ashf Posted May 7, 2020 Posted May 7, 2020 First of all, thank you for implementing Asian line breaking rules even though it's still immature. I will be reporting issues about it here. The first problem I found is that the rules don't work with directional quotation “” This is the rules that Microsoft Word uses Japanese Can not start line: !%),.:;?]}¢°’”‰′″℃、。々〉》」』】〕ぁぃぅぇぉっゃゅょゎ゛゜ゝゞァィゥェォッャュョヮヵヶ・ーヽヾ!%),.:;?]}。」、・ァィゥェォャュョッー゙゚¢ Can not end line: $([\{£¥‘“〈《「『【〔$([{「£¥ Chinese Can not start line: !%),.:;>?]}¢¨°·ˇˉ―‖’”…‰′″›℃∶、。〃〉》」』】〕〗〞︶︺︾﹀﹄﹚﹜﹞!"%'),.:;?]`|}~¢ Can not end line: $([{£¥·‘“〈《「『【〔〖〝﹙﹛﹝$(.[{£¥ This is Adobe's I guess this is better than Microsoft's since most designers are used to Adobe's And a reason it's slightly different from Microsoft's can be because Adobe targets Unicode only. Both Japanese & Chinese Can not start line: !),.:;?]}¢—’”‰℃℉、。々〉》」』】〕ぁぃぅぇぉっゃゅょゎ゛゜ゝゞァィゥェォッャュョヮヵヶ・ーヽヾ!%),.:;?]} Can not end line: ([{£§‘“〈《「『【〒〔#$(@[{¥ Inseparable character - can 't be broken when repeated like ……… —‥… Hanging punctuation - can stick out to outside of the text frame if it's at the right edge. 、。,. Patrick Connor 1 Quote
ashf Posted May 7, 2020 Author Posted May 7, 2020 The rules don't work with "・" symbol . it can't be be at the start of a line. Quote
ashf Posted May 7, 2020 Author Posted May 7, 2020 The rules don't work with percent symbols % and %it can't be be at the start of a line. Quote
ashf Posted May 7, 2020 Author Posted May 7, 2020 THIS ONE IS CRITICAL: Some of symbols and following symbols should break up. Did you set no-break rules for them? e.g. 今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」 it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up. Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols. !"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・ Quote
loyukfai Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 Thanks a lot @ashf, did some quick check with common punctuations I use and most, if not all, seem to working fine now. Haven't done in-depth layout test but at least the punctuation marks are not appearing at the wrong places... Kudos to Affinity team and if anything you want me to help testing, please don't hesitate to let me know. Cheers. Patrick Connor and ashf 1 1 Quote
ashf Posted May 13, 2020 Author Posted May 13, 2020 @GabeWould you be able to disclose all characters that's being targeted on Asian line breaking rules? So It makes it easier for me to test the rules and give you an opinion. loyukfai 1 Quote
Staff Gabe Posted May 14, 2020 Staff Posted May 14, 2020 We can't provide a list with these at the moment. Sorry Quote
ashf Posted May 14, 2020 Author Posted May 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Gabe said: We can't provide a list with these at the moment. Sorry a forum user omachi provided test result here(in Japanese) and it seems that there are many characters that's not targeted.https://cs5.xyz/blog/2020/05/ap184kin_main.html But on my side, some characters seems to be targeted despite his result. so I wanted to confirm it. loyukfai and Patrick Connor 1 1 Quote
loyukfai Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 9 hours ago, ashf said: a forum user omachi provided test result here(in Japanese) and it seems that there are many characters that's not targeted.https://cs5.xyz/blog/2020/05/ap184kin_main.html But on my side, some characters seems to be targeted despite his result. so I wanted to confirm it. Kudos to the forum user, it's so comprehensive. Cheers. ashf 1 Quote
ashf Posted June 18, 2020 Author Posted June 18, 2020 On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said: THIS ONE IS CRITICAL: Some of symbols and following symbols should break up. Did you set no-break rules for them? e.g. 今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」 it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up. Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols. !"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・ Most of thing I posted here except directional quote haven't been fixed in 1.8.4.663 Especially unwanted no-break rule above need to be fixed asap. loyukfai 1 Quote
loyukfai Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 9:54 PM, Gabe said: We can't provide a list with these at the moment. Sorry Understand from the development standpoint, but if Serif is serious about tackling the issue, either you have to hire an expert/consultant on this topic, and/or work more transparently or actively with users like @ashf. Personally I'm impressed by the work @ashf and the Japanese Affinity userbase has done what's basically free QA for Serif. You don't find it in other places very often. Given time, people will lose interest, give up and move on. Just my 2 cents. ashf, Seneca and debraspicher 3 Quote
loyukfai Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 Is the changes already implemented or we're still waiting for the next release? Cheers. Quote
loyukfai Posted August 8, 2020 Posted August 8, 2020 https://affinityspotlight.com/article/affinity-184-updates-available-now No mention of improved Asian punctuation support aside from "Chinese Font names now show in Chinese", but a brief test seems to show that some improvements have been made. Cheers. Quote
Staff Patrick Connor Posted August 8, 2020 Staff Posted August 8, 2020 Improvements have been made to the code in terms of some automation, but we acknowledge that the full solution will take some time and so for now did not put the change in the marketing "fix" list, but yes it's better than 1.8.3 loyukfai and ashf 2 Quote Patrick Connor Serif Europe Ltd Latest V2 releases on each platform Help make our apps better by joining our beta program! "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self." W. L. Sheldon
ashf Posted August 9, 2020 Author Posted August 9, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 5:42 AM, Patrick Connor said: Improvements have been made to the code in terms of some automation, but we acknowledge that the full solution will take some time and so for now did not put the change in the marketing "fix" list, but yes it's better than 1.8.3 Thank you.Would you fix the no-break rule problem I posted above in the next update which is critical. I confirmed that it hasn't been fixed. Quote
kotobuki Posted August 9, 2020 Posted August 9, 2020 FYI: Another resource for Japanese text layout Requirements for Japanese Text Layout (W3C Working Group Note 3 April 2012) https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/ This document is mainly based on Japanese Industrial Standards JIS X 4051. It is very useful and reliable. Line breaking rules are describers in section 3.1. And the appendix C is also important. Patrick Connor 1 Quote
ashf Posted February 8, 2021 Author Posted February 8, 2021 On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said: THIS ONE IS CRITICAL: Some of symbols and following symbols should break up. Did you set no-break rules for them? e.g. 今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」 it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up. Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols. !"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・ Please fix this unwanted no-break rule. I confirmed that this still exists in 1.9. Quote
ashf Posted May 21, 2021 Author Posted May 21, 2021 On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said: THIS ONE IS CRITICAL: Some of symbols and following symbols should break up. Did you set no-break rules for them? e.g. 今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」 it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up. Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols. !"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・ This still exists in 1.9.4 beta. Welkin 1 Quote
ashf Posted July 6, 2021 Author Posted July 6, 2021 On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said: THIS ONE IS CRITICAL: Some of symbols and following symbols should break up. Did you set no-break rules for them? e.g. 今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」 it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up. Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols. !"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・ Still the same in 1.10 beta (1.10.0.1103) Quote
ashf Posted January 26, 2022 Author Posted January 26, 2022 On 5/6/2020 at 11:18 PM, ashf said: THIS ONE IS CRITICAL: Some of symbols and following symbols should break up. Did you set no-break rules for them? e.g. 今日は天気ですね。「おはようございます」 it seems that "。" and "「" are always together side by side without breaking up. Also it seems that it's applied to these symbols that should break up with following symbols. !"):;>?]}’”〉》」』】〕〟!),.?]}。」、・ Still the same in 1.10.5. PaoloT 1 Quote
ashf Posted October 11, 2022 Author Posted October 11, 2022 Please implement these rules at least before the next update if implementing whole rules I mentioned above takes a time. Brackets and punctuations which are the most important characters for the line breaking rules. (some of them are already working though.)Can not start line:!),.:;?]}’”′″、。〉》」』】〕・!),.:;?]}。」・ーーThese of the above list seems to be not yet included in the rules. ,:;′″・:;・ーー Then please included these after that. Can not start line: ¢‰℃℉々ぁぃぅぇぉっゃゅょゎ゛゜ゝゞァィゥェォッャュョヮヵヶヽヾ% Can not end line: £§〒#$@¥ Quote
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