Can Vector brushes be vector brushes?

[albertkinng]

It's disheartening how some people here no longer find Affinity sufficient. The accumulation of "facts" since the 1980s seems somewhat unjust towards a company that doesn't owe us anything. While we may dream of certain features, their absence doesn't mean the software is outdated or inadequate. I wish you could have experienced the growth of these design apps as I did. I used Freehand 8 and Photoshop 5.5, and I can assure you that Affinity VERSION 2 is significantly more advanced and powerful than those older versions when they were at version 8 and version 5.5. As users, we shouldn't judge based solely on our desires but rather on how well the app currently functions. By doing so, we can contribute to its future improvement..

[Boldlinedesign]

1 hour ago, albertkinng said:

It's disheartening how some people here no longer find Affinity sufficient. The accumulation of "facts" since the 1980s seems somewhat unjust towards a company that doesn't owe us anything. While we may dream of certain features, their absence doesn't mean the software is outdated or inadequate. I wish you could have experienced the growth of these design apps as I did. I used Freehand 8 and Photoshop 5.5, and I can assure you that Affinity VERSION 2 is significantly more advanced and powerful than those older versions when they were at version 8 and version 5.5. As users, we shouldn't judge based solely on our desires but rather on how well the app currently functions. By doing so, we can contribute to its future improvement..

I tried to use affinity as a replacement for illustrator when they went to SaaS and really wanted it to be the answer. Tools I've come to rely on and find standard were not and some are still not available. For the type of work I do designing t-shirts, features like text warp, flood fill, Boolean operations that can destructively merge down a final design for export, etc are what I'm used to having for my work to flow smoothly in illustrator. Yes I could warp text in photo by hand and trace back into designer, but why? There are other programs that can handle that. it's true that super old versions of the adobe apps and others lacked many functions, they were also not known or available in other programs at that time. Affinity today had the advantage to see all the great innovative progress made over the treats past and create their own version of said tools quickly.  

It was good to see the 2.0 get released and the 2.1 updates are solid. Those who only need the smaller number of tools affinity designer offers are lucky in that they want for nothing. Those who rely on vector brushes, better Boolean operations, etc, advices like Vectorstyler fill the gap and man I'm not held hostage to adobe while waiting on affinity

[firstdefence]

You are never going to find a full compliment of tools in one app, even if you have a feature in your main app, another app will do it better, so it's always going to be a multi-app workflow. I can create spirals; of a kind, in Affinty apps but inkscape and vector styler can do it so easily, Vectorstyler can do full vector brushes as in this file...  Wobbly Spiral.afdesignThe middle bottom spiral has a vector brush applied and is expanded, this should exist in Affinity apps and I'm sure it will at some point, the rest were manipulated by the distortion tools and still remain vectors. 
 

[albertkinng]

On 5/21/2023 at 8:11 AM, Red Sands said:

You can't make such simple formulations that hold true in more than a few simple cases. Reality is often bound together by multiple tools, methods, disciplines and personality types. Believing in indisputable truths in such scenarios is one of humanity's biggest mistakes. It also depends entirely on what you are doing and what your output medium is. There are simply so many variables that can be combined in countless ways.

LMAO! 😂 Totally out of context! I'm not here to argue about who's right or wrong, but rather to share my experience and knowledge to help those who believe they need a popular tool to achieve their goals. When I was 21, I spent all my savings on a PowerMac G3 Beige 233mhz and a Micromat color Scanner, and didn't have enough money to buy Photoshop. However, using a very limited app called Color It 3.0, I created a portfolio for a well-known hotel franchise and delivered the files to a department that was using Adobe products and the latest equipment. This experience taught me that excuses only bring limitations on your goals. I still have the printed samples with me as a reminder of this lesson. I want to emphasize that Affinity Suite alone can be sufficient for anyone starting in this graphic design business, even if there are more powerful alternatives. You can achieve your goals with Affinity apps.

Edited May 23, 2023 by albertkinng
added link for Color It 3.0

[animositysomina]

12 hours ago, albertkinng said:

You can achieve your goals with Affinity apps.

There is no doubt that one can achieve a lot with Affinity. And there is no doubt that the Affinity Suite, especially AD is fantastic and a great value compared to the one-time payment price.
But still, it can be made even better. And the thing with the not true vector brushes, they could have communicated this little thing more clearly. It's just, if someone buys AD and it states that it's a Vector based program, you assmue that you also have vector based brushes. At least that's what I tought when I bought AD and all the "vector" brushes for this programm.
I really hope, that the devs will make a clear statement on this topic, whether or not we can ever expect real vector brushes. And if they say no, then at least this issue is settled and we can all move on.

[Andy05]

On 5/21/2023 at 12:35 PM, Red Sands said:

CorelDRAW - expensive (and in other words, out of reach for many)

As much as I love the Affinity Suite apps, a 5+ years old CorelDRAW still way ahead in terms of vector design. I still have my licensed version of CorelDRAW SE on my system, got it really cheap at eBay back then. I can only recommend, that everyone who's truly into vector works, might try to get a license of that app without subscription. It will cover all your needs, which Designer lacks.

Do the main work in Designer, switch to CorelDRAW for specific tasks and either copypaste or export/import latter app's work into designer...

[Boldlinedesign]

1 hour ago, Andy05 said:

It will cover all your needs, which Designer lacks.

 

It's true that Corel can offer all the missing tools and features of Affinity Designer - but it's also very expensive to purchase outright and does not play nice with other vector editing programs. I considered picking up Corel but ended up with Vectorstyler because it was more user friendly and is not subscription based and the cost is just a little more than buying Affinity Designer. 

[albertkinng]

I want to express my opinion without causing offense, but it seems that this forum is not intended for reselling other apps. Every tool is designed to assist people in meeting their specific needs. To illustrate, when you need to build something, you have numerous options for hammers. You purchase the one that feels comfortable and performs well according to your requirements. There are countless hammers available, and surprisingly, I haven’t come across anyone complaining about the lack of a round tip on a Milwaukee hammer compared to the perfect round tip of a Stiletto hammer. Nor have I encountered anyone trying to advocate that the only hammer worth buying is the Husky one. Ultimately, a skilled builder chooses the hammer they are most proficient with and includes it in their toolbox. As I mentioned before, and I reiterate now, the best tool is the one you have mastered.

[Andy05]

16 hours ago, Boldlinedesign said:

It's true that Corel can offer all the missing tools and features of Affinity Designer - but it's also very expensive to purchase outright and does not play nice with other vector editing programs. I considered picking up Corel but ended up with Vectorstyler because it was more user friendly and is not subscription based and the cost is just a little more than buying Affinity Designer. 

Well, you don't need the most recent version of CorelDraw as a "workaround replacement" for Designer's features. You can find licenses for older versions (OEM) for as low as 75-80 EUR—or even lower, if you use some versions from 4-6 years ago. Also with a perpetual license. That's even cheaper than VectorStyler...

I'm not arguing about the user friendliness of VectorStyler. Though, I've been using CorelDraw since Version 1.2/the early 90s - so I'm used to their workflow and UI and that's one of the main reasons, for me personally, why I'd chose CorelDraw over VectorStyler.

13 hours ago, albertkinng said:

I want to express my opinion without causing offense, but it seems that this forum is not intended for reselling other apps. Every tool is designed to assist people in meeting their specific needs. To illustrate, when you need to build something, you have numerous options for hammers. You purchase the one that feels comfortable and performs well according to your requirements. There are countless hammers available, and surprisingly, I haven’t come across anyone complaining about the lack of a round tip on a Milwaukee hammer compared to the perfect round tip of a Stiletto hammer. Nor have I encountered anyone trying to advocate that the only hammer worth buying is the Husky one. Ultimately, a skilled builder chooses the hammer they are most proficient with and includes it in their toolbox. As I mentioned before, and I reiterate now, the best tool is the one you have mastered.

If a tool is missing basic features and essentials, which every other competitive app provides for ages, it's probably worth checking out if they should get added after a decade of development. In your analogy, one of the hammers has a huge hole in the front side. Yeah, might work, but it might not be the best option to use, because you might miss the nail with some of your hammering attempts.

I still can't think of any good reason why a vector app was developed without true vector brushes in first place.

 

[albertkinng]

4 hours ago, Andy05 said:

In your analogy, one of the hammers has a huge hole in the front side.

I disagree. 

[Andy05]

14 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

I disagree. 

That's your right. But if you bring "hammers" into the play, you'd have to add those, which lacks basic "hammer-ish" features, or your comparison is just nonsense.

[albertkinng]

2 hours ago, Andy05 said:

That's your right.

Exactly. There should be no "buts". Just as I respect your opinion even if I disagree with it, you should respect mine without resorting to any metaphoric hammers. 🤝

[albertkinng]

VectorStyler is 50% off now! Time to get it!

[loukash]

11 hours ago, albertkinng said:

VectorStyler is 50% off now! Time to get it!

Definitely! At that price point it's a valuable supplement ("plugin") for Affinity's still missing features. Basic data exchange per copy & paste usually works fine.

[Boldlinedesign]

On 11/23/2023 at 5:59 AM, loukash said:

At that price point it's a valuable supplement ("plugin") for Affinity's still missing features.

Or, given that it can do so much more than Designer, it could be the primary and Designer could be the plugin

[albertkinng]

49 minutes ago, Boldlinedesign said:

it could be the primar

Nope. You’ll see. I’ve tried. The UI/UX is horrendous.

[Boldlinedesign]

4 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

Nope. You’ll see. I’ve tried. The UI/UX is horrendous.

I already switched from Affinity to VS as my main vector program. The UI/UX doesn't seem much different to me than Designer to be honest, especially after all the improvements in the new 1.2 beta. It looks better than Illustrator for sure.

There are always things that can be improved. What about the VS UI/UX makes it "horrendous" in comparison to Designer?

[albertkinng]

10 minutes ago, Boldlinedesign said:

There are always things that can be improved. What about the VS UI/UX makes it "horrendous" in comparison to Designer?

If you don’t consider it awful, I won't contend with your perspective. I'm okay with your preference. Personally, as a designer, I prefer tools that are as pleasing to look at as they are useful for my creative work. Applications such as Inkscape and VectorStyler that share a certain design ethos don’t quite resonate with my style. But if they work for you, that's great. 
 

for example, I prefer CleanShotX over Shttr. Both do the same, maybe one is less powerful than the other, however I will pay extra just for the UI/UX design effort into the app. CleanShotX is undeniably beautiful.

Edited November 25, 2023 by albertkinng
Added samples of app designs

[Boldlinedesign]

2 hours ago, albertkinng said:

If you don’t consider it awful, I won't contend with your perspective. I'm okay with your preference. Personally, as a designer, I prefer tools that are as pleasing to look at as they are useful for my creative work. Applications such as Inkscape and VectorStyler that share a certain design ethos don’t quite resonate with my style. But if they work for you, that's great. 
 

for example, I prefer CleanShotX over Shttr. Both do the same, maybe one is less powerful than the other, however I will pay extra just for the UI/UX design effort into the app. CleanShotX is undeniably beautiful.

Since you refuse to give any specific examples I won't contend with your perspective. Sounds like you have not used VS in recent weeks as it looks much improved. You could post ideas for improving the UI/UX on the VS forum if you feel its really that bad. One of the great things about VS is that is rapidly improving. People make suggestions all the time and provide improved icons and the like and they are often implemented quickly. I took another look at Designer and its does not seem to be any different aside from having colored icons and fewer features. 

On a sidenote, I also use cleanshot but have never heard of Shttr. 

[albertkinng]

1 minute ago, Boldlinedesign said:

On a sidenote, I also use cleanshot but have never heard of Shttr.

Apologies for the confusion; the correct spelling is Shottr. If you'd like to see it in action, the link is functional and the app itself is truly exceptional. Additionally, I did provide you with some examples of noteworthy UI/UX design, such as VectorStyler and Inkscape. I personally find VectorStyler to be a valuable tool that I use on a daily basis as a companion to my main design app. It offers unique features that are not available in Designer. Perhaps my use of the term "awful" was not the best choice of words in this context, as I understand that it may work well for you. I apologize for any confusion caused by my comment. I was solely referring to my own preference regarding the UI/UX of the app. That's all. Shall we call a truce?

[Boldlinedesign]

2 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

Shall we call a truce?

Sure - I would just implore you to share what you would like to see improved specifically about the VS UI/UX  on the VS forum with examples. Too many people, especially on this forum like to put down VS for reasons they will not explain. They refuse to share their issues with VS on that forum for some strange reason even though it would be immediately considered and potentially implemented quickly. We can all be excited that there are multiple vector editing options out there and in my opinion, we should be encouraging growth and development in all of them we use in any capacity.

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, Boldlinedesign said:

What about the VS UI/UX makes it "horrendous" in comparison to Designer?

I have not tried the beta version nor would I describe the UI as horrendous but personally, I find things like having so many of its tools having a pop out with what so often amounts to different options for the same tool very hard to get used to compared to how Affinity handles that. I also miss having a status bar. Is there any way to add that bar or customize the Tools panel like in Affinity?

Overall, it just seems very cluttered with far more buttons & such than I think it needs to have.

Also, a lot of things do not seem to be working as I think they are supposed to, like Panels > Toolbox Style > Two Column Toolbox not changing that panel to 2 columns.

I'm using version 1.1.114 if that matters.

[albertkinng]

41 minutes ago, Boldlinedesign said:

I would just implore you to share what you would like to see improved specifically about the VS UI/UX  on the VS forum

Are you the creator of the software? Your perspective appears quite personal for just a regular user. Clearly, this isn't the place to exchange ideas for enhancements or speculate on what's next for VectorStyler—this is a space dedicated to Affinity. Our focus here is on anticipating developments within Affinity, not on what other software might offer. We turn to VectorStyler merely as an alternative option, not because it surpasses Affinity. Whether you're the developer or an avid supporter of VectorStyler, that's fine, but please recognize the context of this platform before initiating in-depth discussions about an external application.

[Andy05]

On 11/23/2023 at 12:07 AM, albertkinng said:

VectorStyler is 50% off now! Time to get it!

I love how they make digs against other vector apps.

• Quote

  Use real vector brushes, stretching vector graphics along shapes to create brush paint effects.

[loukash]

26 minutes ago, Andy05 said:

I love how they make digs against other vector apps.

Their goals are set very high and that's definitely respectable.
For the fun of it, I just checked how well does VS live up to their "Open Native AI" claim. I have quite a few old complex *.ai layouts that I had to save without the PDF stream to keep the archive file size reasonably small. I randomly picked one (a CD digipak layout) and VS did crack it open. Not 100% accurate but all basic elements were there, editable, i.e. with some effort I might be able to rebuild the layout without having to start over again from an already flattened PDF/X-3.
Respect.
From all ADe (and AI, for that matter) alternatives I've tried so far, for me VS is the one to keep. Personally I see VS sort of as an equivalent to GraphicConverter: it never was my go-to bitmap editor, but it always had a spot in my Applications folder, ever since the Mac System 7 days.