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-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
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15 hours ago, DylanGG said:

Serif, can we please get a response to this issue. Not just the typical "This isn't a feature, but we'd like to add this later..."

Has this been developed at ALL in the past 5 years? Will we ever see this? Just give us something...

For the Affinity Suite to even be VIABLE professionally in a team, exporting editable text to PSD is a must. I advocate Affinity anytime I speak to my agency, but they're Adobe users of 15+ years - so expecting them to immediately switch isn't realistic. With that being said, the standard isn't going to change - so if Affinity can disrupt the typical Adobe workflow, that's when Affinity could start to overtake the market.

PSD (Photoshop Document) is a file format that was invented by Adobe, initially for their own products. Even it can be read by software from other developers today, there may still be copyrights on parts of the code that impede other software to write PSDs with all of its features. But I'm not sure about that.

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32 minutes ago, iconoclast said:

there may still be copyrights

There might be patents that would interfere, but not copyrights. Still, they might interfere.

The main problem in this area is that the PSD format is not really documented. It is partly documented, and even that documentation is not necessarily accurate. So anyone wanting to implement compatibility with that file format needs to experiment and figure out how some aspects really work.

With that experimentation there is the risk of getting something slightly incorrect. There is also the risk that as Adobe continues developing their products, they will make changes (also undocumented) that will need to be rediscovered by more experimentation.

So far, I think, Serif has not wanted to do that experimentation, and assume the risks associated with providing that support (risk of getting it wrong, need for continued future experimentation).

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.3

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7 hours ago, iconoclast said:

PSD (Photoshop Document) is a file format that was invented by Adobe, initially for their own products. Even it can be read by software from other developers today, there may still be copyrights on parts of the code that impede other software to write PSDs with all of its features. But I'm not sure about that.

Ok, if that is true… then explain why Pixelmator and Pixelmator Pro, Acorn from Flyingmeat and others can export editable PSD files? Since day one they has been able to let you open and save Adobe files without any issue. 

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40 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

Ok, if that is true… then explain why Pixelmator and Pixelmator Pro, Acorn from Flyingmeat and others can export editable PSD files? Since day one they has been able to let you open and save Adobe files without any issue. 

Perhaps they invested the time in figuring out how editable Text layers work in PSD files, even though it's not (or only partly) documented.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.3

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35 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Perhaps they invested the time in figuring out how editable Text layers work in PSD files, even though it's not (or only partly) documented.

That doesn’t speak well of Serif IMHO. 

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2 hours ago, albertkinng said:

Ok, if that is true… then explain why Pixelmator and Pixelmator Pro, Acorn from Flyingmeat and others can export editable PSD files?

Do any of these apps export 100% of their own text features to the PSD files they create?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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Maybe Adobe is supporting Serif economically with the promise of not be able to compete? I mean, after Affinity Suite Apps Adobe implemented all updates that are directly copies of Affinity and really bad implemented. Coincidence?

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As far as I know, it's a general problem with file types that have been developed by Adobe. As far as I remember for example Photoshop was able to create TIFF files with transparencies and layers already many years ago, while other apps couldn't. Also TIFF is a file format that was invented by Adobe. Quite similar the PDF format, which has still some different features in InDesign, if I'm on current state.

The PSD (PhotoShop Document) was initially a kind of home brand format of Photoshop. Like nearly every software has its own file format to be able to save your unfinished work - in Affinity Photo it is *.afphoto, in GIMP it is *.xcf, in PhotoImpact it was *.ufo, as far as I remember... - in Photoshop it is the *.psd. Adobe is still the global market leader in image editing and graphics software, so the accessibility of their file types may be important even for them. But they are still in competition with other companies and may not be very motivated in supporting their competitors without payback.

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17 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Perhaps they invested the time in figuring out how editable Text layers work in PSD files, even though it's not (or only partly) documented.

According to the Pixelmator web site Walt is correct. https://www.pixelmator.com/blog/2021/08/19/pixelmator-pro-2-1-3-brings-huge-improvements-to-psd-support/.

For those who don't want to follow the link, they basically spent about a year working on a newer version of their PSD code. One snippet which stands out to me is this: 'we dived really deep into the PSD format itself and have a much better understanding of it, with some fantastic internal documentation' (my emphasis). In other words they had to do some reverse engineering of the PSD file format, and the Adobe documentation does not cover everything (as Walt wrote).

 

 

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2 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

For those who don't want to follow the link, they basically spent about a year working on a newer version of their PSD code.

They also said that they were not done yet, implying that there was still something lacking in their PSD engine.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V23.0 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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9 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

According to the Pixelmator web site Walt is correct. https://www.pixelmator.com/blog/2021/08/19/pixelmator-pro-2-1-3-brings-huge-improvements-to-psd-support/.

For those who don't want to follow the link, they basically spent about a year working on a newer version of their PSD code. One snippet which stands out to me is this: 'we dived really deep into the PSD format itself and have a much better understanding of it, with some fantastic internal documentation' (my emphasis). In other words they had to do some reverse engineering of the PSD file format, and the Adobe documentation does not cover everything (as Walt wrote).

 

 

Anyway, forget about the extras. Just let us save in editable text and let us figure it out the other issues. Seriously, just by letting us save editable PSD you are helping thousands of users. Just add a pop up saying “the effects and styles can’t be saved in editable mode” and I will be happy. I just need my clients can change text!

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11 hours ago, albertkinng said:

Anyway, forget about the extras. Just let us save in editable text and let us figure it out the other issues. Seriously, just by letting us save editable PSD you are helping thousands of users. Just add a pop up saying “the effects and styles can’t be saved in editable mode” and I will be happy. I just need my clients can change text!

That might be a reasonable compromise, but this is the Questions forum, and not the place where Serif will look for improvement requests. You might want to make that suggestion in Feature Requests & Suggestions, where they look for ideas.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.3

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