Full/partial object selection

[Yannick Gaultier]

Hi,

Been using Designer for a few days now and really happy with my purchase. One thing that bugs me is the that one can select entirely selected objects or partially selected objects but switching from one mode to the other requires changing a setting in configuration.

Could it be considered what Illustrator (have not used in years but I think I remember it does) and others are doing which is to:

- select only entirely selected objects when selection is performed from left to right

- select fully selected and partially selected objects when selection is performed from right to left.

Attaching a small screen capture to illustrate how it works.

I have found it to be very convenient and fast when selecting multiple objects in more complex designs. I have searched this forum a lot thinking it might already be possible, to no avail. Please let me know if I just missed it.

Cheers

 

 

[Alfred]

I think you should find that you can toggle the behaviour ‘on the fly’ by holding down the Ctrl key on a Mac or by pressing the right and left mouse buttons simultaneously as you drag on Windows.

[Yannick Gaultier]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. I am on Windows and I am afraid trying to select with both buttons does not perform partial object selection (that actually does not select anything).

Just in case, I also tried to select objects with CTRL, ALT,  SHIFT and their combinations but they do not do anything either for partial object selection when "Select object when intersects with selection marquee" is disabled in AD Preferences.

I also tried enabling "Select object when intersects with selection marquee" and using either CTRL, SHIFT or ALT, or selecting with both mouse buttons but that does not toggle the selection operation mode either.

 

 

[MEB]

Hi Yannick Gaultier,
Welcome to Affinity Forums
Don't use any modifier keys for this. Assuming you have Select object when intersects with selection marquee unticked in Preferences, start dragging normally with the left mouse button around the objects you want - if you want to include partially covered objects as well press the right mouse button while you still have the left mouse button down (for dragging) - it should then include partially covered objects in the selection (if you release just the right mouse button it excludes partially covered objects again).

[Yannick Gaultier]

Hi @MEB

Thanks, this works and I checked it also works the other way around, when Select object when intersects with selection marquee  is disabled. This is actually a bit cumbersome to do to be honest

Any reason to not use a simple keyboard modifier or use the same convention as Illustrator, Krita, etc? Can either solution be implemented? that way you could get rid of the "Select object when intersects with selection marquee" setting entirely.

I assume the CTRL modifier on Mac is because there's no right button there. Keeping the same solution on both systems would make sense. And actually switching selection mode based on selection direction could be used on all systems, regardless of mouse type (Mac/windows) or lack of mouse (IPad).

Cheers

[MEB]

Hi Yannick Gaultier,
Yes if Select object when intersects with selection marquee is ticked it works the other way around. Regarding the modifiers, actually it's the opposite: we use ctrl on Mac because it provides four modifier keys whereas Windows only provide three - so we run out of modifiers to use on Windows in this case.

[PaulEC]

9 minutes ago, MEB said:

Windows only provide three

Obviously "Ctrl", "Shift" and "Alt",  but what about "AltGr"?

It can be used for shortcuts, couldn't it be used as a modifier?

[Yannick Gaultier]

Hi @MEB

Quote

Regarding the modifiers, actually it's the opposite: we use ctrl on Mac because it provides four modifier keys whereas Windows only provide three - so we run out of modifiers to use on Windows in this case.

Which would then make the case for getting rid of modifiers for this particular use case:

- same selection method on all platforms

- free one modifier for any other use

- arguably easier to use than a modifier as selection mode can be toggled without the need of anything else but the mouse. Certainly easier to use than the right-click modifier on windows.

Cheers

[MEB]

Hi PaulEC, Yannick Gaultier,
I will check about the possibility to use AltGr.

@Yannick Gaultier
It's not that simple unfortunately. Besides the coding work, changes like those would imply modifications to the Help files, video tutorials, the (printed) Workbooks and also change the workflow users are already used to. Besides that some users may actually prefer/find the modifiers way more direct/intuitive. It's no easy to find a solution that pleases everyone.

[Yannick Gaultier]

@MEB

Quote

would imply modifications to the Help files, video tutorials, the (printed) Workbooks

I'm a developer myself so I know that all too well (although we've never produced an actual printed user manual ).

Actually, the left/right toggle could have 2 more arguments going for it (promise, I'll stop there!):

- help file and video tutorials do not mention your right-click modifier (I searched for that information) so most people would actually think this is simply not possible - which is bad

- people coming from Illustrator (you know, that subscription software...) would be able to just use it, one learning curve step less

Quote

Besides that some users may actually prefer/find the modifiers way more direct/intuitive.

I think you don't have to remove or change the current behavior. Just add the mouse selection gesture on top of existing method. Again, the modifiers are not documented anyway so not sure many people use them. The Ctrl-drag on Mac is easy to get by but the mouse right-click on windows, few will stumble upon, me think.

Hope you can consider this anyway, I'll do with the right-click workaround.

Cheers
 

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, Yannick Gaultier said:

I assume the CTRL modifier on Mac is because there's no right button there.

It’s rather the other way around. Mac keyboards have a Command (⌘) key that Windows keyboards don’t have, so on Windows we use the Ctrl key instead. Macs also have a Ctrl (^) key which behaves differently from the Windows one, so we need a different way to invoke the functionality — currently implemented as the awkward RMB+LMB thing.

1 hour ago, PaulEC said:

Obviously "Ctrl", "Shift" and "Alt",  but what about "AltGr"?

It can be used for shortcuts, couldn't it be used as a modifier?

 

44 minutes ago, MEB said:

I will check about the possibility to use AltGr.

AltGr is equivalent to Ctrl+Alt on a standard UK Windows keyboard.

[Yannick Gaultier]

Hi @Alfred
 

Quote

Macs also have a Ctrl (^) key which behaves differently from the Windows one, so we need a different way to invoke to functionality — currently implemented as the awkward RMB+LMB thing.

Can you clarify something though: I am aware of the usual modifiers for mouse clicks such as Ctrl/Cmd-clicks to select/deselect individual objects or Shift-click to select/deselect a range of object but I am not aware of any mouse gesture modifiers such as Ctrl-drag or Shift-drag. Are there any? Is there a place I could go to and see the list of shortcuts and modifiers that AD actually has?

NB: Just found out that Corel Draw uses the Alt key modifier to toggle between full/partial selection. Still this requires reaching out for the keyboard instead of just using the mouse as in Illustrator/Krita and probably others

Best regards

 

[Yannick Gaultier]

Also, let me revert my previous comment about the Right-click button trick not being in the help file. It is actually there, I just did not see it! It's not in the video tutorial on selecting objects though.

Cheers

 

[Alfred]

4 minutes ago, Yannick Gaultier said:

Hi @Alfred
 

Can you clarify something though: I am aware of the usual modifiers for mouse clicks such as Ctrl/Cmd-clicks to select/deselect individual objects or Shift-click to select/deselect a range of object but I am not aware of any mouse gesture modifiers such as Ctrl-drag or Shift-drag. Are there any? Is there a place I could go to and see the list of shortcuts and modifiers that AD actually has?

NB: Just found out that Corel Draw uses the Alt key modifier to toggle between full/partial selection. Still this requires reaching out for the keyboard instead of just using the mouse as in Illustrator/Krita and probably others

Best regards

 

 

Just now, Yannick Gaultier said:

Also, let me revert my previous comment about the Right-click button trick not being in the help file. It is actually there, I just did not see it! It's not in the video tutorial on selecting objects though.

Cheers

 

I’m not sure whether you’re saying you no longer need clarification about the use of the RMB or keyboard modifiers.

[Yannick Gaultier]

1 - I still need the clarification about why there is "competition" on modifiers key for selection when dragging the mouse around objects while I only know about modifiers for clicks, not dragging the mouse.

2 - The Help file correction was in reference to the fact I previously stated that help file and video tuts did not mention the right-click workaround while in fact I was wrong and the Help file does mention it

Cheers

[Alfred]

1 - I’m not sure I’m well placed to provide that!

2 - Thanks. For what it’s worth, I agree with your implied suggestion that the video tutorial should cover this point.

[PaulEC]

19 minutes ago, Alfred said:

AltGr is equivalent to Ctrl+Alt on a standard UK Windows keyboard.

But Windows does seem to recognize AltGr as a different key input to Ctrl+Alt. If you set up a keyboard shortcut using AltGr, it won't work with Ctrl+Alt instead. (At least in Affinity apps, I haven't tried it elsewhere.)

 As an example, if you want to type a euro symbol in APub, you can use AltGr+4, but Ctrl+Alt+4 doesn't do the same!

[Yannick Gaultier]

3 minutes ago, Alfred said:

1 - I’m not sure I’m well placed to provide that!

2 - Thanks. For what it’s worth, I agree with your implied suggestion that the video tutorial should cover this point.

Thanks for the discussion! Still feel what can probably be considered industry-standard mouse-selection-direction toggle would be beneficial to AD both in usability and to facilitate Illustrator users onboarding.

I'll leave it with you guys now and instead go and buy Affinity Publisher

Cheers

[Alfred]

Just now, Yannick Gaultier said:

I'll leave it with you guys now and instead go and buy Affinity Publisher 

Just as a point of information, I’m not a Serif employee, so I don’t really qualify as one of “you guys” in this context.

[Yannick Gaultier]

Just now, Alfred said:

Just as a point of information, I’m not a Serif employee, so I don’t really qualify as one of “you guys” in this context.

You're right, sorry for the confusion. I guess I'll then leave it to @MEB then

 

[fde101]

3 hours ago, Yannick Gaultier said:

but the mouse right-click on windows, few will stumble upon, me think

As a side note, this technique is called mouse chording and was a primary way of interacting with some software in the Plan 9 operating system, and Wikipedia lists a number of other applications and platforms that have made use of it to varying degrees:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_chording

[Alfred]

31 minutes ago, fde101 said:

the Plan 9 operating system

Is that the one from outer space?

[fde101]

5 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Is that the one from outer space?

Yes, evidently the people who created the OS (Bell Labs, as a successor to UNIX) were fans of the movie.

[tropilio]

I agree that having the possibility to set a key modifier to switch between the two behaviors would be very comfortable, especially for Windows users using a touchpad with no physical buttons (like me...).