Selecting objects by intersecting marquee - problem

[Lindsay Wilson]

I'm having problems with the "select object when intersects with selection marquee option". Example screenshot attached. I want to click/drag to select only the small line as shown, but it's also selecting the larger line as well. It's as if the selection is too "generous" and selects objects even when they are close, not actually interesecting.

A worse example is trying to select a small object totally enclosed by a larger one, see second screenshot. It's impossible - the outer object is always selected.

I know that in these examples I don't need to use the intersect with marquee option, but they're just examples - an actual design I'm working on would benefit hugely from this, and I can't use it. Also, none of the lines have a fill, so it's not like it's intersecting with the fill.

Would appreciate any tips on how to get this working correctly!

[MikeTO]

Hi Lindsay, I can't duplicate the top issue at all, it always selects just the small line for me.

The second one (line inside circle) is by design. Your drag is intersecting the circle. The setting doesn't mean when it intersects the object's stroke, it means when it intersects the object's stroke and fill. An unfilled circle or unfilled curve still has an associated fill area and intersecting with that will select the object.

[Old Bruce]

By design, but it seems wrong when I have a shape with no fill still being selected.

[walt.farrell]

6 hours ago, Lindsay Wilson said:

Example screenshot attached. I want to click/drag to select only the small line as shown, but it's also selecting the larger line as well. It's as if the selection is too "generous" and selects objects even when they are close, not actually interesecting.

It might help if you gave us a sample Affinity document (.afdesign, .afphoto, .afpub) that demonstrates the problem. Also, what OS are you using?         

[Lindsay Wilson]

@MikeTO @Old Bruce @walt.farrellthanks for getting back. If indeed that is by design, I'm afraid that's pretty silly. I understand if the object had a fill, that's no problem, but to still behave the same way on an object with no fill? Weird. Anyway, here's an example file, along with a screenshot. I'm on Win 10, 64 bit, and using the latest version of Designer (2.0.4).

The big line has a variable-width stroke, set using the pressure curve. Forget for a moment about the click+drag selection thing, and only consider selection by clicking. Try clicking near the big line to select it - you'll see that if you click anywhere roughly within the red-highlighted area, the big line gets selected. This seems weird - I understand having a slight tolerance, but even at the thin end of the line, it still gets selected when clicking relatively far away. Logically, I would expect to only be able to select the line when clicking on the black area - for example, this is what Inkscape does. Illustrator, on the other hand, selects only when clicking on the actual curve path (at least in my version).

Now for the fun part - try to select the short blue line by clicking on it. You can't. Even though it's separated from the big line, it's still within the big line's "sensitive zone", so the big line gets selected in preference. The blue line also happens to be below the big line - if you move it above, then you can select it, but I positioned it below to demonstrate the point.

For the click+drag, if you start anywhere within the red area, then the big line again gets automatically selected.

This is a really peculiar behaviour. Somebody please tell me I'm doing something wrong, or there's a setting I've missed, otherwise I'm going to like Designer a lot less!

Selection demonstration.afdesign

[Lindsay Wilson]

@N.P.M. I'm aware of alt-clicking, but it's clunky, especially when it doesn't seem to work with the node tool. I still stand by my original claim that having an object get selected when you don't click directly on it (which is essentially what this all boils down do) is dumb!

[walt.farrell]

16 hours ago, Lindsay Wilson said:

I still stand by my original claim that having an object get selected when you don't click directly on it (which is essentially what this all boils down do) is dumb!

But you were clicking "directly on it".

Here is what you provided to us (with the pink layer hidden, as it confuses things a bit):

Anywhere within that blue rectangle (bounding box) for the large curve is part of the curve.

If you want to select the small line on the upper left, you can:

1. Start your selection above it, or slightly higher than you were (to avoid the bounding box of the larger curve). Or
2. Change your Preferences, Tools, so you have to fully enclose an object to select it. or
3. Select by clicking or Alt-clicking, not marquee selection.

[Lindsay Wilson]

@walt.farrell Thanks for the reply. Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but to me, "clicking directly on it" means "clicking ON the black region". Not "clicking somewhere NEAR the black region". No other software I use regularly (e.g. Illustrator, Rhino, Inkscape) behaves like this.

Part of the problem in Designer also seems to be caused by the use of a tapered stroke. If I use the pressure curve to produce a tapered stroke, the selectable region still behaves as if the path had a full-width stroke. I.e. at the narrow end of the path, it easily gets selected even when clicking away from the path. Just to nail it flat once more - clicking anywhere in the highlighted area selects the curve. I still say this is weird.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, Lindsay Wilson said:

Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but to me, "clicking directly on it" means "clicking ON the black region". Not "clicking somewhere NEAR the black region". No other software I use regularly (e.g. Illustrator, Rhino, Inkscape) behaves like this.

Clicking directly on an object works for me in the Affinity apps, so I do not know why that is not working for you.

But as @walt.farrell explained, clicking elsewhere in its bounding box works differently from what you might expect.

[Lindsay Wilson]

@R C-R Clicking directly (as in, "on the black area") works fine for me too, I didn't mean to imply that it didn't. It's the clicking elsewhere I have issue with.

[walt.farrell]

12 minutes ago, Lindsay Wilson said:

It's the clicking elsewhere I have issue with.

The object is bigger than you realize, as it has a rectangular bounding box.

[R C-R]

35 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

The object is bigger than you realize, as it has a rectangular bounding box.

Even so, there seems to be in V2 at least a zone just slightly inside the bounding box near its edges that does not select the black object in the example file. That doen't seem right.

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

[Lindsay Wilson]

@R C-R Hmm...so for you is it selecting the big black line when clicking anywhere within the bounding box (apart from near the edges)? Or is it only within the area I highlighted? For me, it's definitely only in the highlighted area.

14 hours ago, R C-R said:

Even so, there seems to be in V2 at least a zone just slightly inside the bounding box near its edges that does not select the black object in the example file. That doen't seem right.

 

[Lindsay Wilson]

3 hours ago, lacerto said:

I do not think that it is the bounding box that determines the hitting area in context of marquee selection but imaginary area of the object as if it were filled. There is also a tolerance of selection determined in pixels so an object when viewed as small will be appear to be selected from a greater distance from the actual path.

On the other hand, for direct selection (not performed by using a marquee) an object will not be selected by the same area but based on tolerance. This is clearly different from behavior of e.g. Illustrator, where the default (I think) is that objects are selected as if they were filled, and if this option is disabled, only when clicking the actual path (within the set tolerance) or marquee selecting crossing a path.

There does not appear to be a possibility to change this behavior in Affinity apps, but only the behavior of marquee selection (whether an object to be selected needs to be enclosed entirely or only by its [imaginary or actually] filled area). As for direct selection, an object will be selected only when its path [within toleration] or actual [but not imaginary] fill is clicked.

In many apps, like inkscape, CorelDRAW and VectorStyler Alt/Option key is used as a modifier to perform partial marquee kind of selection where the actual path needs to be crossed to make an object included in a selection. This kind of behavior would be nice to have also in Affinity apps, since partial marquee selection as it is implemented now behaves "unintuitively" in comparison to other similar apps. [Interestingly, this kind of partial marquee selection, without a modifler key, needing crossing of the actual path, is applied in Affinity apps when selecting e.g. Donut shapes made to arcs with 100% radius.]

@lacertoInteresting stuff. You're right, it does indeed appear to be the area that would be filled. Why it's different when using the marquee instead of clicking, I can't understand. It also makes it impossible to use the marquee + crossing within a closed shape - e.g. say you have several small shapes inside a larger circle, you'll always end up selecting the outer circle as well.

Now I understand what that option in Illustrator does There's a setting for "Object selection by path only" - sure enough, if that's on, then you have to click on the actual stroke for it to be selected, and it ignores the filled area. However, even with the option off, if the path has no/empty fill, then Illustrator still ignores the filled area and reverts to only clicking on the path. Affinity considers the filled area regardless of whether it's really filled or not.

The Alt select option in Inkscape is very useful, as it allows dragging freehand across the objects to be selected, you're not just confined to a marquee.

Another sort of behaviour, which I've been accustomed to for so long without realising, is used for marquee selection in Rhino. If you drag from left to right, then it selects enclosing objects, but if you drag right to left, it selects crossing objects. Very easy way to choose the behaviour without having to worry about modifier keys.

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

[lacerto]

Obsolete.