Flipped image indicator

[JHill]

Trying to find an indicator that tells me if an image has been flipped or not like in Adobe Indesign. Currently Adobe displays a box with the letter P in it (image attached). If the image has been flopped then the P is flopped. Likewise if the image has not been flopped then the P displays correctly. Does Affinity Publisher have anything like this?

 

[loukash]

Interesting point!

7 hours ago, Jody Hill said:

Does Affinity Publisher have anything like this?

Obviously not. Some indication would be nice.
But it seems to me that it doesn't even matter that much because you can always simply flip again.
And if you flip live text, you'll notice soon enough…

[JHill]

Ok thank you. 

Text would be more obvious 😜 but, I was more concerned with images when placing items in a catalog that may be flipped without noticing. The customer is not always happy when they receive something that was "made backwards". 

Hoping this feature may become available in the future as it is something that is used daily in my workflow. 

[GarryP]

Just out of interest, where would be the best place for the Affinity applications to display such an indicator?
I’m not asking where InDesign (or anything else) puts it, I’m asking where the best place for such an indicator would be if such functionality were to exist in the Affinity applications.

Also, is the way InDesign indicates whether an image has been flipped/flopped the best way to tell the user such information?
Would some other kind of indication not be better?

Also, would this just be for images, or for other types of layers too?
Which other types of layer would users find benefit from having this functionality on.

Consider this a chance to say what you need and where you want it, rather than simply where you may be used to having it.

[loukash]

35 minutes ago, Jody Hill said:

I was more concerned with images when placing items in a catalog that may be flipped without noticing. The customer is not always happy when they receive something that was "made backwards".

Haha, yeah, I hear you. A little anecdote: Last year I had it the other way around. I made a small illustration for a magazine – my first paid job done entirely in Affinity Designer, by the way. The publishing house layouter flipped my PDF in his InDesign layout for… uh, "reason". I was a bit annoyed. Since the illustration is for a repeating column, I made them a "naturally flipped" version of the same for their next use. But me being annoyed has helped anyway because just a few weeks ago I made a simple freehand graphic for the same magazine – also in ADe now, of course – and after delivering it, they have asked in advance if it's OK to just flip it, or if I could make a "custom flipped" version. Of course I opted for the latter because being right-handed, any of my flipped freehand graphics or illustrations looks unnatural to me as if it were made by someone else.

[loukash]

18 minutes ago, GarryP said:

where would be the best place for the Affinity applications to display such an indicator?

Layers panel: a small symbol, like the linked, pinned or fx indicator would already be fine by me.
They could then expand the flipped orientation on the context toolbar, probably in the Move tool context.

20 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Also, would this just be for images, or for other types of layers too?

For anything that is placed, for sure.
As noted, I wouldn't care that much about native vector and text layers.

[Old Bruce]

How about using the 'Rotation' handle on the object to indicate rotation? A slight modification would make it more obvious

[loukash]

11 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

handle on the object to indicate rotation?

Actually, yesterday I had the thought, for flipped objects the 2nd "scale" handle in the bottom right-hand corner could flip according to flipped settings:

[Old Bruce]

3 minutes ago, loukash said:

Actually, yesterday I had the thought, for flipped objects the 2nd "scale" handle in the bottom right-hand corner could flip according to flipped settings:

 

This only is available with Text Frames.

[loukash]

Just now, Old Bruce said:

This only is available with Text Frames.

I know. But could be "expanded" for this purpose.
Whatever. We're just brainstorming.

[GarryP]

I’m still wondering how this sort of functionality would be used.
Specifically, at which point(s) of the production process would someone need to know that a layer has been flipped?
Would they need to know while they are doing the layout for each page, or would they need to do some kind of ‘pre-press check’ before printing/exporting, or something else?
I don’t understand enough about when the user would need to have this information to understand why the functionality would be needed.

If you know that you shouldn’t be flipping an image, because the client doesn’t want the images to be flipped, why would you flip the image in the first place? If you go flipping stuff that you know you shouldn’t be flipping then isn’t that something that needs to be ‘fixed’ outside of the software? Don’t flip what shouldn’t be flipped.

If some kind of indicator is needed as a ‘final/mass check’ then wouldn’t it be better to have that indication in the Resource Manager rather than the Layers Panel? If the indication is in the Layers Panel then the user would have to click on each page/spread to check to see if the indicator was present. Conversely, if the indicator was in the Resource Manager then the user would only have to quickly scroll the list to see what has been flipped (if anything).

I think more thought needs to be put into why and when such functionality is needed.
It’s probably a good idea but I think it needs to be put where it will be most useful according to where people need it, when they need it.

[lacerto]

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[JHill]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I am currently discussing this with the layout team and will be able to better answer some of these questions soon. 

[loukash]

2 hours ago, Lagarto said:

Affinity workaround #8752

Which just inspired me to Affinity Workaround #8753:

Folks are asking for RTL support, right?
Well, all you need is a font editor (I have TypeTool 3 but any other should do):

1. flip all characters in your favorite RTL font
   
2. save the font under a new name (you should know what you're doing to avoid OS font conflicts)
3. activate your new flipped font
4. create a text frame in Affinity
5. flip the text frame
6. start typing RTL using your flipped font
   

 

Edit:
This is what I've typed and inserted when I flip the text frame back and assign a regular font:

Edited April 29, 2021 by loukash

[lacerto]

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[loukash]

9 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

you really need tools like this

I have no idea whatsoever what it "needs" in real life. All I'm doing here is a proof of concept.
Take it or die trying…

[JHill]

Our process and why we are in need of this feature works like this: 

 

• Rough Layout spread  - Place images, copy, and artwork

Often, images that were previously used on the left hand spread of the book will get moved to the right hand spread. 99% of the time that means the image needs flipped to face the center of the page. Sometimes it's ok to flip the image if the content is symmetrical or non directional, but when the product cannot be flipped it needs reshot. However, as a placeholder until the new image has been shot, the image remains flipped until its replaced.  So one reason we need the feature is to be able to quickly see which images were flipped by the layout team (usually a note is made but not always).

• Proof Each Spread

Once all the images have been shot and the new ones place, copy written etc, the spreads are ready to be proofed. Part of our proofing process is to make sure when the new image was placed that it was flipped back. It seems like an obvious part of the process but they do get missed.  This is the second place we would need the feature. 

 

Having the feature in both the resource manager and on the image itself would be useful. Since the resource manager is not part of the toolbar, you do not always have it open. Therefore when clicking on images it is another step to go and open the resource manager just to see if the image is flipped or not. In this case an indicator on the image box itself would be useful. However, it would be useful to have it in the resource manager as a sort of preflight check like you mentioned. One stop shop to view all the files at once. If the field was able to be sorted that would be even more useful since you could have all of the flipped images grouped together. 

 

Side note: Unless I am mistaken the resource manager is a floating panel only and not yet able to be pinned to the sidebar - which would also be a handy feature to have) 

 

[walt.farrell]

17 minutes ago, JHill said:

However, as a placeholder until the new image has been shot, the image remains flipped until its replaced.  So one reason we need the feature is to be able to quickly see which images were flipped by the layout team (usually a note is made but not always).

Thanks for the details.

For this one (placeholder), you might want to enhance your workflow by having the layout team add a Preflight Comment. Flip the image, then right-click on it and choose Preflight Comment > Set, and leave a note for later. If you try to Print or Export the file the presence of the comment will trigger an error or warning message. You can also find all the comments easily at any time using the Preflight functions.

[lacerto]

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[Wosven]

14 hours ago, GarryP said:

1. If you know that you shouldn’t be flipping an image, because the client doesn’t want the images to be flipped, why would you flip the image in the first place? If you go flipping stuff that you know you shouldn’t be flipping then isn’t that something that needs to be ‘fixed’ outside of the software? Don’t flip what shouldn’t be flipped.

If some kind of indicator is needed as a ‘final/mass check’ then wouldn’t it be better to have that indication in the Resource Manager rather than the Layers Panel? If the indication is in the Layers Panel then the user would have to click on each page/spread to check to see if the indicator was present. Conversely, if the indicator was in the Resource Manager then the user would only have to quickly scroll the list to see what has been flipped (if anything).

I've work on layout made by other, and I don't know what happened, but it seems this person had flipped some image frames, and copied them here and there... Since the mock-up used images I didn't inserted, I wasn't able to tell those where flipped at first glance.

But ID and checking when importing images helped a lot to correct those errors, and correcting the mockup with the dummy images.

 

Sorry to say this, but I just read this post

and if I keep on using the apps for personnal use, it's more and more easy to notice that a lot of small but usefull ideas, used in thoses others apps I use at work make life and work easier. Sometimes, it seems so small that people tend to ask "Why do you need this, really?" But in the end it make the difference(s).

Like clicking on the "New|Add|Substract" button when selecting something instead of using modifiers because Affinity use its own set of modifiers, and that's the only apps I can't add/substract easily...

Because simply inverting a selection on a mask do strange or impossible things when working with different artboards in AD or AP (yes, I open AD files in AP to use specific fonctionalities).

 

In the end of the day, you had to use a lot of tricks, or avoid some workflows because they're not smooth and simple. It make the apps half-interesting and half annoying. Because we're doing visual work, and the UI doesn't help, and can be so convoluted that we need more clicks to check or get results we can have more easily somewhere else.

 

So yes, this feature would be usefull, in the proprieties toolbar at the top and in the Transformation panel, and we don't always (or shouldn't) need to do a thesis to ask for something that fluidify worflows.