BUG - Text rendering on different scales

[new_user]

Hi!

I  have two problems:

1) Text (not rasterized) at a scale of 0-200% looks like a vector (absolutely crisp), but if I change the scale to 201%, the text starts to look like a raster (how it will look when exported to .png). 

 

2) When scaling in the range of 0-200%, the text (and other not rasterized objects) momentarily loses its quality (the feeling as if the display changes from vector to raster and vice versa). Changing performance preferences doesn't help.

 

MacOS 11.0.1, Affinity Photo 1.9.1

Edited March 13, 2021 by new_user

[new_user]

Does anyone have the same problem?

[new_user]

Nice product support!

[NotMyFault]

Hi @new_user,

 

it is by design (not a bug). And you will find similar rendering differences at many other places, most know when using unsharp mask or add noise (you need to use >=100 zoom to see the effect correctly).

And it depends on Preferences->Performance->Retina Rendering.

For diplay, all vector objects (like text) must be rasterized/pixelated. In your video we cannot see the scale of the text (aboslut pixel size).

Please try the following:

1. Make the ruler visible
2. Zoom in really large, e.g. 1000%
3. Resize the text frame slowly
4. You will see that the text is actually never 100% sharp. But as long as you stay at 100% zoom, the "retina" pixel density  of your display  will hide the pixelation (it becomes unnotivable, but is still there).

The image below shows:

• On the left, Retina Rendering ON
• On the right, Retina Rednering OFF
• Screen captures 100% / 199% / 200% / 201%
• Enlarged to 300%
• Again, none of the renders are pefrectly sharp. But if you do not zoom in to pixel peeping magnification, you cannot spot the difference.

Annother option to see the effect of rendering more clearly is to intentionally reduce your display resultion, e.g. to VGA 640x480 (or 800x600 which is the lowest for my 4K display). This will allow you to spot the effect already at 100% zoom (or even zommed out).

 

[walt.farrell]

19 hours ago, new_user said:

Nice product support!

From the top of this forum:

 

[walt.farrell]

On 3/13/2021 at 2:17 PM, new_user said:

1) Text (not rasterized) at a scale of 0-200% looks like a vector (absolutely crisp), but if I change the scale to 201%, the text starts to look like a raster (how it will look when exported to .png). 

What application are you using?

What OS?

[new_user]

16 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

What application are you using?

What OS?

MacOS 11.0.1, Affinity Photo 1.9.1

[walt.farrell]

14 minutes ago, new_user said:

MacOS 11.0.1, Affinity Photo 1.9.1

Thanks.

Affinity Photo (unlike Designer and Publisher) always uses a pixel-based display technology. Designer and Publisher support two view modes (Pixels, Vector).

Text will appear pixelated if you zoom in enough in Photo.

[new_user]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Thanks.

 

5 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

Hi @new_user,

1) Below are 4 screenshots of Photoshop and Affinity Photo comparison - Arial 10px.

At a scale >= 201, the text in both applications looks about the same, but at a scale <= 200 the Affinity Photo starts to display the text much clearer (more like a vector).

2) Take a look at the video below - after every square move text loses its sharpness for fraction of second.

 

[new_user]

I'm upset that you don't see this as a problem.

Thank you for providing trial access and I didn't have to buy your product.

[loukash]

1 hour ago, new_user said:

you don't see this as a problem

Because there's none:
Affinity Photo is an application for pixel based workflow. By design, everything you see on screen will be a pixel preview.

This is how it works on pre-retina displays:

At 100% (if pixel units active) or at Zoom > Pixel Size, your document pixel is the same as your display pixel. At 200%, your document pixel is 4 display pixels. And so on. Integer multiplications of 100% will be scaled. Values inbetween will be more antialiased to approximate the appearance. If you need precise pixel preview and alignment of text, use zoom factors of 100, 200, 300, 400 etc.

If you need "surgically precise" pixel alignment of text without antialiased edges, you may want to convert the text to curves and adjust each character manually to the pixel grid.

You appear to be using a Mac with a retina display (I don't have any). Affinity apps are retina aware, so in that case it might work slightly differently depending on your preference settings, as already pointed out by @NotMyFault. But I'm pretty sure that anyone who actually knows what they are doing will figure out the appropriate workflow quite quickly.

[new_user]

1) I'll tell you a secret - in the application, the scale is set to 200% (as opposed to the pre-retina), because at this scale the image looks like it will look on the website (the actual size if you attach the ruler to the screen). And it is at a scale of 200% that your application for some reason begins to render the text clearer/sharper (unlike Photoshop) than it actually is and will be in final png image

2) For some reason, you ignore the problem indicated in paragraph 2.

I have all the standard settings, both in Affinity and in Photoshop.

All your answers sound like I'm an idiot. And this is support for a paid product. Thank you, I made the appropriate conclusions.

[loukash]

1 minute ago, new_user said:

And this is support for a paid product.

You are aware that we are just plain users like you are, right? We're not being paid here. We're trying to be helpful.

2 minutes ago, new_user said:

I made the appropriate conclusions.

Same here.

[new_user]

9 minutes ago, loukash said:

You are aware that we are just plain users like you are, right?

This forum is the only place to report a problem with a paid product - https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/contact/

I don't care if you get paid or not. I want to pay for a product and report a bug in it, but instead I'm being held for an idiot by 2-3-4 line of support or plain users.

 

[lepr]

On 3/15/2021 at 10:17 PM, new_user said:

Does anyone have the same problem?

I see the same as you with Photo on my retina iMac: when view is <= 200%, vector objects are being rendered to display pixels instead of document pixels.

In other words, when view is <= 200%, Photo's view is like Designer's vector view mode.

[Andy05]

19 hours ago, new_user said:

This forum is the only place to report a problem with a paid product - https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/contact/

I don't care if you get paid or not. I want to pay for a product and report a bug in it, but instead I'm being held for an idiot by 2-3-4 line of support or plain users.

 

Well, firstly it's not (check the link you provided a bit more closely). 

Secondly (as you're nitpicking about the "correct" way to complain for your paid product): If you consider this a bug as stated in capital letters in the title, why didn't you start your post in the appropriate subforum?

You probably might have received similar responses over there, but ranting here with questionable attitude towards users who try to help you, appears as inappropriate to me. 

[Patrick Connor]

@new_user

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums   and sorry for the delay in formally replying to you. Thanks to some of the forum regulars who have been assisting thus far. 

The accurate anti-aliased rendering of text above retina resolutions is difficult to achieve, and what you are seeing is the on screen consequence of the algorithmic effects on antialiasing. The initial low resolution draw followed by a higher more accurate draw are what keeps Affinity rendering at high speed even with large complicated drawings. That fraction of a second low res draw is by design for zooming and panning purposes. Your concerns have been noted. Thanks for your report and your assistance in improving the Affinity suite.

[NotMyFault]

You can eliminate the anti-aliasing effect, for text and any other type of layer, by simply adding a prcedural texture filter with formula:

• A=sign(A-1/2)

Nest this PT filter to the layer where you want it.

• left: filter disabled
• right: filter active
• top: filter nested to layer (works)
• bottom: filter nested to group (does not work, another Photo bug).