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John Gibson

Serifs approach to development (split)

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9 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

The purpose of that introduce yourself thread is to make customers (mainly newbies) to feel comfortable enough to introduce themselves without judgement.

To be honest John, I chose to split this off because I wanted it to have more visibility rather than less and give the discussion air to breathe. Nobody petitioned anyone that I saw, and I think none of this belongs in an introduce yourself thread.

All good Patrick, I quite agree with your point and your choice, which I respect and appreciate.

Of course that doesn't go to Jim's motives, though, whose comments have made me laugh. I do admit to reading into his 'thank-you' to your splitting post a bit more than is actually the case which I appreciate you pointing out.

I'm sure you could understand how I came to that conclusion given Jim's most recent post, as I was prepared to let all of that slide having already responded to the substance of Jim's previous post. 

Out of respect for all concerned I will edit my reply to Jim's last post to remove the factually incorrect content, as I now understand Jim did not petition or go running of to the moderator to have this post split off, but still he was thankful that you did ;) 

No hard feelings Jim!

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To all current Affinity users I posit the following questions:

QUESTION 1: How much you would be willing to pay a year (updates, service & support) for Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher beyond its current perpetual price of AUD$165 (assuming Publisher is also about AUD$55 when its stable) and how much would you pay per year for an Affinity version of Adobe CC with 20 software products?

QUESTION 2: Would you like Serif to create a suite of superb products as a one-stop shop for your creative authoring needs?

QUESTION 3: Would you be prepared to pay $250, $500, $1,000 or more as part of a crowd-funding, capital-raising venture for Serif in return for one time (perpetual) license and/or part-ownership of all of their soon to be developed products? How much would you pay and what would you want in return?

QUESTION 4: Would you buy Serif shares if they floated on the stock exchange?

QUESTION 5: What would you add to the current Serif products in terms of features? What other software products would you like Serif to create if they had unlimited resources?

Please reply by copying and pasting the following answer format into your post, if you care to:

ANSWER 1: Answer here please   

ANSWER 2: Answer here please

ANSWER 3: Answer here please

ANSWER 4: Answer here please

ANSWER 5: Answer here please

I hope to challenge the Serif community by asking these questions above, as potential market research for Serif, largely out of my own interest, as I have no affiliation with Serif in any way.

Thank you all in advance.

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On 11/25/2018 at 3:48 AM, Patrick Connor said:

Serif have always welcomed constructive criticism. I simply ask everyone to express it civilly. Our corporate team already have some larger companies who prefer to have a perpetual license model as has been described in interviews by our MD Ash Hewson. That is why we encourage multi-licence customer to contact that team as many companies do not wish to simply buy X licences as a one off and want an ongoing relationship with us

Patrick, could you please post links to any of these interviews? I would be interested to read/watch them, thanks in advance.

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There's one recent one here . I've not listened to all of it yet (over 1 hour) but I'm fairly sure it does not mention subscription for corp/education. I will see if anyone can find the one I'm thinking of.

Written one here

Quote

At present revenue growth is almost entirely from new users, though Hewson says at some point there will need to be a chargeable upgrade path to maintain income. 

 


Patrick Connor
Serif (Europe) Ltd.

Latest releases on each platform 

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1 hour ago, John Gibson said:

QUESTION 1: How much you would be willing to pay a year (updates, service & support) for Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher beyond its current perpetual price of AUD$165 (assuming Publisher is also about AUD$55 when its stable) and how much would you pay per year for an Affinity version of Adobe CC with 20 software products?

  • I will upgrade if the features are attractive and essential. I do not support perpetual license.
  • I do not see the need to use 20 software, Adobe is playing the greed "tricks" on her users, and on the other hand, Adobe shifted her software development to India for more profits, resulting in poor quality stuff. (I am not against Indians)

Quote

" Unlike some developers, Serif doesn’t outsource coding work to developers in low-cost countries. “We’re proud that we’re entirely UK based, but from a development perspective it is one of our challenges,” Hewson admits. “We’re in Nottingham but no matter where we were in the UK that’s always going to be the same issue, finding really good people who have a level of experience in writing creativity apps.” 

unquote

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I'll humor you to make it at least worth your while,since you have put so much time and effort in to this.

You posted in,and might I say, an elaborate way your opinions with a lot of flimflam around it.
The things you say may come true in an ideal world,which may never be though.
I'll share you my points and you will accept them as my opinions and you don't try to convert me to your view.
I think this demand should apply to any other member willing to answer your questions.
In other words,you had your say,now it's time to listen.

I know the forum isn't democratic and this may not reflect the ideas of Serif and its future.
But it might just be of interest to them as well.



QUESTION 1: How much you would be willing to pay a year (updates, service & support) for Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher beyond its current perpetual price of AUD$165 (assuming Publisher is also about AUD$55 when its stable) and how much would you pay per year for an Affinity version of Adobe CC with 20 software products?

QUESTION 2: Would you like Serif to create a suite of superb products as a one-stop shop for your creative authoring needs?

QUESTION 3: Would you be prepared to pay $250, $500, $1,000 or more as part of a crowd-funding, capital-raising venture for Serif in return for one time (perpetual) license and/or part-ownership of all of their soon to be developed products? How much would you pay and what would you want in return?

QUESTION 4: Would you buy Serif shares if they floated on the stock exchange?

QUESTION 5: What would you add to the current Serif products in terms of features? What other software products would you like Serif to create if they had unlimited resources?

Please reply by copying and pasting the following answer format into your post, if you care to:

ANSWER 1: Not more than each separate product at 200,- (one time buy,upgrading at personal will,at an upgrade discount offer with no restrictions)

ANSWER 2: Let's have Serif stick to the things they do best,It would only mean yet another dependency and see answer #5

ANSWER 3: A small crowdfunding may be an option as long as the company stays private.

ANSWER 4: No, if this means other people have a saying in the direction of the company and want to cash in when a bigger deal comes along.

ANSWER 5: More diverse products don't mean better products.

 


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Win10(1903)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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@gbjack 

Quote

 

Have anyone used the latest latest version of Illustrator? You will know what I mean.

All I am pointing out here is that Adobe is producing buggy programming in the last few versions. The group of engineers on the screenshots should felt ashamed ofthemselves.

 

Ehm....I don't actually agree with all that. Look, I have deeply trialed both AI and PS in its latest versions, and they are definitely actual jewels. Yes, quite resource hungry and loading (at least in Windows)  a lot of extra TSR processes (there are ways to get that 100% under control, tho. But I bet only a 0.01% of "digital population" knows how, lol) removing resources, memory, etc. All of that, with a lot of crazy-geek-level fine tuning can be put under control, and get reasonable, functional performance even in a dinosaur machine like mine (in the signature down below). Heck, even with GPU acceleration off, getting smooth brush painting in huge canvases, while being totally stuck in a raw fresh install ( I took it as a crazy challenge). They were stable in a many hours intensive set of tests in my experience. They are technology leaders, not just market leaders (even if abusing the monopoly status). The price for the entire cloud suite is VERY cheap, BUT for people really needing ALL those apps. Which I believe wont be the case for a vast number of users. And there's no freaking option for a lot of intermediate situations (the photography plan is nice, tho, but quite insufficient for all kind of use cases). No purchase option provided, together with that. So, it is subtle, but is a monopolistic behavior.

Still, AI is GREAT, I dislike deeply its UI, true that at companies I got very used to it, but IMO, Affinity Designer is much of a better user experience, easier learning curve, and even more functional. You can want to have a richer feature set (comes with time!!), but Affinity apps are extremely young, while Photoshop I believe is from 1988. 

With all respect, I don't agree in any bit those statements about the programmers. First of all, if anything, programmers are typically fully following orders.  It's a really hard job, not your  (not meaning "you") every day boring and easy 9 to 5 job, I expect this kind of activity needing as much of passion and sacrifice being forced ingredients as we 2D/3D artists, designers and illustrators need to put to do our work. Is not like they love to have this or that bug in their code. That goes against their core passion, at least the ones I have personally known. Is more likely these apps are at this point (Adobe's) behemoths, really monster applications, with tons of implications in every chunk of code, many stuff to support, many things interrelated like a delicate cards castle, and chaos intervene more the more factors are in play, towards error possibilities. That said, in my experience, both old (there were some very unfortunate versions, decades ago, btw, another argument to be patient with Affinity NOW) Adobe versions, as current ones, are pretty solid an stable. So, to anyone having a bunch of crashes, be it with Adobe, or Affinity, I can almost guarantee that in a large number of cases is an issue of the OS, or a driver, or etc. It may not appear in other apps usage, but is maybe as not the same graphic libraries, or drivers, are called, for example.  IF having one particular rare bug, and only that, the user might have caught a real something that would be of major interest to know by Affinity team: These are (2009?) extremely young applications, which did seem to be born from one OS and then have been painfully ported to another 2 platforms, so is more than expected to have a rough beginning, all software I have known have suffered from this (or way, way worse) in the first years, some even almost 2 decades.

So...sorry, while I share the enthusiasm for Affinity apps, I wouldn't share a negative vision about Adobe apps, in technical aspects (and way less, feel so about its programmers). They are pretty good, and their coders have my entire admiration (I admire ANY coder, as I've only been able to code a bit in Python and VB code, lol.... ). Also, posting the names (in a negative vibe), is a bit... I dunno... Not my style, that's for very certain.

@John Gibson

Finding way more points in common, now in your latest posts. Which is quite an increase , from almost zero  ;) . Anyway, I tend to prefer (lately, in general) to focus on the points in common, you know, is hard to get a car moving if each one is pushing in the opposite direction...

2 hours ago, John Gibson said:

a product like Freehand or more recently Edge Animate only to find your files are made redundant over time, the time you invested in workflow and product knowledge development goes out the window, and you get more or less put back to square one from time to time

Yep, agreeing. Freehand was such a joy. I'd add as well Muse (very recently, and the main "business engine" for a girl very friend of mine, she got really mad. But I told her to better learn web coding, even the day she started learning Muse...) , Fireworks being abandoned, and strange strategy with other products, too. But miles away from what I have seen done by Autodesk...(ie, the company acquiring XSI and then making it disappear. I had purchased a version, it was...painful. is not 50 bucks, you know...) Or...outside these two, Deep Paint 3D got abandoned (+2k euros due to crazy shipping and other matters), and a few some more... Relearning constantly. So much, than in 3D I decided, at least for personal projects,which later on became kind of my job, would use open source. So I migrated to Blender. Is way harder but is in a point where "certain" gigs can be done totally in a professional way. Not everything, but a freelancer can choose which gigs to take (if he/she is any good).

I mean... I've come to this mindset: One is to corner one all the time in IT, computer stuff, graphics creation. In coding, way more. Even simple stuff like web coding languages need to be re-learnt every 2-3 years, besides being in absolute constant skills and knowledge updated, in a "every-week" basis. It has become natural, I expect some form of this in every front, every app, every industry I touch. It is so, is gonna keep being so, IMO.... Comes well to the debate, as a lot of ppl complaining really is willing to find the exact same workflow in AD or AP as they had in AI and PS. While probably they did not pretended to expect so when switching to Corel or Xara. For some reason, some people expect Affinity to be their cheaper Adobe clone/solution, and "only" that. I've been convinced that is not the case. The sooner we realize that, and get flexible to learn an entire new thing, -despite it keeps some UI standard fundamentals-  the happier path we will have in front of us with these applications. Things like the issue with the mask, from....er....that user... and a ton of other complaints, really reflect close to zero of these are willing to go further and investigate HOW would I do this with this new app, to build my very own workflows. Which we did in the past, but the big top dogs (not just Adobe) have made lazy brains for some... I LOVE digging really hard UIs, like they were in its day at first contact (IMO, not anymore with their current improvements) Blender, Inkscape and Gimp. Besides, those are much more capable than a lot of people think.

All my point is... yeah, it $ucks, but we need to adapt to a very changing environment, learn faster too. Is very hard to do, heck, I know...The luck with Affinity is that it has an extremely smooth  learning curve. IMO, one of the keys to its success.

2 hours ago, John Gibson said:

, as Serif has come closer than any other vendor that I've seen to actually having the technical and product development wherewithal to give Adobe a run for their money,

Here I diverge. Corel (Corel Draw, Photopaint, etc)  has been many years at total pro level, specially for certain industry sectors....Even if not for every possible use and industry, as Adobe has accomplished. But there are a bunch of very critical things done even better in Corel than Adobe. And it has a subscription model, but not forced, you can purchase the entire suite. And while I think the perpetual licence price is fair, not so great for many pockets. Or deeper pockets but not willing to justify certain kind of money for a type of tool that they find cheaper and very capable (or free, if one is a weirdo freaky geek like me) somewhere else. (a lot of people could do very well with Xara).

2 hours ago, John Gibson said:

QUESTION 1: How much you would be willing to pay a year (updates, service & support) for Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher beyond its current perpetual price of AUD$165 (assuming Publisher is also about AUD$55 when its stable) and how much would you pay per year for an Affinity version of Adobe CC with 20 software products?

2 hours ago, John Gibson said:

QUESTION 2: Would you like Serif to create a suite of superb products as a one-stop shop for your creative authoring needs?

2 hours ago, John Gibson said:

QUESTION 3: Would you be prepared to pay $250, $500, $1,000 or more as part of a crowd-funding, capital-raising venture for Serif in return for one time (perpetual) license and/or part-ownership of all of their soon to be developed products? How much would you pay and what would you want in return?

2 hours ago, John Gibson said:

QUESTION 4: Would you buy Serif shares if they floated on the stock exchange?

2 hours ago, John Gibson said:

QUESTION 5: What would you add to the current Serif products in terms of features? What other software products would you like Serif to create if they had unlimited resources?

ANSWER 1 : I never would be interested in the 20 apps. Not even half of them, surely only 3 or 4 (if anything!). As I love other third party alternatives of very different nature. For the existing 3 apps ( and I have ZERO desire in Serif doing any more apps than these 3), well, it'd depend. I'm putting the example as some other freelancers might be in the case. If I keep having certain freelancing workload (moving to a company, I doubt will be the case) , maybe the 3 per year. In reality, more likely as much one or 2 per year (I'm not much into publishing, editing projects), and if really needed. Surely would update no matter what, each app, after 3 years of having purchased each app. If any forced subscription or forced update (disallowing my use of my old version somehow) would show up, I'd fly away, very, very far.

ANSWER 2 : Nope. Absolutely not. By any means. I'm even against that. I prefer focused attention to do jewels. Also, as I am versatile with a bunch of existing alternatives ( and many more that I'm sure will appear from existing and new companies), having as well purchased some, and using free software.

ANSWER 3 : Not really.... maybe 20 years ago, I would have. No point now. The entire environment has evolved crazily. Is not Adobe alone anymore. There are very good alternatives for every type of tool, in the mid cost (50 - 800 . Even some in the "low cost" (my own definition) range, under 50 ) and open source. Also, I trust Serif, besides is totally their business and their call.

ANSWER 4 : Nope. I had my "share" (sorry the pun) of that,  small experiences with that sort of thing with other companies, not into that, ever, definitely.

ANSWER 5 : What they have already in their plans, of the little I know of, what I have read, makes quite sense. And I completely trust their criteria to make the best for their apps. Besides is , by all means, their call. But being asked, I would love a ton of love for the brush and color picker systems (like if it wasn't known already, lol) and maybe after that, other painting related features, but that last bit would be non crucial.  No such thing as unlimited ... I know you mean, huge resources... Considering it getting unlimited resources sounds to me as planning what Christmas decoration shall I put in my new condo in Mars... But ok, let's play... Maybe a ....nope. Really, even thinking hard... there's already a gorgeous alternatives from other brands in most everything I would ever use (and I am as multi profile as one can get in graphics...)...They did hit the target with these 3. At that competitive price, there were no clear options for vectors, overall raster editing, and in publishing... I know way less of that latest type of tool, but does not seem is crowded with cheap yet great solutions. My hopes are 100% more in the line of getting more and more polishing on existing features, maybe adding some more new ones (for me this is secondary), but all about the 3 existing apps.  It completes a perfect puzzle with other brands' alternatives for other needs in graphic content creations. We needed these 3, precisely, and now need these 3 to excel and keep competing, IMO.

2 hours ago, John Gibson said:

As far as English being your second language, you're doing a pretty good job as far as I can tell, so good luck to you!

Thank you !  :D  Also, we have around an English ninja around, whenever sth is wrong, he does a Capoeira kick and fixes it....  ( Am I right, @Alfred ? :D   )

2 hours ago, John Gibson said:

My point about subscription and Serif was just to say that if Serif wants to better compete, in general and with Adobe specifically, then they will need more capital to do it and they will need greater revenues too, as cash flow is king.

I trust more the powers that be behind Serif,  as well as the developers, all that bunch, in their criteria. This is one of the points we are farther away in these posts. But as mentioned by now both of us, no big deal in that being so....

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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15 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Also, we have around an English ninja around, whenever sth is wrong, he does a Capoeira kick and fixes it....  ( Am I right, @Alfred ? :D   )

Who, me?? :o innocent.gif


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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Yes... !

Don't be humble.....I have seen you in action, fixing grammar disasters.....  :D  :

Alfred in action.

 

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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6 minutes ago, SrPx said:

Yes... !

Don't be humble.....I have seen you in action, fixing grammar disasters.....  :D  :

No! pointing out issues does not mean you have seen @Alfred fixing anything. Only Serif staff have any moderation rights here.


Patrick Connor
Serif (Europe) Ltd.

Latest releases on each platform 

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Yep, I didn't mean directly editing those, of course....

Just enlightening us...

Edit:    Oh..that was British humor again... I'm always too slow for that....


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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I hope Alfred doesn't mind you're calling him English ;)


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Win10(1903)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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Ouch, I meant English grammar ninja.... 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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1 hour ago, haakoo said:

I hope Alfred doesn't mind you're calling him English ;)

Why should I mind? I am English! (I just happen to have lived in Scotland for most of my life.)


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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While I posted that I knew that would be the answer :D
Nam biodh tu nad neach-scàlaidh fìor dh 'fhaodadh tu a bhith nas duilghe a bhith a' tomhas


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Win10(1903)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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3 hours ago, haakoo said:

Nam biodh tu nad neach-scàlaidh fìor dh 'fhaodadh tu a bhith nas duilghe a bhith a' tomhas

Oh, and I don’t speak Gaelic! That’s mostly a ‘Highlands and Islands’ thing. :)


Alfred online2long.gif
Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher 1.7.3.481 • Windows 10 Home (4th gen Core i3 CPU)
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.7.3.155 • Designer for iPad 1.7.3.1 • iOS 12.4.1 (iPad Air 2)

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10 hours ago, John Gibson said:

Patrick, could you please post links to any of these interviews? I would be interested to read/watch them, thanks in advance.

Do you actually use Affinity products and, if so, which ones?


Win 10 x64 System with Intuos Pen & Touch
 - Sys : Intel® Core™ i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz (8 CPUs), 16GB RAM
 - GPU 1: Intel HD Graphics 630, GPU 2: NVIDIA GTX1050, 4GB

 

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9 hours ago, gbjack said:
  • I will upgrade if the features are attractive and essential. I do not support perpetual license.
  • I do not see the need to use 20 software, Adobe is playing the greed "tricks" on her users, and on the other hand, Adobe shifted her software development to India for more profits, resulting in poor quality stuff. (I am not against Indians)

Quote

" Unlike some developers, Serif doesn’t outsource coding work to developers in low-cost countries. “We’re proud that we’re entirely UK based, but from a development perspective it is one of our challenges,” Hewson admits. “We’re in Nottingham but no matter where we were in the UK that’s always going to be the same issue, finding really good people who have a level of experience in writing creativity apps.” 

unquote

 

To your first point, that you do not support perpetual licensing, I take it you agree that Serif will have to move to a more cash flow friendly pricing regime in time, to better facilitate their service, support, upgrades and new product development? If so, what do you think is a fair annual price for service, support and upgrades - AUD$165 per annum, or do you have another amount in mind?

To your second point, perhaps I should clarify the question to include a Serif Software suite that includes:

  1. Illustration (Designer);
  2. Photo manipulation (Photo);
  3. Page layout (Publisher);
  4. Photo service (eg. Lightroom - I am unsure about this one, as I did read about something similar available from Serif but I can't seem to find it now)
  5. Web design (eg. Dreamweaver) 
  6. Video editing (eg. Premier Pro)
  7. Video effects (eg. After effects)
  8. Document editing and execution (eg. Acrobat)
  9. Cloud Based Asset Storage (eg. Bridge)
  10. Animation (eg. Animate/Character Animator)
  11. Audio (eg. Audition)
  12. 3D Mockups (eg. Dimensions)
  13. Copywriting (eg. InCopy)
  14. 3D Compositions (eg. Blender)
  15. Gaming (eg. Unity 3D/Unreal)

These last two items, 3D compositions and Gaming may well happen as a result of partnering or acquisition, but still the current alternatives Blender and Unity 3D?Unreal are bloatware with increasingly complex UI and UX which could be disrupted by a philosophy to development such as that held by Serif.

I admit there is only 15 products here rather than 20, so I'll edit my original post to reflect this explicitly.

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5 hours ago, SrPx said:

@gbjack 

Ehm....I don't actually agree with all that. Look, I have deeply trialed both AI and PS in its latest versions, and they are definitely actual jewels. Yes, quite resource hungry and loading (at least in Windows)  a lot of extra TSR processes (there are ways to get that 100% under control, tho. But I bet only a 0.01% of "digital population" knows how, lol) removing resources, memory, etc. All of that, with a lot of crazy-geek-level fine tuning can be put under control, and get reasonable, functional performance even in a dinosaur machine like mine (in the signature down below). Heck, even with GPU acceleration off, getting smooth brush painting in huge canvases, while being totally stuck in a raw fresh install ( I took it as a crazy challenge). They were stable in a many hours intensive set of tests in my experience. They are technology leaders, not just market leaders (even if abusing the monopoly status). The price for the entire cloud suite is VERY cheap, BUT for people really needing ALL those apps. Which I believe wont be the case for a vast number of users. And there's no freaking option for a lot of intermediate situations (the photography plan is nice, tho, but quite insufficient for all kind of use cases). No purchase option provided, together with that. So, it is subtle, but is a monopolistic behavior.

Still, AI is GREAT, I dislike deeply its UI, true that at companies I got very used to it, but IMO, Affinity Designer is much of a better user experience, easier learning curve, and even more functional. You can want to have a richer feature set (comes with time!!), but Affinity apps are extremely young, while Photoshop I believe is from 1988. 

With all respect, I don't agree in any bit those statements about the programmers. First of all, if anything, programmers are typically fully following orders.  It's a really hard job, not your  (not meaning "you") every day boring and easy 9 to 5 job, I expect this kind of activity needing as much of passion and sacrifice being forced ingredients as we 2D/3D artists, designers and illustrators need to put to do our work. Is not like they love to have this or that bug in their code. That goes against their core passion, at least the ones I have personally known. Is more likely these apps are at this point (Adobe's) behemoths, really monster applications, with tons of implications in every chunk of code, many stuff to support, many things interrelated like a delicate cards castle, and chaos intervene more the more factors are in play, towards error possibilities. That said, in my experience, both old (there were some very unfortunate versions, decades ago, btw, another argument to be patient with Affinity NOW) Adobe versions, as current ones, are pretty solid an stable. So, to anyone having a bunch of crashes, be it with Adobe, or Affinity, I can almost guarantee that in a large number of cases is an issue of the OS, or a driver, or etc. It may not appear in other apps usage, but is maybe as not the same graphic libraries, or drivers, are called, for example.  IF having one particular rare bug, and only that, the user might have caught a real something that would be of major interest to know by Affinity team: These are (2009?) extremely young applications, which did seem to be born from one OS and then have been painfully ported to another 2 platforms, so is more than expected to have a rough beginning, all software I have known have suffered from this (or way, way worse) in the first years, some even almost 2 decades.

So...sorry, while I share the enthusiasm for Affinity apps, I wouldn't share a negative vision about Adobe apps, in technical aspects (and way less, feel so about its programmers). They are pretty good, and their coders have my entire admiration (I admire ANY coder, as I've only been able to code a bit in Python and VB code, lol.... ). Also, posting the names (in a negative vibe), is a bit... I dunno... Not my style, that's for very certain.

I agree with all of your comments here SrPx excluding the last one, as a bit like a movie, I think listing the credits should be mandatory (I wish Governments would do this with all of the contributors to a project so we know who to hold accountable and they can't hide.) and this will either be a good thing (if its a good product) or less than a good thing (if the product is a flop).

 

6 hours ago, SrPx said:

@John Gibson

Finding way more points in common, now in your latest posts. Which is quite an increase , from almost zero  ;) . Anyway, I tend to prefer (lately, in general) to focus on the points in common, you know, is hard to get a car moving if each one is pushing in the opposite direction...

Yep, agreeing. Freehand was such a joy. I'd add as well Muse (very recently, and the main "business engine" for a girl very friend of mine, she got really mad. But I told her to better learn web coding, even the day she started learning Muse...) , Fireworks being abandoned, and strange strategy with other products, too. But miles away from what I have seen done by Autodesk...(ie, the company acquiring XSI and then making it disappear. I had purchased a version, it was...painful. is not 50 bucks, you know...) Or...outside these two, Deep Paint 3D got abandoned (+2k euros due to crazy shipping and other matters), and a few some more... Relearning constantly. So much, than in 3D I decided, at least for personal projects,which later on became kind of my job, would use open source. So I migrated to Blender. Is way harder but is in a point where "certain" gigs can be done totally in a professional way. Not everything, but a freelancer can choose which gigs to take (if he/she is any good).

It's good to acknowledge points in common and to also accede errors as in my mind, this is a mandatory good faith, clean hands requirement if you wish to pursue contrarian debates. While I agree that consensus is a good thing, like focussing on points of agreement without wrestling out disruptive, contrarian views, leads to filter bubbles (like the one climate change deniers occupy) and closed loop echo chambers, which leads to false senses of security being reinforced, when often they should be disrupted.

Though I'm sure we all prefer points in common (I'm no different to you(, to put it in fundamental physics terms using the laws of thermodynamics, you cannot have work without at least some heat, though of course if there is too much heat, the energy left to do the work is reduced proportionally. An efficient car engine will always have some heat, but if it runs over the redline for too long it will be sure to blowup.

I agree with your other software mentions, I forgot (or rather tried to forget until you reminded me) of Fireworks lol. Re Blender, this is definitely a space Serif could lead in with their superior philosophy to UI and UX.

6 hours ago, SrPx said:

I mean... I've come to this mindset: One is to corner one all the time in IT, computer stuff, graphics creation. In coding, way more. Even simple stuff like web coding languages need to be re-learnt every 2-3 years, besides being in absolute constant skills and knowledge updated, in a "every-week" basis. It has become natural, I expect some form of this in every front, every app, every industry I touch. It is so, is gonna keep being so, IMO.... Comes well to the debate, as a lot of ppl complaining really is willing to find the exact same workflow in AD or AP as they had in AI and PS. While probably they did not pretended to expect so when switching to Corel or Xara. For some reason, some people expect Affinity to be their cheaper Adobe clone/solution, and "only" that. I've been convinced that is not the case. The sooner we realize that, and get flexible to learn an entire new thing, -despite it keeps some UI standard fundamentals-  the happier path we will have in front of us with these applications. Things like the issue with the mask, from....er....that user... and a ton of other complaints, really reflect close to zero of these are willing to go further and investigate HOW would I do this with this new app, to build my very own workflows. Which we did in the past, but the big top dogs (not just Adobe) have made lazy brains for some... I LOVE digging really hard UIs, like they were in its day at first contact (IMO, not anymore with their current improvements) Blender, Inkscape and Gimp. Besides, those are much more capable than a lot of people think.

All my point is... yeah, it $ucks, but we need to adapt to a very changing environment, learn faster too. Is very hard to do, heck, I know...The luck with Affinity is that it has an extremely smooth  learning curve. IMO, one of the keys to its success.

I agree re constant learning, noting the obvious limitation to commercial overhead in this regards. As we all know, time is money and network effects are a real thing, hence the QWERTY keyboard, so there is a real limit to the overhead I and prepared to, and can afford to, take on.

Specifically, the workflow barriers you speak of "Things like the issue with the mask, from....er....that user... and a ton of other complaints" can be resolved in two ways in accordance with the rest of your point here:

  1. Where a current workflow can be overcome with a new pathway in the new software, then I think it is incumbent on the new entrant, in this case Serif, to post a solution to each of these workflow issues as they are raised, and/or;
  2. Incorporate the missing function ASAP into the new software to eliminate the gap - ie. in this instance have an "Apply Destructive Workflow" function with a "Destructive History Emulator" or some such solution, which emulates what PS does here to overcome the issue and remove the barrier to entry, which in turn converts another segment of users into Affinity customers.
6 hours ago, SrPx said:

Here I diverge. Corel (Corel Draw, Photopaint, etc)  has been many years at total pro level, specially for certain industry sectors....Even if not for every possible use and industry, as Adobe has accomplished. But there are a bunch of very critical things done even better in Corel than Adobe. And it has a subscription model, but not forced, you can purchase the entire suite. And while I think the perpetual licence price is fair, not so great for many pockets. Or deeper pockets but not willing to justify certain kind of money for a type of tool that they find cheaper and very capable (or free, if one is a weirdo freaky geek like me) somewhere else. (a lot of people could do very well with Xara).

I can't speak to Corel as I had some bad experiences in the early days and never returned. Never tried Photpaint. I will take a look at both of them now though, given your answers and my current review of creative software applications, another reason I have pursued this forum thread.

6 hours ago, SrPx said:

ANSWER 1 : I never would be interested in the 20 apps. Not even half of them, surely only 3 or 4 (if anything!). As I love other third party alternatives of very different nature. For the existing 3 apps ( and I have ZERO desire in Serif doing any more apps than these 3), well, it'd depend. I'm putting the example as some other freelancers might be in the case. If I keep having certain freelancing workload (moving to a company, I doubt will be the case) , maybe the 3 per year. In reality, more likely as much one or 2 per year (I'm not much into publishing, editing projects), and if really needed. Surely would update no matter what, each app, after 3 years of having purchased each app. If any forced subscription or forced update (disallowing my use of my old version somehow) would show up, I'd fly away, very, very far.

ANSWER 2 : Nope. Absolutely not. By any means. I'm even against that. I prefer focused attention to do jewels. Also, as I am versatile with a bunch of existing alternatives ( and many more that I'm sure will appear from existing and new companies), having as well purchased some, and using free software.

ANSWER 3 : Not really.... maybe 20 years ago, I would have. No point now. The entire environment has evolved crazily. Is not Adobe alone anymore. There are very good alternatives for every type of tool, in the mid cost (50 - 800 . Even some in the "low cost" (my own definition) range, under 50 ) and open source. Also, I trust Serif, besides is totally their business and their call.

ANSWER 4 : Nope. I had my "share" (sorry the pun) of that,  small experiences with that sort of thing with other companies, not into that, ever, definitely.

ANSWER 5 : What they have already in their plans, of the little I know of, what I have read, makes quite sense. And I completely trust their criteria to make the best for their apps. Besides is , by all means, their call. But being asked, I would love a ton of love for the brush and color picker systems (like if it wasn't known already, lol) and maybe after that, other painting related features, but that last bit would be non crucial.  No such thing as unlimited ... I know you mean, huge resources... Considering it getting unlimited resources sounds to me as planning what Christmas decoration shall I put in my new condo in Mars... But ok, let's play... Maybe a ....nope. Really, even thinking hard... there's already a gorgeous alternatives from other brands in most everything I would ever use (and I am as multi profile as one can get in graphics...)...They did hit the target with these 3. At that competitive price, there were no clear options for vectors, overall raster editing, and in publishing... I know way less of that latest type of tool, but does not seem is crowded with cheap yet great solutions. My hopes are 100% more in the line of getting more and more polishing on existing features, maybe adding some more new ones (for me this is secondary), but all about the 3 existing apps.  It completes a perfect puzzle with other brands' alternatives for other needs in graphic content creations. We needed these 3, precisely, and now need these 3 to excel and keep competing, IMO.

Re your answer to my questions:

ANSWER 1: I don't agree with the 20 apps answer, but I can also see I have left this open for conjecture, so I will update my question to include:

A Serif Software suite that includes:

  1. Illustration (Designer);
  2. Photo manipulation (Photo);
  3. Page layout (Publisher);
  4. Photo service (eg. Lightroom - I am unsure about this one, as I did read about something similar available from Serif but I can't seem to find it now)
  5. Web design (eg. Dreamweaver) 
  6. Video editing (eg. Premier Pro)
  7. Video effects (eg. After effects)
  8. Document editing and execution (eg. Acrobat)
  9. Cloud Based Asset Storage (eg. Bridge)
  10. Animation (eg. Animate/Character Animator)
  11. Audio (eg. Audition)
  12. 3D Mockups (eg. Dimensions)
  13. Copywriting (eg. InCopy)
  14. 3D Compositions (eg. Blender)
  15. Gaming (eg. Unity 3D/Unreal)

These last two items, 3D compositions and Gaming may well happen as a result of partnering or acquisition, but still the current alternatives Blender and Unity 3D?Unreal are bloatware with increasingly complex UI and UX which could be disrupted by a philosophy to development such as that held by Serif.

I do agree with your point about not forcing an upgrade/update, though there are OS limitations inherent here, like when Apple does a major upgrade OSX for example, but if you didn't want to update you OSX or your Affinity products, I agree, there should be no reason why you are compelled to do so.

ANSWER 2: I see and respect your point and this may well be true in the current growth phase of Affinity, but their current job advertisements tell me that they won't stop at 3 jewels and nor should they IMHO. I think success in this regards is a function of leadership, strategy and management, which should see no limitations to their pursuits if they get this right.

Put another way, if the a-holes at Adobe can get this up through time, there is no reason Serif can't exceed Adobe in less time, with their superior philosophy, by learning many of Adobe's lessons and avoiding much of Adobe's pain points.

ANSWER 3: Fair enough, your choice. I'd be interested in such an offer but I will elucidate more on this at a later date when I get time to do so.

ANSWER 4: As is your right, given investment decisions rest with each of us as investors. Again, my investment here would be contingent on a number of factors which I will borate on further at a later date, though in-principle I'd back Serif with a modest investment, provided their current visionaries stay with the company and have express provisions in their ownership/contract arrangements that they couldn't be booted out by a bunch of number crunchers, which I'm sure they could do by referring to the arrangements Steve Job's forced upon Apple upon his return to their helm.

ANSWER 5: "Considering it getting unlimited resources sounds to me as planning what Christmas decoration shall I put in my new condo in Mars" - Very funny, ROTFLMAO! I agree generally, though I do feel web, video, 3D and gaming are all spaces where a new entrant such as Serif could again overcome legacy issues with a new approach incorporating their philosophy. I think I'll look around the forums and check the other new feature suggestion threads, as I am not intending to replicate those here, rather I'm look for the current 'dealbreakers' that restrict conversion from Adobe. For me, I at least need a robust page layout program, but I would strongly add animation, video editing, effects and audio solutions to these 3 current Affinity products, as I am doing a lot of video these days and it would be great if Designer and Photo could parlay into animation and video as far as workflows and pricing goes, given that Adobe will still hit my wallet as hard for their animation/video offerings, as they do for access to the entire CC suite, so from a commercial studio point of view, this is a real network effects issue IMHO.

I really appreciate your time here SrPx, and your detailed responses. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts in future. Cheers!

 

 

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EDIT: Seems I cross-posted, you were writing at the same time.. will read that now....

Gaming??  :o 

Engine developers have it already pretty hard to develop with completeness a single game engine (and having worked quite at game dev studios, using one of those is often a very weak/limited solution compared to in-house made engines for custom projects, coded by really estelar programmers) . I mean is clearly a type of product you would not include in a large suite.  Blender (is not only 3D composition, it does practically everything in 3D, and even texturing/shading/animating/rendering/video editing, etc, etc. with Grease Pencil, even 2D animating, even while they already had a industry level toon shading rendering with Freestyle) will, almost for sure, never partner with anything commercial, unless the other party ready to go on fully with the strict GNU GPL licensing, and I don't see many (there are instances) commercial closed source companies happy to go that path....

Look, I see sense in what MS has been doing for so many decades -and dominating the world with it- with its Microsoft Office pack, and totally great what open source has there to offer, specially Libre Office. A bunch of softwares kind of targeting a correlated set of tasks. Not stuff going across every possible different industry one can randomly think of. (even while AD/AP and PS/AI can actually be used in a ton of different industries (from medical, to astronomy, fashion, etc... but that's another matter) . I mean, not sure if what you are defining is a suite or the Apple Mac store front at its whole. Just as if all there was from the same company....

Well, in a somewhat serious note, I think that whole list is attacking way too many fronts. One thing is to be too niche, or making just one app for one single platform (ie, Winzip, which BTW, extremely successful and they did only make that, but reigned in Wndows like a Caesar in compressed archives. It goes now by version 23, lol, started all with the zip archiving system back in 1989, MSDOS times, I saw its birth ( anyone around remembers arj files? lol...), the first Windows (way before win 95, and before even Win 3.1) and it has been always strong. Or, as another way more recent example, 3D Coat. Or Zbrush. A full industry standard, now. THE KING. It only has been after many years that they expanded to a pair of other tools, but doing more or less the same stuff than the main one, or parts of it) I sincerely don't see this need of developing every freaking type of application you can run in a machine, and and stamp on it the badge of a 'suite'...

What Serif is doing, instead, totally sensible. Is the pack needed for DTP,  2D graphic design, and anything raster and vector.  Also, the number of target users is massive: photographers, designers, etc... I once -long ago, I recon- checked the volume in business (in big numbers) moved in 2D compared with 3D, and I was shocked. Despite me considering, having long experience in both, that 3D was in the end, looking at it as a whole, more technically complex, and wider to fully master all micro fields there, it totally blow my mind to check and realize the HUGE difference in money moved, size of market of 2D compared to 3D. So.. targeting that market and photography as the main thing, and even only that, makes the heck of a ton of sense.  Meaning, with a vector, a raster editing tools, and now the publishing one, they're good to go for a while... And those are deep matters enough that will take, well, at least half of what took Adobe to achieve in those their current level.

Am not saying the full list is crazy. I see some good points there, as are related, complement well the current suite. Like :

(well, your point 4 makes me think you need a bit more information on the full functionality of Affinity apps. Or just use them more.)

8 Document editing and execution (eg. Acrobat)  If you mean sth like the old Adobe Distiller, yep, I'd agree would be a nice addition. Tho, not sure if that's overlapping quite with AD/AP/Apub current and planned functionality. Seems more compact to me if the needed features PDF related keep being added to those, specially as they have this huge advantage over Adobe and other suites with the common format.

9 Okay, I'd agree, but no need to make it only cloud based. A lot of current target users are not fond of cloud-only handling, particularly. But yeah, and there's a lot of requests for a Bridge like app, an assets browser. As far as I understood, is planned to be done at some point by Serif, might be quite in the future. So, another one in the green list.

I particularly see non convenient to attack the WYSIWYG front. I've worked more than a decade doing  web code, and being a graphic web designer as well, and in this, it's all going coding centered, not the opposite. There's a reason why Muse was closed by Adobe, and why Dreamweaver is not pushed very much, neither Flash (Animate). Also, there are new workflows in the UI/UX land, and as now have a ton more tasks than we old web designers ever had, it has a ton to do with team shared work, continuous integration, team work, working with online tools like webflow, with a huge push with InVision, Sketch , Figma and, perhaps (weaker in the line, imo) Adobe XD. To put those down, and mostly make a buck, extremely, extremely hard. As also, it is all going not the design desktop app way, neither the full page design, but coding chunks and integrating those mostly generated server side, and coordinated by those UI/UX online, team work tools, very hard to defeat.

 


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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11 hours ago, haakoo said:

I'll humor you to make it at least worth your while,since you have put so much time and effort in to this.

Very kind of you haakoo, you're first sentence has got me laughing already, in a good way.

 

11 hours ago, haakoo said:

You posted in,and might I say, an elaborate way your opinions with a lot of flimflam around it.
The things you say may come true in an ideal world,which may never be though.
I'll share you my points and you will accept them as my opinions and you don't try to convert me to your view.
I think this demand should apply to any other member willing to answer your questions.
In other words,you had your say,now it's time to listen.

I know the forum isn't democratic and this may not reflect the ideas of Serif and its future.
But it might just be of interest to them as well.

A lot of flimflam lol.

If you were an Aussie and said these things to me, my automatic reaction would be to say "go f**k yourself" which is actually term of endearment said between Aussie friends, as we seem to enjoy insulting each other in a disagreeable way, with a smile as a manly way of saying "I hear you, but don't get ahead of yourself". We are quite laconic in Australia with a healthy disrespect for authority, so please understand what I say as a friendly response, as I appreciate you answering my questions!

You might enjoy this as an insight into Aussie humour, then again you may not, lol: 

I accept your opinions as yours, and I'm listening, and though I don't seek to "convert" anyone to my opinion (like God at a party lol) I will give you my feedback where I feel it would aid understanding or further the debate, as I would hope you do so also if you choose to.

I trust all of this will assist Serif in some way too.

11 hours ago, haakoo said:

QUESTION 1: How much you would be willing to pay a year (updates, service & support) for Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher beyond its current perpetual price of AUD$165 (assuming Publisher is also about AUD$55 when its stable) and how much would you pay per year for an Affinity version of Adobe CC with 20 software products?

QUESTION 2: Would you like Serif to create a suite of superb products as a one-stop shop for your creative authoring needs?

QUESTION 3: Would you be prepared to pay $250, $500, $1,000 or more as part of a crowd-funding, capital-raising venture for Serif in return for one time (perpetual) license and/or part-ownership of all of their soon to be developed products? How much would you pay and what would you want in return?

QUESTION 4: Would you buy Serif shares if they floated on the stock exchange?

QUESTION 5: What would you add to the current Serif products in terms of features? What other software products would you like Serif to create if they had unlimited resources?

Please reply by copying and pasting the following answer format into your post, if you care to:

ANSWER 1: Not more than each separate product at 200,- (one time buy,upgrading at personal will,at an upgrade discount offer with no restrictions)

ANSWER 2: Let's have Serif stick to the things they do best,It would only mean yet another dependency and see answer #5

ANSWER 3: A small crowdfunding may be an option as long as the company stays private.

ANSWER 4: No, if this means other people have a saying in the direction of the company and want to cash in when a bigger deal comes along.

ANSWER 5: More diverse products don't mean better products.
 

ANSWER 1: When you say 200, what currency are you referring to?

ANSWER 2: I accept your view without further comment, thanks

ANSWER 3: When you say "A small crowdfunding may be an option" I'm curious, what sort of monetary amount do you think would be adequate and for what?  You also say "as long as the company stays private" so I guessing you referring to your next answer #4.

ANSWER 4: I agree that corporations that become public companies have had a typically bad history of shareholder-centricity with earnings and shareholder returns becoming the be all and end all, so I guess this is the issue your referring to? I do note that Steve Jobs had the leverage with Apple to compel them beyond shareholder considerations - do you not think that Serif could do the same by committing publicly to constitution, and a series of contractual arrangements that may in effect, keep their current philosophy front and centre to them becoming a public company as a way of raising capital? If you don't, thats cool, I suppose I do believe there is a way to use legal instruments to insulate corporations from bad behaviour and the ruthlessness of public shareholders, like Jobs did with Apple 2.0, but I may well be wrong.

ANSWER 5: "More diverse products don't mean better products". I agree. I would be of the view that any further product development or diversity should not "rob Peter to pay Paul", so I'm not suggesting bloatware, but that also doesn't mean new features are automatically bad because they're new.

If you wish to progress our discussion, even in a small way, I would welcome it, but if not, I again thank you for your consideration haakoo, cheers!

 

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Some good points you made there ( in the post I hadn't read as cross posting happened, not the one you posted just above...geez, this goes too fast....). Sadly, very tight on time right now, and am afraid wont be able to post more till tomorrow at very late hour....

1 hour ago, John Gibson said:

For me, I at least need a robust page layout program, but I would strongly add animation, video editing, effects and audio solutions to these 3 current Affinity products, as I am doing a lot of video these days and it would be great if Designer and Photo could parlay into animation and video as far as workflows and pricing goes, given that Adobe will still hit my wallet as hard for their animation/video offerings, as they do for access to the entire CC suite, so from a commercial studio point of view, this is a real network effects issue IMHO.

 

If you are managing/owning a commercial studio (in whatever the field(s)) you are probably aware of all the following, but there's always some bit each of us aren't aware of, so, here I go.... :
 

- Animation: I have a HUGE post with links and stuff about it. Well, actually quite more than one. There are so many apps under the 300 bucks line, which are, equal if not better than the old Flash (Animate)  that I don't see a need to get yet another one, but instead, master, or make your employees master, the one, or the ones that integrates best in your workflows and client needs. ( Toon Boom, Cacani, Moho, Animation paper (PAP), Opentonz, etc, etc, etc. For games, maybe more sth like Spine). Toonboon is the king and gets pricey, but there's a variety of product levels and prices, tho. Like in most of these brands.

- Video editing: Davinci Resolve not only counts on a solid video editor (very solid), it gives you a totally free version with  reduced -yet large- resolution allowed in export, and some other limits not stopping even serious indies to make hi quality work. It has also included a compositing solution (Fusion, can get apart, too) that you could use for kind of the functionality of A. After Effects. Then you have Hitfilm ( also quite capable free version available), perhaps in a lower level (video editing and effects, too).  Besides that, for typical simpler commercial videos not so FX heavy, less advanced, rarely will go wrong with Sony Vegas. All these are ~300 (or cheaper) bucks solutions, permanent purchase license. Pretty affordable. There are a long bunch of other affordable tools out there for video editing, even some good ones in the free land.

- Audio: I have needed to clean audio, make basic loops, generate game sounds,  etc, as u know it ends up happening in every small game studio when you are used for everything, from testing, to audio, translations, etc. For my definitely non-pro needs there (but my files ended in pro products, lol), Audacity always was enough. But there are other free or cheap options like Acoustica or Ardour. If doing something pro, you need to go to the big guys, of course. (but mostly, count on some one really pro person in sound FX, music, etc)

There is a literal ton of tools for practically everything. By using a lot of these, I have realized how is not so true that Adobe and Autodesk have the best possible thing ever for this or that field: I mean, for every freaking field, out of the main two/three apps. They totally got it with PS, AI, After Effects (but there are also valid alternatives, IMO, for all those. Specific circumstances will define if one needs Adobe or not (compatibility with clients in native formats, certain feature, etc), Premiere (but same). And some more. 

But for example, back in the time, the UV mapper included (and even some third party expensive set of plugins) in 3DS Max ( the UVW Window) was NO WAY close to the depth and flexibility found in a sort of individual, one man band developer tool called Unwrap 3D (know it and exchanged mails with the author since Lithunwrap times, the precursor freebie). of course, times change, Max evolved a lot, but this still happens with so many things. Even more when you need very specific tasks in your workflow. There's always a tool absolutely shining over anything else, included behemoths top dogs from large companies.

I'm expanding here because you say you have interest on alternatives (ie, you commented interest on Corel, which makes a great work in the area of color separation for printing, to give an example of its huge advantages, and Photopaint is a great helper for an Illustrator finishing works -ie, supports CMYK (not that common, to be supported) there where Corel Painter never did- Still, IMO is no competition for Affinity due to pricing. Specially in an studio needing several seats ) , and so, I guess it might be of interest, but also, to  make my point (arguable, I know) that as time passes, it is increasingly clear that there's now so much variety and competition, that the entire HUGE suite concept (instead of at least a smaller, more theme related and compact "suite" of 3/4 estelar tools) made more sense in the 90s, not so much anymore, where all market workflows has over complicated, tasks are way more deep. Just look at the uber crazy complexity of a single workflow in Allegoritmic Substance Painter or Designer. There's quite a whole complex world in its own embedded there in just two apps. This is no 1995 anymore (for both better and worse). Also, discourages going for it the so well tied the market is by Adobe and Autodesk. IMO, would not be a clever move. But imo the clever path is how Serif is doing, focusing on making a master piece out of each of the 3 most fundamental type of tools for the larger market, 2D. Is more wall of text of my 2c, though.


Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo licenses, Windows 7, i7  860 (2009) 2.8 GHz,  8 GB RAM, GTX 1050 2 GB, HD 7200 RPM.  Wacom Intuos 4 XL.

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5 hours ago, John Gibson said:

ANSWER 1: When you say 200, what currency are you referring to?

ANSWER 2: I accept your view without further comment, thanks

ANSWER 3: When you say "A small crowdfunding may be an option" I'm curious, what sort of monetary amount do you think would be adequate and for what?  You also say "as long as the company stays private" so I guessing you referring to your next answer #4.

ANSWER 4: I agree that corporations that become public companies have had a typically bad history of shareholder-centricity with earnings and shareholder returns becoming the be all and end all, so I guess this is the issue your referring to? I do note that Steve Jobs had the leverage with Apple to compel them beyond shareholder considerations - do you not think that Serif could do the same by committing publicly to constitution, and a series of contractual arrangements that may in effect, keep their current philosophy front and centre to them becoming a public company as a way of raising capital? If you don't, thats cool, I suppose I do believe there is a way to use legal instruments to insulate corporations from bad behaviour and the ruthlessness of public shareholders, like Jobs did with Apple 2.0, but I may well be wrong.

ANSWER 5: "More diverse products don't mean better products". I agree. I would be of the view that any further product development or diversity should not "rob Peter to pay Paul", so I'm not suggesting bloatware, but that also doesn't mean new features are automatically bad because they're new.

#1 Euri,it would mean 600 in total but this would mean the max for three products.
#2 -
#3 The amount may vary and could be a return in a discount of the same proportions if that would bridge a certain period;
by this I mean if they need an extra person in development but the current sales aren't justifying the hiring of one but may be essential to go forward.
And Yes,stay private with no meddling by (external)shareholders.
#4 No,look at recent events like whatsapp,instagram and oculus,they were promised that their view would be respected and it (the promise)went down the tubes shortly after.
#5 The development team should be as lean as possible to have them focus on the development and to have short lines between the other departments.
If one would create more products it would mean more people and management and more miscommunication which leads to frustration,
which lead to less handled development and frustrated users and so on and so on
 


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Win10(1903)Home / Photo / Designer / Publisher & latest (beta) versions

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  19 hours ago, John Gibson said:

Patrick, could you please post links to any of these interviews? I would be interested to read/watch them, thanks in advance.

Do you actually use Affinity products and, if so, which ones?

Wouldn't it be nice to close this topic as it is really pointless, 

>>>>>>>>>>>

Are you reluctant to answer this question?


Win 10 x64 System with Intuos Pen & Touch
 - Sys : Intel® Core™ i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz (8 CPUs), 16GB RAM
 - GPU 1: Intel HD Graphics 630, GPU 2: NVIDIA GTX1050, 4GB

 

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11 hours ago, John Gibson said:

 

To your first point, that you do not support perpetual licensing, I take it you agree that Serif will have to move to a more cash flow friendly pricing regime in time, to better facilitate their service, support, upgrades and new product development? If so, what do you think is a fair annual price for service, support and upgrades - AUD$165 per annum, or do you have another amount in mind?

To your second point, perhaps I should clarify the question to include a Serif Software suite that includes:

  1. Illustration (Designer);
  2. Photo manipulation (Photo);
  3. Page layout (Publisher);
  4. Photo service (eg. Lightroom - I am unsure about this one, as I did read about something similar available from Serif but I can't seem to find it now)
  5. Web design (eg. Dreamweaver) 
  6. Video editing (eg. Premier Pro)
  7. Video effects (eg. After effects)
  8. Document editing and execution (eg. Acrobat)
  9. Cloud Based Asset Storage (eg. Bridge)
  10. Animation (eg. Animate/Character Animator)
  11. Audio (eg. Audition)
  12. 3D Mockups (eg. Dimensions)
  13. Copywriting (eg. InCopy)
  14. 3D Compositions (eg. Blender)
  15. Gaming (eg. Unity 3D/Unreal)

These last two items, 3D compositions and Gaming may well happen as a result of partnering or acquisition, but still the current alternatives Blender and Unity 3D?Unreal are bloatware with increasingly complex UI and UX which could be disrupted by a philosophy to development such as that held by Serif.

I admit there is only 15 products here rather than 20, so I'll edit my original post to reflect this explicitly.

Answer 1 : AUD55 for 1 piece or bundle 3 at AUD150 per year should be good and competitive.

Answer 2: Have an option to sell the bundle like for - graphics, web, video/ animation/ gaming or individually, instead of forcing us to have everything.

 

 

 

 

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