Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Bryce

Invert not working as expected

Recommended Posts

I was initially trying to colorize the logo like I would a 1 bit tiff in Indesign. However, that doesn't work in Affinity.

So I used the tool called rasterize to mask and set the document to 1200 DPI and added a gold background to simulate the color through the mask. I was actually impressed with it until I realized the logo was actually inverted. So i thought I would just invert the logo before rasterizing to mask. Unfortunately I found the invert doesn't work right. I must be doing something wrong.

Here is the course I'm taking:

1. the vector logo I use the raster function when I right click.

2. I go the layer selection and choose the layer selection and choose invert.

I would think that what was black and would be white and what is white would be black. but that doesn't work. It turns it to a dark gray background. 

See here:1861724684_ScreenShot2019-12-04at4_56_18PM.thumb.jpg.ea6d0040ebd025096ca1584b5737b07b.jpg

The image on the right is told to be inverted, but clearly it is not.

The image on the left is the normal logo that I want to be inverted. 

they both are sitting on the gray pasteboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would need to see the original file of the logo, the colours of the image you included are not Black and White but shades of grey, then there is what ever transparency is in the original.


MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012) Mac OS 10.12.6 || Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 10.14.5

Affinity Designer 1.7.3 | Affinity Photo 1.7.3 | Affinity Publisher 1.7.3 | Affinity Designer Beta 1.8.0.2 | Affinity Photo Beta 1.8.0.163 | Affinity Publisher Beta 1.8.0.531

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you are expecting a result more like this...
Screen-Shot-2019-12-05-at-07-19-33.png

 


iMac 27" Late 2015 Fully Loaded, iMac 27" Mid 2011 both running High Sierra 10.13.6 - Affinity Designer/Photo & Publisher - Illustrator CC, Inkscape, Blender, Sketchup, Pepakura Designer, MTC, Pixelmator & Pixelmator Pro + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 B|  

Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Designer AFAI can tell the Invert layer mask function has always a tendency to use/convert to a graylevel instead, thus you may need to make a color adjustment (gray to black/white) afterwards.

ohio_color.jpg.b148386ae7bbba60e9098d0383203231.jpg


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So here is what I am getting with the different options:

183634584_ScreenShot2019-12-05at12_02_28PM.thumb.jpg.3575b1b2cb56b33488de9aad3890a020.jpg

The inverted in photoshop is what I would expect of a straight invert. i can't seem to get it to work.

First Defense: You are close but the I can see a difference between the lines and the background.

@Old Bruce: Yes, it is all black and white. There is no gray. The gray you see comes from the background pasteboard. Or I should say, "There should be no gray." I'm not exactly sure what Affinity does with the 1 bit files because it does seem to change them from black to a combination making black.

 

@v_kyryou have produced the look I am going for, but I'm not sure how you got there. Wass it as simple as clicking invert?

Coming from years of using Photoshop, what I expect as invert, just isn't the same and something I need to relearn.

thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so considering this is not done with the original file but from the example in the first post which has no true blacks or whites, I get what I would expect after hitting ‘Invert’.
So, what is different in the original file?

PauldingInverted.jpg.dd857ba1d07ea1783223e143ddc5ac48.jpg


macOS 10.14.6  15" Macbook Pro, 2017  |  4 Core i7 3.1GHz CPU  |  Radeon Pro 555 2GB GPU + Integrated Intel HD Graphics 630 1.536GB  |  16GB RAM  |  Wacom Intuos4 M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bryce said:

you have produced the look I am going for, but I'm not sure how you got there. Wass it as simple as clicking invert?

No. - AFAI remember the steps I made were ...

  • I've traced your initial left side logo with a tracing tool setup as 8 graylevel colors to vectors.
  • Then I opened the resulting vector trace in AD and inspected the 8 vector layers the tracer produced.
  • One of the 8 layers was the probably unneeded gray, the one of your image background, I've removed that layer.
  • I added/combined all 7 remaining vector layers together into one single layer for easier handling.
  • I've performed the AD "Layer > New Adjustment > Invert" and the result was a gray colored layer, so no deep black.
  • I've selected the layer and changed the gray color to black via the color panel.

All in all somehow like this (AFAI remember, thus no guarantee).


☛ Affinity Designer 1.7.3 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.7.3 ◆ OSX El Capitan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Bryce said:

So here is what I am getting with the different options:

Not much to add except "me too".

It's actually the first thing I've tried on Affinity Photo and I had to go straight back to Photoshop bcause I was getting almost identical results to you with Invert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple numeric inversion of channel values typically produces highly varied results depending on color spaces involved.

Here is an example of the "200 years" gray from the screenshot included in the first post represented in RGB and CMYK color values and then mechanically inverted (the RGB version without effect as the document itself was in CMYK color mode so the RGB value inversion could not be done):

grayconversions_cmyk.jpg.4a5178dcd5cb78e6b663f9a87b237beb.jpg

The third gray is a spotcolor Cool Gray 10 C from the latest Pantone library, and its adjustment based inversion. 

Here are the same colors when a generic "Black and white" adjustment is applied on top of the image stack:

grayconversions_bw.jpg.16102bc67c708bbaf18dfb447a7667e7.jpg

Without having the original vector art available, we can only guess why most of the dark grays of the original image were converted to dark grays also in the inverted image, but one possible explanation is that the original image used spot color based grays. They are typically inverted by using their CMYK equivalents, and they (even adjacent grays and blacks) convert into highly varied tinted (reddish/brownish/greenish/bluish) grays when inversion is applied in CMYK mode, also in Photoshop.When forced into grayscale, they would produce seemingly irrational inverted values of the original grays and blacks.

UPDATE: The more likely explanation is though that the image was in CMYK mode and K100 blacks have been inverted to C100M100Y100K0.

In such conditions it is often useful to do the inversion by using the Curves (using the Gray curve) with a reversed curve, and then increase the contrast and reduce middle grays by using the Levels adjustment (again, the Gray curve). Or simply just convert the image to RGB or Grayscale mode and invert only after that.

Black_inversions.afdesign

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The image itself was vector lines and fills at 100% black and instead of going through each one by one and changing them to white I thought I could use the option to rasterize and do it all at once. Once rasterized I thought it would be easy to change color or invert. For some reason neither is easy to do when something has been rasterized in Affinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Bryce said:

For some reason neither is easy to do when something has been rasterized in Affinity.

It is similar in Photoshop. It all depends on the color mode. The following conversions have been done in Photoshop. Note how pure RGB black converts to rich black when performng a color conversion from RGB to CMYK, making inversion of "black" to "brown", and how conversion of pure 100K black is inverted as gray in CMYK mode, and converts to dark gray when converted to RGB, and produces light gray when inverted. Only RGB000 in RGB mode converts to pure white RGB255255255, and CMYK 100,100,100,100 in CMYK mode to pure white CMYK 0,0,0,0:

ps_inversions.jpg.bc64c93b1f650e54587c12d29239b25a.jpg

It seems you made the inversion of the rasterized vector graphics in CMYK mode, so the original K100 values were inverted to dark gray where C, M and Y values are 100, and K value 0. Converting the image into RGB mode, running level adjustment to increase the contrast (decrease middle tones), and inverting only after that, would have produced the expected result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

Please note the Annual Company Closure section in the Terms of Use. These are the Terms of Use you will be asked to agree to if you join the forum. | Privacy Policy | Guidelines | We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.