Page(s) vs artboards in Designer

[Petar Petrenko]

As we know Publisher uses pages, Designer -- artboards and Photo -- page/artboard = ?

But, if Designer uses artboards, why when creating a new document it is set to create a new page instead of artboard. Yes, I know there is a checkbox for artboard creation, but it is not the point. Lets say you created a new page. After that there is no option AFAIK to add a new single or facing page(s) and when you select "Create Artboard" tool -- the page vanishes.

So, what is the purpose of the (only one) page you can create? Why this option is not removed and let Designer works only with artboards as it should be?

NOTE: Not intereseted in setting "Create Artboard" as default.

[prophet]

I always think of an Artboard as the highest level of container and only use them if I need that sort of organizational element. For most of my work, just working on a single page is sufficient.

I think an "on creation" preference setting of Page or Artboard could work, but since we can already set our own preset to include the "create artboard" checkbox, it's already there really.

[Old Bruce]

9 minutes ago, NNN said:

But, if Designer uses artboards, why when creating a new document it is set to create a new page instead of artboard. 

Actually Designer and Photo make a "canvas" not a page like in Publisher. Designer can subsequently make one or more Artboards. All three use the word Page for the Width and Height of a new document, it is perhaps inaccurate to use that word.

Here is one dictionary's definition of Page: Computing a section of stored data, especially that which can be displayed on a screen at one time. 

I am posting this in a Web page on a web site. The page starts out small in area but it will grow as more content is added.  I find that the English language is sometimes confusing.

[prophet]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

Actually Designer and Photo make a "canvas" not a page like in Publisher.

Semantics. Whatever it is in Designer/Photo, it appears as a Page in Publisher, so they are really the same thing. Artboards are a completely different animal.

[Petar Petrenko]

3 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Actually Designer and Photo make a "canvas"

Actually, there is no "canvas" in Designer. When you create a new document you can set page width and height.

[Petar Petrenko]

2 minutes ago, prophet said:

Semantics.

I don't think so. Page is usually a piece of paper for writing/printing or a web page. Canvas is used by the artists to paint on them with brushes and other materials.

[prophet]

5 minutes ago, NNN said:

I don't think so. Page is usually a piece of paper for writing/printing or a web page. Canvas is used by the artists to paint on them with brushes and other materials.

But can't I write on a canvas and paint on a piece of paper?

The point being, whatever the software calls it, the thing is the same in all 3 apps. Publisher shows it to us in a special panel and allows for their creation/deletion. The other 2 allow for navigation between them, but not for additional creation or deletion.

[Dan C]

42 minutes ago, NNN said:

As we know Publisher uses pages, Designer -- artboards and Photo -- page/artboard = ?

As confirmed above, Affinity apps will create a 'Canvas' for single spread documents in Designer/Photo.
You then have the option to convert this canvas to an Artboard (if not selected when creating the document) in Designer, where you can then add multiple more Artboards, as required.

Publisher is the only app that supports 'Pages' & in Publisher this is always a 'Page', whether there is one or multiple, due to the other features of Publisher that require this naming scheme, such as master pages.

42 minutes ago, NNN said:

So, what is the purpose of the (only one) page you can create? Why this option is not removed and let Designer works only with artboards as it should be?

Put simply - choice.

Some users of Designer may never use Artboards as they only require one 'space' in the document for their work, and therefore use a singular canvas. Being in tech support I would say that the number of Designer documents I receive that are only a single Canvas and not multiple Artboards is roughly in the 60-70% range.

Removing the option for a single canvas in Designer provides no benefit to either Canvas or Artboard users, it would simply reduce the available choices in the app

[Island Girl]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:45 AM, Dan C said:

Some users of Designer may never use Artboards as they only require one 'space' in the document for their work, and therefore use a singular canvas. Being in tech support I would say that the number of Designer documents I receive that are only a single Canvas and not multiple Artboards is roughly in the 60-70% range.

I know this is old but I have a question. What is different about the Canvas when it turns into an Artboard? Is it just that the "Artboard" can have multiple instances on the pasteboard but the "Canvas" can only have one? Do the elements on the "Artboard" act differently at any point than the same elements on the "Canvas"? Do they have different applications in any way?

[walt.farrell]

36 minutes ago, Island Girl said:

I know this is old but I have a question. What is different about the Canvas when it turns into an Artboard? Is it just that the "Artboard" can have multiple instances on the pasteboard but the "Canvas" can only have one? Do the elements on the "Artboard" act differently at any point than the same elements on the "Canvas"? Do they have different applications in any way?

If you have a Canvas in Photo, items that are outside of the Canvas are invisible. You can Clip or Unclip the Canvas to include them (which enlarges the Canvas), but you cannot keep the Canvas the same size and see items outside of it.

On the other hand, in Designer when you have a Canvas, you have a View option to Clip to Canvas (or not). This lets you see items that are outside of the Canvas and work with them, or hide them so they are not visible.

In Designer when you have an Artboard, Clip to Canvas is ignored and always treated as though it is off. That means you can always see items that are completely outside any Artboard. However, if you have an object that is on an Artboard, and it crosses the edge of the Artboard, the part of it beyond the Artboard edge will be invisible.

(Also, if you have multiple Artboards (or sometimes even a single Artboard) there are a number of bugs that may occur when you're using pixel layers or Adjustments or masks for objects on the Artboards. But that's somewhat beyond the scope of your question, I think.)

[Island Girl]

Thanks very much Walt, that helps me a lot.

[walt.farrell]

You're welcome.

[Petar Petrenko]

On 8/12/2022 at 4:45 PM, Dan C said:

Some users of Designer may never use Artboards as they only require one 'space' in the document for their work, and therefore use a singular canvas.

It won't change anything for the users if this one space is Artboard instead of Canvas.

[Alfred]

12 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

It won't change anything for the users if this one space is Artboard instead of Canvas.

As @walt.farrell explained, if you have an object that crosses the edge of the artboard, the part that is not on the artboard will always be invisible. When you use a canvas, you can choose whether to make that part visible or not.

[Petar Petrenko]

52 minutes ago, Alfred said:

As @walt.farrell explained, if you have an object that crosses the edge of the artboard, the part that is not on the artboard will always be invisible. When you use a canvas, you can choose whether to make that part visible or not.

"Show invisible" or "Show offboard" can be added in "View" menu.

[Dan C]

2 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

It won't change anything for the users if this one space is Artboard instead of Canvas.

There are some subtle differences most users may not notice with a singular artboard, but they do exist.

Such as the ability to move the Artboard around the pasteboard area to non-integer values, which can cause unexpected sizes when exporting - whereas a canvas will always be set to 0X/0Y by default and cannot be physically 'moved' like an artboard around the pasteboard area.

[Alfred]

3 minutes ago, Dan C said:

non-integer values, which can cause unexpected sizes when exporting

Has that been acknowledged as a bug? And if so, is it realistic to expect that it will be fixed during the version 2 development cycle? 

[Dan C]

No - as covered in previous threads here on the forums it's expected behaviour to be able to move artboards to non-integer positions.

[Alfred]

It's expected behaviour to be able to move artboards to non-integer positions with respect to the document, and it’s expected behaviour to be able to move objects to non-integer positions with respect to the document and/or the artboards, but what clearly isn’t expected is for either the position of an artboard in the document or the position of an object on an artboard to affect the size of the object exported from that artboard: the pixel dimensions of the object should uniquely determine the pixel dimensions of the exported image.

[Petar Petrenko]

36 minutes ago, Dan C said:

...which can cause unexpected sizes when exporting...

What do you mean by this?
Sizes of the artboard(s)? Or the object(s)?

[Dan C]

17 minutes ago, Alfred said:

what clearly isn’t expected is for either the position of an artboard in the document or the position of an object on an artboard to affect the size of the object exported from that artboard

This might not be 'expected' from the users perspective, but it is the expected behaviour within Affinity currently, when you have a document setup in this way.

As mentioned, this isn't the first thread (nor likely the last to cover this) and our team have previously confirmed that the Affinity apps provide the user with a sandbox of tools - meaning you can choose to use the relevant snapping options to ensure your Artboards are always sized & positioned on integer pixel values - or you can forgo these and create an artboard at the size you want, in the location you choose, which can be non-integer values.

5 minutes ago, Petar Petrenko said:

What do you mean by this?
Sizes of the artboard(s)?

The size of the exported Artboard may be a slightly different size than reported in the Transform Studio, if the Artboard size itself or the position of the Artboard is a non-integer value.

Most export formats require integer values for H/W, therefore the Affinity app may have to round the size of the Artboard to meet these requirements.

For example, an Artboard created at 99.6px² and exported to JPEG will measure 100px² as the size has to be integer for the output file.
Equally, if the Artboard is 99px², but is on X/Y values of 0.6px, the exported JPEG will again measure 100px² as the affinity apps take into account the position of the Artboard, as well as the size when exporting.

[Petar Petrenko]

8 minutes ago, Dan C said:

The size of the exported Artboard may be a slightly different size than reported in the Transform Studio...

I don't think it is a big deal at all, but anyhow, would it take too much time to be fixed?

[Dan C]

Unfortunately I'm not a developer - I could not speak for the amount of time a specific change would take, not to mention there are other factors to consider to any change within the apps, such as testing across all 3 platforms in a variety of documents etc.

As above, the current behaviour with Artboards - although not what some users want from the apps - is expected at this time.

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, Petar Petrenko said:

"Show invisible" or "Show offboard" can be added in "View" menu.

If by Added you mean "chosen from the View options", then no, not for documents with an Artboard.

If by Added you mean "the program could be changed to allow that, in some future release", then yes. But we're talking about what is available now.