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Square color wheel


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4 hours ago, Johan Crous said:

FlameRat, I do not have Affinity Photo open now. But if you click on the colour tab, on the right, there is an option icon or settings icon. In there, you have 3 or more different choices. If you don't find it, I will send a screengrab later.

That option would have the hue picker as a straight line rather than a circle. If I have to choose between having a circle hue picker and a square saturation-lumination picker, I would choose the circle hue picker (Otherwise it would be a lot harder to pick contrast colors). But the thing is, why should I have to choose between these two?

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I don't understand the benefit you see with a square picker vs a triangle. Can you explain a bit about what it allows?

-- Walt

   Desktop: new:  Windows 11 Home, version 21H2 (22000.613) 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090  (old: 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00GHz, GeForce GTX 970 )
   Laptop:  Windows 10 Home, version 21H2 (19044.1706) 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Affinity Photo 1.10.5 (.1342) and 1.10.5.1342 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.10.5 (.1342) and 1.10.5.1342 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.10.5 (.1342) and 1.10.5.1282 Beta
 iPad Pro M1, 12.9", iPadOS 15.6.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard

  Affinity Photo 1.10.5 (.280) and 1.10.2 (.266) Beta / Affinity Designer 1.10.5 (.21) and 1.10.3 (.19) Beta 

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3 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't understand the benefit you see with a square picker vs a triangle. Can you explain a bit about what it allows?

 

I had the same thought, and therefore the same question. It seems to me that the square is simply a more inefficient variant, where the whole of two edges (top and bottom) give you the same lightness values (maximum at the top and minimum at the bottom) so the saturation value is redundant. 

 

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher for Windows 1.10 • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.10 • Designer for iPad 1.10 • iPadOS 15.6.1 (iPad Air 2)

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2 hours ago, FlameRat said:

That option would have the hue picker as a straight line rather than a circle. If I have to choose between having a circle hue picker and a square saturation-lumination picker, I would choose the circle hue picker (Otherwise it would be a lot harder to pick contrast colors). But the thing is, why should I have to choose between these two?

There is a long shinner option as well if I remember correctly.

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5 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't understand the benefit you see with a square picker vs a triangle. Can you explain a bit about what it allows?

I can't speak for the OP, but the main reason I'm not keen on the colour wheel is that the middle (triangle) spins around.

I would prefer the centre to remain in the same position regardless of hue so I know instantly what's what without thinking.  Having it constantly spin round offers me no benefits, it just annoys me.  Therefore the triangle would be OK if it had an option to remain static in one place so that the bottom left corner was always black, the top left corner was always white and the right corner was always full saturation.  (The current triangle would need to be flipped for this, as black would currently be at the top in the below position).

Static Triangle:
001.png.7ec3ddf13ee95dd102708d45b35aba30.png


As it is I use Boxes in Affinity Photo rather than the colour wheel as it stays static and therefore it's easier for me to think about.  Bottom left corner is black, top left corner is white.  Up increases lightness, down reduces lightness, right increases saturation, left decreases saturation.  As the OP has pointed out though, picking opposite hues is easier with a colour wheel.

Boxes:
002.png.2a8d3f234dd91ddb2ca2128feab8ec51.png


The square I think most people are familiar with though is not the one used in Boxes, but the one below from Clip Studio Paint and Photoshop, where the bottom left corner is black, top left corner is white and the top right corner is full saturation.

Clip Studio Paint:
003.png.7bb2759cc996bca104c82a183a7b2128.png

 

It comes down to personal preference at the end of the day.

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10 minutes ago, Sima said:

As the OP has pointed out though, picking opposite hues is easier with a colour wheel.

 

Since the hues of complementary colours are separated by 180º, you can enter a suitable expression in the H field of the Colour Chooser dialog; i.e. +=180 or -=180 (as appropriate).

 

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Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher for Windows 1.10 • Windows 10 Home/Pro
Affinity Photo for iPad 1.10 • Designer for iPad 1.10 • iPadOS 15.6.1 (iPad Air 2)

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Thanks, @Sima, your square color picker example makes more sense to me than the one shown by the OP.

-- Walt

   Desktop: new:  Windows 11 Home, version 21H2 (22000.613) 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090  (old: 16GB memory, Intel Core i7-6700K @ 4.00GHz, GeForce GTX 970 )
   Laptop:  Windows 10 Home, version 21H2 (19044.1706) 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Affinity Photo 1.10.5 (.1342) and 1.10.5.1342 Beta   / Affinity Designer 1.10.5 (.1342) and 1.10.5.1342 Beta  / Affinity Publisher 1.10.5 (.1342) and 1.10.5.1282 Beta
 iPad Pro M1, 12.9", iPadOS 15.6.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard

  Affinity Photo 1.10.5 (.280) and 1.10.2 (.266) Beta / Affinity Designer 1.10.5 (.21) and 1.10.3 (.19) Beta 

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@Sima Actually I would prefer the one I show, because it makes most sense to me. (The one in CSP you showed is the HSV/HSB picker, which would only make sense if you only do subtractive blending and pretty much no additive blending).

 

The rotation of the triangle is certainly something hard to get used to, but the weird thing about triangle is, in order to desaturate the color for the same amount, you'll have to drag the pointer for different distance if the color doesn't stay the same luminance. So does adjusting the luminance when the saturation doesn't stay the same. (Otherwise the diamond shape picker in Autodesk Sketchbook would be even more suitable. CC: @walt.farrell)

 

The reason I stopped using HSB/HSV is that, it's actually weird to adjust saturation and luminance with it, when doing arts that are using additive blending (aka thinking how the scene would be illuminated rather than as if the scene is being painted on an actual piece of paper). The brightness below mid-point is from bottom to top, but then in order to achieve more brightness, you would have to move the pointer from right to left. And to adjust saturation, you would have to adjust the pointer at a tilted angle, with the angle not being constant. 

 

For the hue circle, one more advantage would be, it's more natural to use if the art piece uses a lot of purple shades, since there's no seam at the purple hue.

 

And yes, these are all just personal preferences, but still matters, as it does affect productivity a bit.

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10 hours ago, Alfred said:

 

I had the same thought, and therefore the same question. It seems to me that the square is simply a more inefficient variant, where the whole of two edges (top and bottom) give you the same lightness values (maximum at the top and minimum at the bottom) so the saturation value is redundant. 

 

It's more that the linearity and consistancy of the picker that matters. And thus, the waste of resolution is really just a minor thing. 

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5 hours ago, Alfred said:

 

Since the hues of complementary colours are separated by 180º, you can enter a suitable expression in the H field of the Colour Chooser dialog; i.e. +=180 or -=180 (as appropriate).

 

Aside from an accurate 180 degree or 120 degree usually won't look that pleasing, it's still inefficient to type in the digits when you can just click on the desired point on the wheel. That field is usually only good for copying values in and out, or if there's no color picker available (say if you are quick-fixing a website's color palette).

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On 1/4/2018 at 4:11 AM, FlameRat said:

Something like this:

5a4d8b68c155e_squarecolorwheel.png.98667212b31f9ed7260af0a3797d6ccb.png

 

It's not a big deal, but to me, this is a bit more handy to use than the triangle one. If this thing could be an option, it would be a great addition to those who prefer it over other color picking methods.

If you stand on the Colour picker as indicater in your quoted pic, go right, just before the x that closes that sub window, there is a drop down menu. Inside you get four different optiopns to choose colour, Wheel, sliders, boxes and Tint.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2018/1/11 at 1:27 AM, Johan Crous said:

If you stand on the Colour picker as indicater in your quoted pic, go right, just before the x that closes that sub window, there is a drop down menu. Inside you get four different optiopns to choose colour, Wheel, sliders, boxes and Tint.

Again, if I could, I would not want to choose between having a circle hue picker and a square S-L picker. Currently you can only have one, but not both, and that's why I post the request in the first place.

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  • 2 years later...

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