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SusanneB

beginning of vector brush stroke is frayed with xp-pen artist tablet

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Posted (edited)

When I start drawing the line it begins with a small circle even if I apply full pressure. When I continue to draw the line strange artefacts are produced. In the sample attached I tried to start with maximum pressure and releasing it while drawing further to the right.

Is there any way to fix it or work around that?

beispiel.afdesign

On Windows 10
latest version of affinity designer is installed

Edited by SusanneB

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Hi SusanneB and welcome to the forum! :)

Searching the Affinity forum for previous threads (using the Search box in the top right of each page) is always worth a try. Searching with 'xp-pen' gives several different threads relating to similar problems.

--------------------------

There are a number of excellent forum members with expertise in this area who can swoop by to help. Maybe @SrPx or @firstdefence (among many talented others) are flying about and ready to stop by with a pair of pliers and an oil can.

 

 


Affinity Designer & Photo  :  Win 10

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It is not too clear for me what is the problem (is one of those things that are better understood when watching a video). One thing I did notice is that the first raster line painted by designer when using the vector brush (the "preview" stroke/line, which has artifacts and that's normal, is a raw raster impronta), is more accurate to the actual pressure that the user puts in the pen, than when once released, the vector line is formed. It usually ended way thinner, and sometimes not respecting the variance I introduced. In Affinity Photo it works much more accurately, so I'm guessing is a problem with the vector system translating that pressure. But I am not an XP-Pen user, this happened to me with a Wacom Intuos 4 (so, the issue could be not XP-Pen related, if we're referring to the same issue). And it has been a while since I last painted anything in A. Designer, as I use it only for graphic design projects, in a "classic concept" : logos, brochures, etc (I use other tools for painting, mostly raster tools). So, yup, I'm not the best one to ask, but @firstdefence is indeed a user of XP-Pen Deco 03, as well as their display-pen solutions, I believe the 22E and the 16 inches model, not your 12. That said, consider that there is a bazillion tablets in the market, and it is an old issue in software that an app and tablet driver might collide. So, they tend to be interested in troubleshooting any kind of successful/famous model, and the xp 12 artist is definitely one (price king).

So, in the wait to other members with deeper experience with it (this is starting to look like a forum game, lol) , one thing I'd try is to play with different settings (if XP driver now allows different settings per different apps, like wacom does)  of pressure, adding maybe MORE sensitivity for the case of Affinity Designer in your global xp-pen driver settings (the control panel for it). This solves some of the "too thin" line issues, *sometimes*.  XP-Pen is also known to need more pressure tan wacom, meaning, at least as it comes by default, you need to put more pressure, so, is less for light sketchers, again, at least as it comes by default, compared to Wacom products. Touching well the settings shouldn't be an issue.

The other thing I strongly recommend (indeed... with any issue of this nature, when it isn't "I can't open this file", then it's mostly 'bout attaching the file...and etc)  is to try to make a screen recorded video -I tend to recommend OBS, there are versions for all platforms and seems to be consensus on it being relatively good, besides being free,  obsproject.com -  because is dozens of times easier to figure out what's going on there. Even subtle details in it do provide with clues.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Hi and thanks for replying to my question. And welcoming me. And sorry for not introducing myself properly - it was late and I was frustrated, if that's any excuse :-)

I just started with Affinity Designer and I had this problem right from the beginning. before I updated to the latest version it happended with every single stroke, now it happens frequently, but not with every stroke.

As adviced I captured it on video (thanks for the recommendation of OBS):

Please have a look at

00:23
00:29 (here the artefact is seen in preview, but when I release, it is gone. But the line thickness is not what it should be - I start with a lot of pressure, releasing it)
01:07 (artefact and zoom-in on what it looks like)

2019-10-07 21-37-54.mkv

The video is 4 MB, I hope that is ok. If not, let me know and I will have to look into how I can reduce the file size. I have not done video editing before on my computer (i.e. no clue and no software, probably), so that's why here is the lazy version.

It looked to me like the initial max pressure was not transmitted and then there was a very abrupt change in line thickness when this pressure was transmitted, leading to this artefacts. You can see when I move the handles, that it is just a really abrupt change in thickness. I thought I will just try to delete the first node. My reasoning was, that if it is a problem with the pressure not being correctly detected / translated / whatever for the first node, but then being ok for the second, that should remove the artefacts. However, the artefact is following to the second node, if I do this.

Thanks for taking your time to read this, it is appreciated

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Honestly, I don't use Affinity for any artwork from my XP-Pen, I prefer to use such as Corel Painter and the like.

20 hours ago, PixelPest said:

I find the "Pressure Profile" rather strange:

 PressureProfile.jpg.6d9dd8c2e32b8b544046d732aacd2341.jpg

 

The pressure curve is the result of drawing the line using Pressure as the controller, it's not a manually created profile. I suppose you could look at it as a recording of the pressure applied. 


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo & Publisher - Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - FeedbackInstagram & Flickr

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20 hours ago, SusanneB said:

I use the xp-pen artist 22HD.

Sorry! for some reason when I read that (xp-pen artist) I always think of the 12 inches model. I was thinking that was your model. The 22E or even the 22 old one are much better for work, IMO. You have a nice tablet.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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The tablet is very good, Affinity's creation of vector strokes is sub par, when you do the same thing in Illustrator the control is very nice, you don't get the skittish response that you get in Affinity, it's like it's overtly sensitive to movement and what you end up with are nodes with handles pointing in random directions, also the fade as you release the pressure is; for want of a better word, clumpy, it's an all or nothing affair, resulting in these stubbed and often times stepped lines. The fact you can edit the pressure curve to correct the line kind of shows the problem.

Illustrator has a grace when drawing vector lines and it's expression of pressure is very elegant.

I think the analogy might be the gear crunching novice and the F1 driver :D


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo & Publisher - Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - FeedbackInstagram & Flickr

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, SusanneB said:

here the artefact is seen in preview, but when I release, it is gone. But the line thickness is not what it should be - I start with a lot of pressure, releasing it

What I have noticed since the beginning in A. Designer (one of the reasons why I'd paint in Affinity Photo, instead), -and btw, using a very standard Wacom, not an xp- is that issue with non consistent thickness in every stroke, sometimes getting too thin. Edit: And yes, the random direction of the node handles, producing that jitter. Is like a problem with the grid, or resolution, or sth. What you notice about the difference of the raster preview and the final vector output, it is just how it works. I was told this back in the day, is just how it is done in Designer. I kind of prefer a lot more the immediate 1:1 appearance of my lines.  None of this, and certainly, not the artifact in 1:07 (that one, I am not noticing it, not sure if that's a XP-Pen - Affinity designer"collision, if so, this is the detail which they might be more interested to see, also as seems a bit buggy ... I'm tempted to tag on of the usual Designer's developers, but I've read that's not a good thing to do, so, let's hope they see this thread) should actually happen.

I...er... kind of... should not say this, but like firstdefence, I don't use Affinity for inking my art. These and other issues (that makes inking less "wysiwyg" with it, and in some cases, with artifacts) , which are not new ( several of  my first threads were about this in Designer and Photo, but currently I can get more accurate inking in Photo), although there have been improvements in aspects of it.

I don't know what is your workflow. But if you are only inking, you might want to give it a try to Photo (is extremely useful for other many other matters) for what is inking. Unless you totally need a vector output (I don't). Don't get me wrong, Designer is my main tool for anything "design" related, vectors based. But I neither used to paint / neither did my drawings, nor inking or sketching in Illustrator. Maybe if you tell us a bit about your workflow (don't need to give private details :) ) the advice could be better.

Anyway, I'm left with a doubt on if is there some particular issue with the XP 22" tablet. But so you know, many of those issues are familiar to me with a super standard Intuos 4.

1 hour ago, firstdefence said:

Honestly, I don't use Affinity for any artwork from my XP-Pen, I prefer to use such as Corel Painter and the like.

My take is that Designer is amazing for regular design stuff (logos, brochures, etc) or illustration specially "mouse based", which is how I've mostly conceived vectors works since always, anyway (precision, accuracy, control, clean output, etc). I indeed have painted with Photo, and complete paintings in it often. But... yep, my main painting tool is Clip Studio Paint, and I am  looking with verrry tender eyes a certain new tool : Expresii (watercolors for the moment, but oils and acrylics are planned to be added). I was more interested in Rebelle 3, but its GPU based nature (like Expresii, just that the latter is way better in performance) only allows really small canvases for my work. Art Rage tho, still in my radar, definitely. None of these tools compete really with Designer or Photo. Affinity tools can allow you to paint very professionally (I can, with Photo, make full digital paintings in large canvases), but these tools are ONLY for mimicking traditional media painting. You will still need Photo for preparing the file for print, exporting properly the PDF/X, and a huge etc. That is : I think for just anyone doing any graphic task, today you need two tools like these from affinity: One global tool for raster, pixels (which in the case of photo, can be used for specifically digital painting, quite well), and one for vectors (Affinity Designer). Or go Adobe ( Illustrator and Photoshop).  But you need one of these pairs, yes or yes, IMO. Then , your specific field might recommend using a very adapted tool for an specific task. (Be it CAD, game graphics tools, traditional-like painting, etc). One can pass without (or with occasional needed use) the super specific tools, but not without the "main pair". Or that's my take at it. And the Affinity "pair" is overall really, really good (and with a cheap, perpetual license). Anyone that asks me (and trust me, not here, but in a ton of online and offline scenarios, I get asked about tools a royal lot) gets this answer( I know you didn't ask about it, lol) , that I'd rather use "companion" tools to fill the gaps left or not so well covered by Affinity, than opt for "hoping" to find a perfect tool doing everything perfect, or willing to find exact clones of PS and AI. 
 

Edited by SrPx
the post was very rushed, completing now sentences, fixing typos etc.

Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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13 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

The tablet is very good,

I agree. I've known from too many reliable sources, and friends,  reviews, etc feedback from it, have seen it in action. Still, until I having one with me, I wont be able to tell about color calibration (after calibrated the color by hardware). I have clues from sources that once hardware (with i1Display, colormunki or etc) calibrated is fine.  It is also the BEST quality/price deal in the market. Just as their Deco 03 and Deco Pro (new) is the classic tablets. U can't get any better for that money, and it accomplishes the mission greatly (costing half of the Wacom equivalent, they're still a bit  bigger in active area!).

14 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

it's like it's overtly sensitive to movement and what you end up with are nodes with handles pointing in random directions

A number of years ago I pointed very much this.  I made screenshots and videos about it (still have them in a folder, lol), and they did reply about it very kindly, as always do (I mean, I can't have any complaint about it). I can report it while having a Wacom, so... is not XP-Pen related issues. But with Affinity Photo (specially with stabilizer on, window mode, low value, and "tablet precision experimental" preferences setting on) you can ink very well, if vector output is not needed. 

So... I just opted to be practical and use the app for what does well for me.  :) Anyway, since always I've liked the "having several tools, and use the best for each use case" philosophy, so, all in all, good for me. One only needs to get own's game in import/export to the maximum level possible, get used to converters and stuff, and this gives a lot of freedom, this way you end up using the software which is more pleasant and complete for every task, playing a kind of orchestra (with the best music professionals for each type of sound) as you proceed through your projects.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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My workflow is a secret I am willing to share :-)

I would like to use Designer to create schematic illustrations. i mostly use combinations of simple shapes, lines and text with mouse and keyboard. Sometimes I need pressure sensitivity to add organic shapes like tree branches or blood vessels.

From your replies I get that drawing with a tablet pen just does not work that well in Affinity Designer, it is probably not a specific xp-pen problem and there is nothing that can be done about it right now. Individual strokes can be fixed by adjusting the pressure profile.

THanks for your replies!

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@SrPx I have Flame Painter from Escape motion and have looked at Rebelle, I have Art Rage but haven't had time to use it. Expresii looks very nice, shame it's a Windows only app. 


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo & Publisher - Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - FeedbackInstagram & Flickr

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3 hours ago, SusanneB said:

Individual strokes can be fixed by adjusting the pressure profile.

Not saying that would be better,  but another useful  method would be :  You can actually paint with the pencil tool, and a round basic brush (in the "basic" brush library),  or directly with the pen tool, node by node, to avoid fancy textured or just irregular brushes here, as can add variations or artifacts, fully all your lines with a boring round basic, no thickness variation brush (so you avoid the undesired randomness), using so a brush from the "basic" brush library, then once all your lines, your drawing is done, you select all layers, all strokes, and could hit "expand stroke", hit "add" to merge all into one vector shape/layer  (well, this part is how has been repeated through this thread), then refine the contours of that shape (that is not the initial pencil/brush stroke anymore), the borders of a shape that the lines are now,  using for example the node tool. The more simplified it is , the easier (so, the dot by dot with the Affinity Designer's PEN,  and long curves technique, much preferred)   would be then to redefine thickness and line weights, line expressiveness and personality, even while is not actually someone "painting directly" in real time to produce those expressions in the lines). One of the reasons why I would prefer to do it with the pen tool , dot by dot, as also then is way less dots (nodes), and so, easier to edit and refine in this way which I mentioned. This way you can add more weight to certain curves, do real brush ink-like lines, etc. WAY longer and more tedious to do than inking directly (in Designer), but might be the most accurate way to get the exact feel and lines that you are after. I wouldn't do that for one of my comics with a bunch of panels to draw and ink, but would certainly do so for a one-off important vector illustration.    When you want a supreme control over the lines, IMO this trick is the way to go, in Designer (as I say, not a method for massive and fast work).

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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Hi All!

I am having a similar, if not exactly the same- problem with my XP-Pen Deco 06.
It seems to be since the last update from Designer and Publisher (on a computer) and is the same before and after the XP pen driver update (there is one every other day it seems)
No problem whatsoever on any other software/apps (adobe, Inkscape). Not 100% sure it came after the AD update though (I use the software sporadically, I am just assuming it would have bugged me big time if it happened before)

 

See the video for the problem. Sometimes the path "jumps" creating a new layer/path every time a new node is created, leaving a blank where there should be a connection.

I tried different settings, to no avail. Note that it's happening only for th pen tool, vector brush and pencil tool working as intended.

 

Maybe this is a setting issue, but I don't understand why I didn't have it before.

 

 


Windows 10
XP pen graphic tablet

Datacolor Spyder 4

Affinity Designer/Affinity Publisher/Adobe Photoshop & Lightroom/Inkscape

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