Decimal-place accuracy missing still

[johnnydfred]

I’m reposting this to make current an issue with the iPad version of Designer. I originally posted in 2018 and again in 2019 about the lack of real decimal unit accuracy when compared to the desktop version. I work in Designer a lot and am limited in what I can do on the iPad (my preferred Designer platform!) because this feature continues to be absent:

Decimal places in even small millimeter scales is possible in files created in the desktop Designer version. But move that file to the iPad, and while the placed units are correct, any attempt to view that accuracy (rounds to nearest whole number), or change the dimension to a decimal-level number - destroys the object’s dimensional accuracy. 

This really needs to be addressed by the dev team. There is no excuse that I can think of that would legitimize continued non-support of this basic-level (in many ways critical) feature. I’ll leave the forum members to weigh in on their experience, as well as hope for a response and plan from Serif.

[Callum]

Hi Johnnydfred,

The iPad version of the app currently rounds off the numbers only within the transform panel itself. If you entered a decimal point value the object on the canvas will be same size up to the decimal point. I understand this isn't ideal but hopefully we can update the fields on the transform panels to display the correct decimal values.

[johnnydfred]

Thanks, Callum. Yes, I appreciate the fact that the iPad version at least preserves the object size. But because one cannot get UI feedback as to that accurate size,  OR edit the actual size, the preservation feature cannot belay the bug. You see my point right? Hopefully this can be at the top of your iPad app defect list, as it renders the iPad version of Designer useless for many. I truly love the iPad version for work – hence my troubled soul! :-((

[johnnydfred]

Circling back on this subject with more of what I know to be true:

1. Callum's previous comment on rounding is partly true, but the reality is that settings in AD Mac are changed when edited in in AD iPad. This occurs after I tried changing the settings in AD Mac to "3 decimal places in mm, 4 in cm, and 5 in m." I then set an object to "680.65mm" in AD Mac, saved the file, and opened it in AD iPad. The object was rounded to "680.1" in the transform panel. And in checking the actual size of the object in AD Mac - the object's size had been changed as well. Definitively, this suggests that AD iPad can not handle anywhere near the accuracy of the Mac version, making it completely useless as a tool for work. Again, memories of Adobe Illustrator's long history which only in 2012 was corrected.

2. The issues I've had with grid in AD iPad is confirmed as well. No amount of fiddling with the Snap toggles, or resetting the grid in Standard mode, allows me to actually snap to the grid - or snap to a size - in AD iPad. Meaning, the grid that is presented and the snap system are not aligned. This may, or may not have to do with the roller deficiency. Code-wise, worth looking into.

In all I'm at an impasse with AD iPad use. I truly love working in this app on the iPad - it is my preferred platform for this app - but I can't resolve the inaccuracy of file work, and results.

If anyone can explain how I am mistaken, illogical, or just ignorant on this, I'm game to discuss. I'd love to be disproven, so I can get back to work on a great app on a great platform.

Cheers, 

John

[Squarebear]

Is there a technical limitation on iPad that prevents giving us even two decimal places? I work with laser cutters and create pieces in AD, but the lack of verifiable precision on the iPad version makes it a no-go beyond initial conceptual work. I simply cannot trust it. There are many many people out there who need verifiable accuracy, and this, for me, should be considered a bug unless it simply cannot be achieved on an ipad. I can’t think why this would be a thing considering how powerful these things have gotten.

[johnnydfred]

Glad someone else feels my similar pain. Squarebear, I don't think the iPad/HW is the issue. I run lots of software which - in explicit and implicit values - needs to be very accurate. As most of AD on iPad runs well, one must assume it makes use of some pretty deep dev. Processing power on this machine, in calculations and graphic processing is major.

I'm hoping Serif will address this if it gains more attention. I've been using AD on iPad since 2017, and started voicing this deficiency only a year later. I can only hope they get to a fix some day soon. 

[Squarebear]

Personally, I would place this as the number one problem to fix on AD for iPad. Everyone will have their own, but this one seems fixable and also fundamentally flawed in its current state.

[RoywithaT]

Adding support for this fix. Very critical for my work also.  Thank you. 

[Squarebear]

On 9/15/2022 at 10:43 PM, Squarebear said:

Personally, I would place this as the number one problem to fix on AD for iPad. Everyone will have their own, but this one seems fixable and also fundamentally flawed in its current state.

V2 has not added this

[johnnydfred]

Great update on all apps. And alas, you are right - still, still, still not fixed. Now with measure, AND area! And still no accuracy on AD2 iPad.

AFFINITY, please get this fixed!!!!!

[johnnydfred]

I am sure Serif is challenged with tending to many new user requests and reports, but I will continue to place focus on this critical bug in AD iPad. Please, Serif, put this defect on your backlog, as there are many designers who really need a fix. AD iPad is rather useless without reliable object units. 0.1 units accuracy doesn’t cut it. Redefining actual object sizes in files from AD Mac - just because AD iPad can’t handle 0.0001 unit definitions - doesn’t cut it. 

[RJami1]

Only within the morph panel itself do the numbers round off in the app's iPad version at the moment. The object on the canvas will have the same size up to the decimal point if you entered a value with a decimal place. Although I recognise that this isn't ideal, ideally we can fix the fields on the transform panels so that they show the right decimal values.

[johnnydfred]

I wish it was as simple as just not displaying the number entered. My repeated tests suggest that the actual object is changing its previously-defined, hundredths-and-smaller dimensions when an AD Mac file is opened in AD iPad.

I'll test more on this, with the intent to publish a demonstration of this so the issue is better understood.

[johnnydfred]

Latest post on this subject, after some v2 assessment of the conditions of the grid/dimensioning accuracy and app UI feedback of Affinity Designer on both Mac and iPad.

It looks like Serif has addressed grid problems - Thank you! Grids on both platforms now agree with one another, and under Standard grid configurations, reflect the settings they are set to. One continuing incidence is that the settings under Standard are limited - and reach a point where input for grid size is not accepted. I couldn't find a threshold for this - it might have to do with resolution settings of the file.

For dimensioning limitations, it seems at least objects consistently reflect the size they have been set to. On both platforms. This is great news as a previous error across platforms made iPad version use nearly impossible. Great work, Serif!

So the layer size feedback is the last issue that needs to be fixed. And now this error extends to the Mac platform as well. Yah, it used to only occur on the iPad. But now a design doesn't reflect actual-sized layers ANYWHERE.  

I'll try to say this without repeating myself too much:

**If a user cannot visually confirm a layer's actual size, beyond one tenth of a unit (one number to the right of the decimal point), the app will continue to be largely useless to most designers needing decimal accuracy feedback.**

There is no work-around for this. Serif, please prioritize a fix.

[thoroughburro]

My current workflow involves writing down the true dimensions of objects on paper, as I create them. There is no other way to refer back to the true dimensions otherwise. Affinity Designer 2 cannot, will not, and seemingly will never divulge its secrets. The secret of what size things are. In a design program.

[walt.farrell]

6 minutes ago, thoroughburro said:

My current workflow involves writing down the true dimensions of objects on paper, as I create them. There is no other way to refer back to the true dimensions otherwise. Affinity Designer 2 cannot, will not, and seemingly will never divulge its secrets. The secret of what size things are. In a design program.

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums.

In Designer 2, if you have setup a Scaled document, you can always use the Measure Tool to find the true dimensions of an object.

[RJami1]

The values currently round off in the iPad app only within the morph panel itself. If you input a value with a decimal place, the object on the canvas will be the same size up to the decimal point. Ideally, we can fix the fields on the transform panels so that they show the correct decimal values, even though I am aware that this isn't ideal.

[johnnydfred]

On 2/6/2023 at 11:27 AM, walt.farrell said:

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums.

In Designer 2, if you have setup a Scaled document, you can always use the Measure Tool to find the true dimensions of an object.

Sorry Walt, but that’s insane. Having to create a scaled object just to have simple feedback as to any object’s size is asking the user to jump through hoops just to get what is already available, but not shown. Until there is SOMEPLACE where this kind of information is revealed, AD will be lacking. Every vector app on the planet provides this feature - because it is an elemental requirement to design.
 

* Historically, Adobe Illustrator took over 8 years - 1994-2002 - to give users more than 2 decimals in their application: during which they were pounded for not having what Adlus’ Freehand app provided (5+ decimals!)

[walt.farrell]

8 hours ago, johnnydfred said:

Sorry Walt, but that’s insane. Having to create a scaled object just to have simple feedback as to any object’s size is asking the user to jump through hoops just to get what is already available, but not shown.

Well, there's also looking at the Transform panel, which I neglected to mention. But that one is so obvious that perhaps I assumed it wasn't what the user wanted.

Second, setting up a scaled document is very simple, if that is what one needs.

[johnnydfred]

On 2/11/2023 at 5:44 AM, walt.farrell said:

Well, there's also looking at the Transform panel,

That’s the problem Walt. The Transform panel doesn’t reflect the size that’s entered. It only rounds to one decimal point. Even bringing the entry panel up (gaming the system to think one is editing the number and then reveal the actual size) yields no accuracy. 

[walt.farrell]

6 hours ago, johnnydfred said:

That’s the problem Walt. The Transform panel doesn’t reflect the size that’s entered. It only rounds to one decimal point.

I probably didn;'t notice the discussion was about iPad. Sorry.

[thoroughburro]

Indeed, if you so much as bring up the entry panel to check, but then cancel out of it, the rounded dimensions are immediately applied. If you miss that and don’t undo immediately, you lose the original, exactly entered size and it can be very difficult to reverse.

[RJami1]

Only the morph panel itself rounds off values at the moment in the iPad app. The object on the canvas will have the same size up to the decimal point if you input a value with a decimal place. Although I am aware that this isn't ideal, it would be ideal if we could fix the fields on the transform panels so that they display the correct decimal values.

[fde101]

On 2/21/2023 at 10:48 AM, thoroughburro said:

Indeed, if you so much as bring up the entry panel to check, but then cancel out of it, the rounded dimensions are immediately applied. If you miss that and don’t undo immediately, you lose the original, exactly entered size and it can be very difficult to reverse.

This one definitely sounds like a bug and would probably be worth reporting as such.  The fact that only one digit is displayed is an unfortunate design choice and fixing that is a feature request, but if displaying and closing the panel is causing the dimensions to change, that should be treated as a bug.

[johnnydfred]

7 hours ago, RJami1 said:

Only the morph panel itself rounds off values at the moment in the iPad app. The object on the canvas will have the same size up to the decimal point if you input a value with a decimal place. Although I am aware that this isn't ideal, it would be ideal if we could fix the fields on the transform panels so that they display the correct decimal values.

Exactly. Displaying what it actually is. There is a task flow that it required to be useful, and without feedback as to what user has entered - changed, corrected, or otherwise - the task flow fails.