Gradient with global colour

[jki]

Hello everybody,
I'm trying to control a gradient fill as described in the feature overview as possible using global colors.
So far I have not found a way to do this.
Can someone help here?

Copy from Technical Specification page:

Global Colours
Update objects when their base colour changes
Tint levels are retained when base colour updates
Use as solid colours or in gradients

[Lee D]

Create your Spot colours first as a Document palette will be created. Using the Gradient Tool, apply the gradient, now click the gradient colour example on the Context toolbar. On the Gradient panel, click one of the colour nodes of the gradient and then click the Colour preview. Switch the dropdown menu to Swatches and then select the Document palette on the other dropdown menu.

[Jens Schmidt]

This does not work as intended.

[Lorox]

Why doesn't this work??? Obviously it is not possible to edit a gradient fill swatch once it's been added to – say – a document palette because by ”Edit Fill“ you can just access a single solid colour (via slider, wheel or swatches) whereas a gradient is obviously/necessarily made up of at least two solid colours! The fact that this specific swatch is actually a gradient is totally ignored by the app when you choose "Edit Fill".

This – unfortunately – means that a gradient fill swatch can never be a global swatch, even if it's been originally been created using global colours as stops within the gradient.

Now: you CAN actually edit the global colours which make up the gradient in question and the gradient will change accordingly with any OBJECT it has been applied to formerly BUT the swatch of that original gradient (edited now via its defining colous having been edited) will NOT change in the palette. So you can't quickly apply the updated gradient to another object – you don't have a new/edited gradient swatch in the palette but the old/original one will persist.

I don't remember having any of these annoying difficulties in InDesign or Illustrator and it sort of hurts me when my new favourite apps behave so strangely...

[loukash]

3 hours ago, Lorox said:

Obviously it is not possible to edit a gradient fill swatch once it's been added to – say – a document palette

It's a bit of a counterintuitive workaround, but:

1. select the gradient swatch
2. Node tool
3. edit your gradient in the context toolbar
4. add edited gradient as a new swatch
5. in Designer (use File > Edit in Designer if you're in another app): Select > Select Same > Fill Color
6. apply the new gradient to all selected objects

3 hours ago, Lorox said:

a gradient fill swatch can never be a global swatch

That's definitely an omission.

3 hours ago, Lorox said:

I don't remember having any of these annoying difficulties in InDesign or Illustrator

But I do remember having many other "annoying difficulties" that I don't have now. ;)
And checking out the Gradient tool in InDesign CS5.5 as we speak, there are quite some odd quirks as well.

That said, it should be definitely easier and more straightforward to edit gradient swatches in Affinity.

[Lorox]

1 hour ago, loukash said:

• select the gradient swatch
• Node tool
• edit your gradient in the context toolbar
• add edited gradient as a new swatch
• in Designer (use File > Edit in Designer if you're in another app): Select > Select Same > Fill Color
• apply the new gradient to all selected objects

Yeah, obviously selecting the Node Tool serves the purpose as well (as does selecting Rectangle, Circle (or whatever) or the Pen Tool).

And well, after editing you have to save a new gradient swatch as you haven't actually been editing the old one. Accordingly there's no automatic change in objects having the old one assigned unless they have been selected first (which in complex illustrations may be quite a cumbersome task...).

And yes, it wasn't all perfect with AI and ID (and I generally do love working in Designer, Photo and Publisher), but especially in terms of ergonomics the guys at Adobe got a lot of things right over the years.
Speaking of this it strikes me every time as quite annoying in the Affinity Apps when I have to use the context menu e.g. only to just rename a colour swatch or a palette. Why can't we just double click on the name like we can (and always could) in the Layers Palette? This is so inconsistent in terms of UI and really deserves to be changed. Often it's in the small things, what makes you really comfortable using this or that app. Another example: I think that Inkscape has – its several known shortcomings set aside – a lot of really interesting features for a vector graphics app but the UI – to me at least – is some kind of an "ubercomplex" nightmare and accordingly I tend to avoid using it if I don't necessarily have to (e.g. for image tracing as Designer still hasn't got that feature).

[loukash]

39 minutes ago, Lorox said:

in terms of ergonomics the guys at Adobe got a lot of things right over the years.

I'd beg to differ. :P
I still haven't fully recovered since the Schmadobe crooks took my beloved Freehand from me.
In other words, I wouldn't have used AI until present day if I hadn't to, but it would have had somewhat sucked having to run Freehand 9 in the Classic environment on my antique PowerMac G4 466 MHz in 2021… (for the record, I have actually booted that old beast a few months ago and it still works!)

[loukash]

48 minutes ago, Lorox said:

it strikes me every time as quite annoying in the Affinity Apps when I have to use the context menu e.g. only to just rename a colour swatch or a palette.

Yup, one of those many UI inconsistencies where you literally have to face palm, asking yourself what the Serif staff has been smoking.

[thomaso]

3 hours ago, loukash said:

• select the gradient swatch
• Node tool
• edit your gradient in the context toolbar

Quite strange that editing an existing gradient swatch does neither work via the Swatches Panel nor the Color Panel and also not with the Fill Tool selected, which, in my impression, is meant to be specialised on gradients – but instead needs the Node Tool or one of the Shape Tools if no object is selected + requires to create a new swatch instead editing the currently selected.

[Fun Art Sam]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:17 AM, loukash said:

It's a bit of a counterintuitive workaround, but:

1. select the gradient swatch
2. Node tool
3. edit your gradient in the context toolbar
4. add edited gradient as a new swatch
5. in Designer (use File > Edit in Designer if you're in another app): Select > Select Same > Fill Color
6. apply the new gradient to all selected objects

That's definitely an omission.

But I do remember having many other "annoying difficulties" that I don't have now.
And checking out the Gradient tool in InDesign CS5.5 as we speak, there are quite some odd quirks as well.

That said, it should be definitely easier and more straightforward to edit gradient swatches in Affinity.

Thank you so much! This is such a great solution. I hope Affinity implements global-gradient-color swatches in the future! 

[Kal]

On 4/16/2021 at 8:45 PM, Lorox said:

Now: you CAN actually edit the global colours which make up the gradient in question and the gradient will change accordingly with any OBJECT it has been applied to

Not my experience IF you have created a gradient swatch (non global as previously discussed) and then applied that swatch to an object.

In the attached screen recording, the two bottom objects have the exact same gradient applied (I just duplicated the top object). The only difference is that I clicked on the gradient swatch after selecting the bottom object. Look at what happens when I then edit one of the global colours…

A pretty major bug IMO, as it makes gradient swatches all but useless.

(Apologies for the massive dimensions of the embedded video. I can't find a way to stop it scaling up like that.)

[NotMyFault]

It works when strictly following the steps.

1. while using the gradient tool, assign a global color to the node.
2. to create a swatch of the gradient: switch from gradient tool to node tool or shape tool. The gradient is not global! Only the nodes that used a GC react to edits of that GC, for all objects using that gradients. The gradient will forever show the color values used at the time it was created.
3. to modify the swatch impacting the gradient, you must edit (in color panel) the single color swatch used in the gradient node, not the gradient swatch.
4. only existing objects using the gradient are updated. 
   the gradient stays unchanged. If you apply it to new objects, the colors used during creating of grad swatch will be used. You. Must remember to edit the global color again (just change any slider and go back to the old value), then the gradient swatch will recognize the change.
   This topic no. 4 is a bug in my eyes.

 

[NotMyFault]

A theoretical (means impractical) workaround to reduce effort is always add one gradient node with a specific global color, to every gradient created.

Whenever you change any global color, you must edit this „gradient trigger“ global color to get all gradients updated.

This trigger color/node should be practically invisible. Choosing „no color“ will crash Affinity (on iPad), so reducing opacity to 0 may do. You must put this node at as first, last with closest possible distance to other nodes, or bracket between 2 nodes having the same global color.

Again, more a thought experiment that a workaround.

it just spares you from remembering what gc were used in what gradients.

[Kal]

4 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

It works when strictly following the steps.

1. while using the gradient tool, assign a global color to the node.
2. to create a swatch of the gradient: switch from gradient tool to node tool or shape tool. The gradient is not global! Only the nodes that used a GC react to edits of that GC, for all objects using that gradients. The gradient will forever show the color values used at the time it was created.
3. to modify the swatch impacting the gradient, you must edit (in color panel) the single color swatch used in the gradient node, not the gradient swatch.
4. only existing objects using the gradient are updated. 
   the gradient stays unchanged. If you apply it to new objects, the colors used during creating of grad swatch will be used. You. Must remember to edit the global color again (just change any slider and go back to the old value), then the gradient swatch will recognize the change.
   This topic no. 4 is a bug in my eyes.

I tried following your steps and cannot reproduce that behaviour. Any object that is filled by clicking on the gradient swatch stays unchanged when I edit the global colours.

Not sure if I'm missing something. The video doesn't really help clarify the steps as it's very hard to tell what's happening when you can't see your cursor. For the record, I had not used the gradient tool when setting up my test. I had the move tool selected throughout, and just created the gradient from the fill drop down at the top left of the contextual toolbar.

[NotMyFault]

56 minutes ago, Kal said:

Any object that is filled by clicking on the gradient swatch stays unchanged when I edit the global colours.

You Video cuts off all UI elements.

please show us what you are doing, including UI elements, and panels.

if possible add a text frame with a numerated list of every step (down to UI action like clicking somewhere)

start with one single shape, and empty global palette, when you create the first GC and gradient where you use that GC.

when done, create 2 more shapes:

one using that sold GC

one using the gradient.

and another in grey.

then start editing the global color.

have these panels visible while recording:

• layer
• color
• swatches (always the document palette you created)
• history
• navigator

which os do you use?

[NotMyFault]

Extended tutorial

[NotMyFault]

If a gradient contains multiple global colors, unfortunately every must be touched again.

[Kal]

38 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

please show us what you are doing, including UI elements, and panels.

Again, I'm not sure how helpful a video of the entire UI is, unless you can follow the cursor movement around. But here is a more detailed breakdown of the steps I'm taking:

1. Create new document.
2. 'Add Document Palette' from Swatches panel menu. (I named mine 'Document'.)
3. Create two new global colours in the Document Palette (either from the Swatches panel menu or by clicking the icon).
4. Select Rectangle tool and draw a rectangle. (You can keep the Rectangle tool selected or switch to the Move tool. The end result is the same.)
5. Without deselecting the rectangle, click on the Fill box at the top left of the contextual toolbar.
6. Switch to the Gradient tab.
7. Select the left node, then click on the colour box, and switch to Swatches.
8. Select the first global swatch you created (Global Colour 1).
9. Repeat for the right node, and select the second global swatch (Global Colour 2).
10. With the rectangle still selected, create a new gradient swatch by clicking the 'Add current fill to palette' icon in the Swatches palette.
11. Deselect the rectangle.
12. Create a second rectangle.
13. With the new rectangle still selected, click on the gradient swatch you created in step 10.
14. Deselect the second rectangle.
15. Edit either of the global colours (by double clicking on them in the Swatches palette or clicking the 'Edit Global Colour' button in the Colour palette) and select the HSL sliders.
16. Moving the hue slider back and forth produces the results I shared in my video, where the global colours change in the first rectangle, but not the second.

I'm using Designer 2.6.2 on Mac OS.

[NotMyFault]

4 minutes ago, Kal said:

Without deselecting the rectangle, click on the Fill box at the top left of the contextual toolbar.

Please use gradient fill tool, and draw. Gradient.

[NotMyFault]

It seems the style picker tool works more reliable than using gradient swatches.

[Kal]

29 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

Extended tutorial

Thanks for going to all the trouble of sharing that very detailed tutorial. I see you're using Photo, not Designer. In Designer, I can follow all your steps (yes, using the gradient tool), until I get to creating the gradient swatch. Oddly, I do not have the 'Add Current Fill to Palette' command at all, so I have no other option but to click the icon. Otherwise, I am following your steps precisely, and I am still not seeing that behaviour. The first two shapes change as expected, but the third one does not change.

I just tried it in Photo, and the results are exactly the same. I still do not have the 'Add Current Fill to Palette' command, so I create the gradient swatch using the icon button. Same result. The object that is filled from the gradient swatch does not change. It has lost all links to the global colour swatch.

[Kal]

At this point, I think we might just need to conclude that our systems are behaving differently. I'm using Designer and Photo versions 2.6.2 on Mac OS, and it just ain't working. 😕

[NotMyFault]

I will try later on Mac. Some UI differences exists, and maybe we found another rare case where iPad offers one feature more than Desktop.

[NotMyFault]

Designer on Mac is identical wrt GC and swatches.

add current fill to palette is a small symbol in swatches panel, right to name of palette, left to 4 default colors no / black / grey / white.

you can’t use the gradient function in toolbar. It’s another insanity of Affinity UI that a (defect) redundant copy of the color panel UI is implemented. In that UI you can’t choose swatches for gradients. If you select a swatch, it will overturn the gradient and apply a solid swatch.

you must use the gradient fill  tool. Then it works. Tested 5 minutes ago on Mac V2.5.7.