Accented Characters outside Text Frame

[Nieck]

Hello, can someone please tell me where I can find the option that my accented characters stay inside the text frame?

The blue line is my text frame.

Thank you

[Nieck]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I work currently in Affinity Publisher on a Mac.

[firstdefence]

Probably adjust the Base Line under the Character Panel.

[Old Bruce]

I would use the Text Frame and adjust the top inset, this is with 36 point type and so smaller type smaller offset. 

[Nieck]

Thank you both for this answer, but it is not what I am looking for. In InDesign it is done by default, depended of the typeface used. In both suggestions the distances would differ between the different typefaces and needs calculating the moment the typeface change. Is there not a way AP does this also by default?

[firstdefence]

Actually Indesign has the accent of a capital letter partially out of the text frame.

[MikeW]

24 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

Actually Indesign has the accent of a capital letter partially out of the text frame.

Looks like the image from:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign/character-accents-outside-of-text-frame/td-p/10840760

It depends on the font metrics as to if and/or how much accented characters and or say a script font sticks up out of a frame.

[Old Bruce]

1 hour ago, Nieck said:

can someone please tell me where I can find the option that my accented characters stay inside the text frame?

Have you tried turning on the text frame's Align to Baseline option?

[Nieck]

firstdefence and MikeW:

That is true, but the same typeface in InDesign CS5 gives me the result you can see in the enclosed screenshot. As you can see the accents are a small bit above the text frame. That is were I am after.

 

Old Bruce:

Thanks, that is a good thought, but that gives me a lot of other problems. The size of the characters is in this example 72pt. When I use the baseline grid as you suggest, it has to be 21pt otherwise the accentends are still outside the textframe. 21pt for regular typesetting in a book is to much. I could also define a startposition at the top of the textframe, unfortunatly that does not work. If my grid is 10pt (most average that I use), the start position can go to 18pt and the accents are still outside the textframe.

 

I am not sure if there is a (for me) good working solution at this point in the development of Publisher, but I keep hope.

[firstdefence]

Hi @MikeW Yes I made that post because I wanted to find out how the inDesigners would handle the issue and the suggestions they would come up with. Never hurts to get opinions from different sources 

59 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Looks like the image from:

Other way round 

 

[Old Bruce]

What is your leading for the 72 pt example.

What I do is use exact leading not default or %. I find it gives me more control over the location of ascenders/descenders.

Is this a Paragraph decoration or a headline style? More information about the context would help us more.

[Nieck]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

What is your leading for the 72 pt example.

What I do is use exact leading not default or %. I find it gives me more control over the location of ascenders/descenders.

Is this a Paragraph decoration or a headline style? More information about the context would help us more.

The leading is on default, I have the idea – but correct me if I an wrong – default gives me the leading that is built in in the typeface.

I am testing the vertical metrics of a new typeface and noticed that in Publisher nothing changed, while in InDesign the characters did what I was after. I like to have that result also i Publisher, but maybe that is not possible yet.

[MikeW]

17 minutes ago, Nieck said:

firstdefence and MikeW:

That is true, but the same typeface in InDesign CS5 gives me the result you can see in the enclosed screenshot. As you can see the accents are a small bit above the text frame. That is were I am after.

 

Old Bruce:

Thanks, that is a good thought, but that gives me a lot of other problems. The size of the characters is in this example 72pt. When I use the baseline grid as you suggest, it has to be 21pt otherwise the accentends are still outside the textframe. 21pt for regular typesetting in a book is to much. I could also define a startposition at the top of the textframe, unfortunatly that does not work. If my grid is 10pt (most average that I use), the start position can go to 18pt and the accents are still outside the textframe.

 

I am not sure if there is a (for me) good working solution at this point in the development of Publisher, but I keep hope.

Could you mention the font name and provide an ID file or idml of your example?

[Nieck]

The name of the font Typist, but is at this moment in development, so not yet available for the market. That is why I am busy testing in several programmas. I do not mind submit an ID file or idml file but that does not make sense without the font i guess.

[v_kyr]

4 minutes ago, Nieck said:

The name of the font Typist, but is at this moment in development, so not yet available for the market.

?

• Typist
• Typist Regular
• Font Typist
• etc.

[Old Bruce]

4 minutes ago, Nieck said:

... but that does not make sense without the font i guess.

I don't know if you intended humour but thank you for my morning laugh.

Context is key so thanks for the heads up about the font.

I must reiterate that you may want to use exact leading simply because every application's default is going to be different. 

[Nieck]

Just now, v_kyr said:

?

• Typist
• Typist Regular
• Font Typist
• etc.

Sorry, what do you mean?

[MikeW]

1 minute ago, Nieck said:

The name of the font Typist, but is at this moment in development, so not yet available for the market. That is why I am busy testing in several programmas. I do not mind submit an ID file or idml file but that does not make sense without the font i guess.

Yep, no sense without the font. I too develop fonts. To resolve certain issues in applications, I have provided test copies to different software makers, including @Dave Harris at Serif. Do consider that route.

But, fwiw, Adobe applications do things with fonts other software companies do not / cannot do because they bypass the OS font subsystem to read fonts, including the metrics, and "make up" their own values. So it may be that the OS is passing the winAssent and/or the TypoAscender value (don't know which or both Serif is using) and deciding the baseline calculation position based on that.

[Nieck]

2 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Yep, no sense without the font. I too develop fonts. To resolve certain issues in applications, I have provided test copies to different software makers, including @Dave Harris at Serif. Do consider that route.

Oh, this is great, thank you! Nice to know more font developers are on this forum.

 

5 minutes ago, MikeW said:

But, fwiw, Adobe applications do things with fonts other software companies do not / cannot do because they bypass the OS font subsystem to read fonts, including the metrics, and "make up" their own values. So it may be that the OS is passing the winAssent and/or the TypoAscender value (don't know which or both Serif is using) and deciding the baseline calculation position based on that. 

I will ask Dave Harris how Serif handles these issues around the metrics values. This is of great help, thank you!

[kenmcd]

2 minutes ago, Nieck said:

I will ask Dave Harris how Serif handles these issues around the metrics values

I too would like a detailed explanation on that.

It appears that Affinity is using the metrics as designed in the font.
Which means if Use Typo Metrics is Off, they use the Win metrics on Windows and the Mac metrics on Mac.
If Use Typo Metrics is On, they use the Typo metrics.

If I remember correctly InDesign uses the Typo metrics regardless of the settings in the font.

It would be really nice to know exactly how this is done in APub.

 

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, Nieck said:

Sorry, what do you mean?

Didn't you said "so not yet available for the market", thus I wonder there are overall some initial typefaces under that "Typist" name available for download.

[Old Bruce]

14 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Didn't you said "so not yet available for the market", thus I wonder there are overall some initial typefaces under that "Typist" name available for download.

My name is Bruce, there are a lot of us with that name. Same as with fonts.

[MikeW]

24 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

My name is Bruce, there are a lot of us with that name. Same as with fonts.

Hah! Even if we were to meet in real life, I probably would always refer to you as Old Bruce. Dunno if there are that many people who are named that...

[v_kyr]

2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

My name is Bruce, there are a lot of us with that name. Same as with fonts.

BruceWayne, BruceWillis, BruceLee, OldBruce, well somehow makes a difference to me. - Further if one and the same fontnames are used for different font families, it's pretty hard to differentiate among those without some additional key differentiator. ;-)

[Old Bruce]

You forgot Bruce Dern, to my knowledge the only actor to kill John Wayne on-screen. (The Cowboys)