700HQ - 16Mb RAM - 128Gb SSD 1Tb HD

Nvidia GEFORCE GTX 960M 4Gb GDDR5 RAM - 4K Touch Screen

___

Asus N56V i7 3630QM 2.40GHz; 8Mb RAM; 1Tb HD; 64 bit.

Nvidia GEFORCE GT 650M 2Gb: 1920 x 1080

2nd Monitor: Asus ProArt  24": 1920 x 1200

------

Mac Pro (Mid 2010) : 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon : 16 GB 800 MHz DDR3 RAM

ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB : Asus ProArt  24": 1920 x 1200

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3 hours ago, thomaso said:

Any idea, why it works differently in APubs Photo Persona? There a layer set to invisible is excluded from by the Flood Select Tool.

I don't see that. For me, it works the same in either application.

Can you provide a sample document where it works differently, and a screenshot of the workspace, including the Context Toolbar and Layers panel, where it worked differently for you?

-- Walt

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20 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Can you provide a sample document where it works differently, and a screenshot of the workspace, including the Context Toolbar and Layers panel, where it worked differently for you?

Not only in APub's Photo Persona, also in APhoto a Flood Selection doesn't always select hidden layer content but rather depends on my choice for Source: "All" or "Current".

macOS 10.14.6, MacBookPro Retina 15" + Eizo 27"

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4 hours ago, GRH said:

how does the new pixel layer have the active marching ants on it which are able to be flood filled in?. If anything should happen, surely it is the original image layer that should be altered?

It is the selected layer that will be filled. You can make a marching ants (marquee) selection without having any layers in a document. It is just a selection of pixels with some opacity and some x, y coordinates.

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On 5/29/2022 at 9:59 AM, thomaso said:

Not only in APub's Photo Persona, also in APhoto a Flood Selection doesn't always select hidden layer content but rather depends on my choice for Source: "All" or "Current".

It would certainly depend on your choice for Source.

Was there anything in your video that seemed incorrect to you? If so, at what time within the video?

-- Walt

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

It would certainly depend on your choice for Source.

Was there anything in your video that seemed incorrect to you?

No, thanks, I am fine with this.
I was rather wondering about the OP's wondering, respectively none of the responses mentioning this setting. Possibly I have entirely misunderstood the OP's concern, I thought they would not be able to flood select without affecting invisible layers at all.

macOS 10.14.6, MacBookPro Retina 15" + Eizo 27"

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