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h_d

Apple Photos round-tripping

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I know there's another thread about this, but it has got muddied with recommendations for other software, requests for DAMs, issues with opening images from the Media 'folder' in the Open dialog sidebar...

So hopefully to get things back on track, this is my experience with round-tripping from Apple Photos 5.0 running in macOS Catalina (a developer beta) into Affinity Photo Beta 1.8.163 and back again.

I am using a 2019 MacBook Pro 15" with Radeon Pro Vega 20 GPU. All these tests were conducted on .jpg format originals.

On installation, there are six standalone Affinity extensions, plus "Edit in Affinity Photo", all flagged with the BETA icon and available from within Apple Photos' editing suite:

471069249_Screenshot2020-01-10at20_05_24.thumb.png.4b1c19973d8f4faa04876e184afb00ae.png

As far as I can see, Affinity Develop, Affinity Monochrome, Affinity Retouch, Affinity Haze Removal and Affinity Liquify all work as expected. Edits are saved when committed and are carried through to Apple Photos'  main display, with the "Edited" icon visible in the top right-hand corner of each edited image. Images edited with these extensions can be reverted to the original in An apple Photos' edit suite.

Affinity Miniature is buggy, on my machine at least. When first launched, it displays the controls for "Elliptical" while the "Tilt" button is highlighted:

1562455566_Screenshot2020-01-10at20_16_17.thumb.png.3d75e5a8e31322f06d52b1b67c5ea471.png

Clicking and dragging on the control nodes over the image, and on the sliders to the side, frequently has no effect, or at least the response is unusably slow. Saving and returning to Apple Photos takes far longer than I would expect (up to the point I would almost consider a force quit) but does eventually save the image correctly.

Edit in Affinity Photo works correctly, but only if the image is flattened before saving back to Apple Photos. 

Clicking Save Changes when returning to Apple Photos, having edited and saved an Affinity Photo session with adjustment layers, live filters, layer effects, masks or additional pixel or shape layers leads to the following sequence of dialogs in Apple Photos:

1006219803_Screenshot2020-01-11at09_04_52.thumb.png.fbe286159ddd0c83e73e59fd1c80eb32.png

then

450011389_Screenshot2020-01-11at08_49_10.thumb.png.a0fcaa2a1dca0683042aa9cc2fceab9b.png

Clicking OK at this point returns the user to the Apple Photos editing suite without applying any changes to the image.

Similarly, any image which has been cropped during an Edit in Affinity Photo session will not save back into Apple Photos unless it has been manually flattened before saving in Affinity Photo. Same outcome as above.

My impression is that previous versions of Affinity Photo may have "silently" flattened images before saving back into Apple Photos. This doesn't appear to be happening in 1.8. But of course my impression may be wrong.

The alternative way of round-tripping is to Edit with Affinity Photo (not "in")  via the contextual menu (or Command + Enter) from Apple Photos' image listing:

567618328_Screenshot2020-01-11at09_14_31.thumb.png.d0a56d1126d91dcea0990615230eef6d.png

As far as I can see, no edits made and saved in Affinity Photo using this method are saved back to Apple Photos. During the Affinity Photos editing session, the file name in the contextual menu gives the original document name (not "Apple Photos Document" as when editing via an extension):

1543700006_Screenshot2020-01-11at09_23_48.png.a8179eaa96dffeeb39367674e71ed0ba.png  vs 1108634697_Screenshot2020-01-11at09_26_28.png.6ba856fd6dec0414c1ee0bd1d43a597c.png   

It does not display the Apple Photos' "internal" file name either (something like "C0C8960B-C98C-454E-8CF6-E922274D7D27.jpg"). And the original file (P1000554.jpg ing my case) does not appear in Affinity Photos' File - Open Recent menu or in its equivalent in the MacBook Pro TouchBar. It's as if the file was never edited at all.

Hope this helps - thanks for a great product!

H

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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Also...

If I open an image in Affinity Photo Beta 1.8.0.163, add adjustment layers and live filters, and then save, I get the following alert:

1475362362_Screenshot2020-01-11at12_51_02.thumb.png.d06d0cf9e8ef0d3d112d04cfb0cb9993.png

 

If I use the Edit in Affinity Photo extension to apply similar edits, and then save, I do not get the alert

1345582035_Screenshot2020-01-11at13_00_39.thumb.png.d48f97379817a5302b3c0183e7962d0a.png

(Above is a screen grab of no alert :S)


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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39 minutes ago, h_d said:

If I open an image in Affinity Photo Beta 1.8.0.163 ...

Do you mean you are opening an image document stored in an Apple Photos library via one of the extension or the 'round drip' methods, or opening a 'flat' image file (like a JPEG) stored elsewhere?

If it is the latter I think the alert is the same as it always has been.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 14.0.1

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The latter, and yes, I think that alert has always been there - the point I was making is that there is no such alert when saving a layered file during a round trip.

 

 


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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31 minutes ago, h_d said:

The latter, and yes, I think that alert has always been there - the point I was making is that there is no such alert when saving a layered file during a round trip.

So if you manually flatten the image while in the AP beta, does that also fail to send the edited version back to Apple Photos?

Also, do any of the AP 'in place' extensions (like "Affinity Retouch") work for you?


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 14.0.1

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16 minutes ago, R C-R said:

So if you manually flatten the image while in the AP beta, does that also fail to send the edited version back to Apple Photos?

 

No, as per my original post, if I manually flatten an image at the end of an editing session using the Edit in Affinity Photo extension, and then save, the edited version is successfully sent  back to Apple Photos.

16 minutes ago, R C-R said:

 Also, do any of the AP 'in place' extensions (like "Affinity Retouch") work for you?

Yes, as per my original post, they all work well with the exception of Affinity Miniature which is pretty buggy, but still saves back.

It may or may not be relevant, but I have disabled the 1.7 extensions in System Preferences.


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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9 minutes ago, h_d said:

... as per my original post ...

Doh! I had two browser tabs open, both on topics about issues with Catalina & Apple Photos, & I stupidly confused who was reporting what in each of them. :$

Sorry for asking again for what you already clearly reported. O.o


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 14.0.1

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No problem - glad to clarify in any case! :)


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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I just tried selecting a photo in Photos, Clicked Edit, used button to select Edit in Affinity Photo (beta), in APh I added an adjustment layer (curves), added a Live Filter (Gaussian Blur), clicked Save, closed the window, returned to Photos, clicked the Save button, all changes were there. Clicked the Done button in Photos edit mode and returned to the Photos browser and all changes were there. Didn't need to do any flattening.

I realize that this was not extensive testing by any means, so not completely indicative of issues in the beta, but adding layers and round-tripping worked in this case. Not sure why, but thought I would at least let you know. This is in Mojave with Metal, so can't speak to Catalina issues. 


--------------------

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019 i9 72GB) • Radeon Pro Vega 48 8GB • macOS Catalina

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One more observation...

If I run an Edit in Affinity Photo session and add to the image's metadata (specifically its IPTC Location and Region) then it will not save back into Apple Photos, unless it is flattened and saved in Affinity Photo. And if I run a second Edit in Affinity Photo session on the same image, my amendments to the IPTC are no longer visible.


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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29 minutes ago, MEB said:

Please check your PM's.

Done!


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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On 1/11/2020 at 9:43 AM, h_d said:

The alternative way of round-tripping is to Edit with Affinity Photo (not "in")  via the contextual menu (or Command + Enter) from Apple Photos' image listing:

567618328_Screenshot2020-01-11at09_14_31.thumb.png.d0a56d1126d91dcea0990615230eef6d.png

As far as I can see, no edits made and saved in Affinity Photo using this method are saved back to Apple Photos. 

I was wrong about this. Again, if I flatten manually then edits made using the Edit With command are in fact saved back to Apple Photos.


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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11 minutes ago, h_d said:

I was wrong about this. Again, if I flatten manually then edits made using the Edit With command are in fact saved back to Apple Photos.

Is this with a developer version of Apple Photos, Catalina, or both?

Have you done any tests with this Photos beta & the retail versions of the Apple software?


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 14.0.1

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Hi h_d,
Regarding the Miniature extension, i confirm the nodes on the Elliptical and Tilt controls on canvas are finicky/hard to operate and the UI button on the right isn't correctly highlighted however i'm not having issues with the sliders on the right - they are all working correctly for me - I've logged the nodes and button issues. Is it possible the image you used for testing isn't the most suited for testing vibrance and clarity edits due to minor/barely visible changes on screen? Have you tried with other images? Enabling Split View on the bottom right of the interface should help you evaluable/check for differences better.

Thanks for your feedback/reports.

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Hi @MEB

The sliders on the right do work - it's just that once the nodes have "stuck", as they did with me yesterday, the sliders also became impossible to move. 

Typical though - I can't make it go wrong today, everything is sliding nicely. Although it still seems very slow to save.


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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2 hours ago, R C-R said:

Is this with a developer version of Apple Photos, Catalina, or both?

Have you done any tests with this Photos beta & the retail versions of the Apple software?

a) Developer version of Catalina and the associated version of Apple Photos (still at version 5.0, as it has been for some months with release builds as well). Probably can't say much more or Cupertino will start waving an NDA at me. O.o

b) No - and I'm not currently in a position to do so.


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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Hi - I know this is being covered in the other thread https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/91443-affinity-photo-has-stopped-saving-directly-back-into-mac-os-photos/&page=9 but I couldn't see a reference here to the fact that the Affinity Develop option is not working for RAW, which presumably is its main purpose.  Gives the familiar error attached.  This was using a .RAF file on an iMac.

Screenshot 2020-01-20 at 18.58.22.png

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2 hours ago, AndyA said:

the Affinity Develop option is not working for RAW

You can get round this in the Beta by running the Edit in Affinity Photo extension. With a Raw file, this takes you into the Develop Persona. Once you've made your edits, click Develop, then in the Photos Persona, edit further if you wish, flatten, save and close.

Given the additional editing controls in the Develop Persona compared with those available in the Affinity Develop extension, I personally think this is a more flexible and powerful option in any case.


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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9 hours ago, h_d said:

You can get round this in the Beta by running the Edit in Affinity Photo extension. With a Raw file, this takes you into the Develop Persona. Once you've made your edits, click Develop, then in the Photos Persona, edit further if you wish, flatten, save and close.

Given the additional editing controls in the Develop Persona compared with those available in the Affinity Develop extension, I personally think this is a more flexible and powerful option in any case.

Thanks, I agree on that albeit requires more clicks etc, so long as Affinity are aware the develop extension isn't working for RAW.  With the Edit in Affinity Photo option I am getting a "16MB change limit exceeded" message, even after flattening the file, are you seeing the same?  Maybe it's the expected behaviour.  Thanks.

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42 minutes ago, AndyA said:

I am getting a "16MB change limit exceeded" message

I've seen that occasionally in previous versions, and I think it's been reported on these forums. I'm not sure if it's an Apple Photos message or an Affinity Photo message, but as far as I can tell it doesn't affect the outcome.


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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I appear to be having a similar issue with "Edit with Affinity Photo". I edited the photo with clone tools and straighten, but then get ...

2115078236_Screenshot2020-01-26at18_13_05.png.c0705103489d753a66616de56f17f29f.png

and then

1006435056_Screenshot2020-01-26at18_13_20.png.bf1cb9335ef608f349e721877a2c7d3d.png

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That's not the beta version, though (you can tell from the application icon). Many have reported issues with the release build of Affinity Photo and recent versions of macOS. The beta version is a lot closer to prime time... but not quite.


Affinity Photo 1.8.6,  Affinity Designer 1.8.6, Affinity Publisher 1.8.6, Mac OSX 11.0.1, 2018 MacBook Pro 15"

Betas as they happen... 

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3 hours ago, psheld said:

I appear to be having a similar issue with "Edit with Affinity Photo"

As @h_d mentioned, you are not using the beta version of AP. You are also using the "Edit in Affinity Photo" extension, not "Edit with Affinity Photo." (They are two different things.)

FWIW, "Edit in Affinity Photo" is working fine for me on my iMac running Mojave (macOS 10.14.6). The 'unable to save' issue with the "Edit in Affinity Photo" extension seems to be confined to macOS 10.15 Catalina.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 40GB RAM; macOS 10.15.6
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 14.0.1

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Although I import my photos to Apple Photos and develop RAW files with Affinity Photo, I have not done so directly, but export the RAW file and open it in Affinity Photo.  Can somebody who is developing a RAW file with Affinity Photo directly in Apple Photo please tell me what happens to the original RAW file when I save the developed and possibly edited photo in Affinity Photo and return to Apple Photo?  Is the RAW file still available, or do I have to somehow "undo" the work I did on it with Affinity Photo and revert back to the original RAW file?  If the latter, then I submit that this is not correct behavior.  Yes, it is exactly what happens with film, I can only develop a film once.  On the other hand, in that regard digital development has a chance to improve on analog by offering the possibility to develop the same RAW file in various different ways,

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