Photo changes after export to jpg

[HickW]

I was hoping that this might be a quick fix like some little thing I have to change but after reading through the forum I don't have my hopes up.  First, I love Affinity Photo.  However; I can't use it unless I can find out why my photos are totally changing when I export them to a jpg.  I'll try to be brief...

The settings are all still pretty much default.  I run Affinity on my desktop and a laptop (Windows)  

What it's doing is:  I'll have a beautiful image in affinity and then export it to a jpg and wham!  It's darker, less sharp, contrastier (not a word), and so on...  It is just not converting what I see in Affinity correctly.  I've tried doing different things such as, one time I'll tweak some raw settings and the next time I'll just click develop.  I'll put in different settings such as curves one time and then try it without.  Same with a whole bunch of different settings and it doesn't seem to matter.

Is there by any chance a simple setting I need to check?  I've also tried this on two different PC's, a laptop, and my desktop and both do the same thing.  It also doesn't matter what program I use to open it after it's exported, it even looks different when I open the jpg in Affinity.

I'd post a pic but don't really think that would help, you would just see what I've described.  (o:

[Lefteyeshooter]

11 hours ago, HickW said:

I'd post a pic but don't really think that would help, you would just see what I've described.  (o:

If you post a screenshot form AF here, and then also the jpg, we should be able to see what you see, right?

Perhaps you are exporting while the adjustment layers are turned off?

[v_kyr]

Also make sure the right color profiles are constantly used and embedded in JPGs when exporting, check for those too etc.

[HickW]

Thank you very much v_kyr!  I believe I found it with "Adobe RGB (1998)"  I will admit that I don't really understand what is going on here, but I guess I better start to find out.  I'm not really into anything other than developing my photos to get them looking as good as possible without tweaking things to the point of being fake, but it looks like I better know a little bit more about how I'm doing that!

Thanks again!

Thank you also for the reply Ivan

[HickW]

Well, I spoke too soon...  Went back to work and the very next photo I worked with didn't export correctly.  Maybe I'm not understanding what is meant by "the right color profiles are constantly used and embedded in JPGs when exporting".  If I'm in the right place in the export settings then I've tried every one of them.  

If I could trouble someone to explain to me what is going on when I export to a jpg, that might help.  At this point, I have to be honest and say that I am more than amazed that there is not a simple way for me (or Affinity) to say "hey, export this photo I see in front of me and make it look exactly the same as I see here".  I've been using After Shot pro and Paint Shop pro for years and never had the export come out different than what I see in the editor.  I 'maybe' could see if I'm saving the Affinity file on one PC and then taking it to another one and exporting it, but to have it come out totally different on the same machine makes no sense.

I probably shouldn't include this, but I don't think it's doing it to every photo, it seems to be random, which is of course very puzzling because they're coming from the same camera and I'm not changing any settings between pics.

 

 

[walt.farrell]

It would help if you could provide a screenshot from Affinity Photo of your Photo window while you have the View tool (Hand) selected, including the context toolbar, and a screenshot of the Export dialog showing all the export settings. Also, if you can reproduce the problem on a non-proprietary photo, a sample .afphoto file and the sample exported .jpg file would help.

It would also help to know what application you're using to view the exported photo that is showing the color difference.

You mention not having had this problem with other applications. The Affinity applications do more color management than many other applications, and depend on you having the proper color profile specified for your monitor, too. Having the incorrect profile specified for your photo or for your monitor can cause problems such as you describe.

[R C-R]

On 10/12/2018 at 5:39 PM, HickW said:

I've tried doing different things such as, one time I'll tweak some raw settings and the next time I'll just click develop. 

So from this can we assume you are working with RAW format images from a camera? If so, what camera (make & model) are you using? There are dozens of different RAW formats & more are being added all the time. Affinity Photo does not support all of them, so that could be the source of some of your problems.

[HickW]

R C-R, you just triggered a memory (whether this is it or not).  I was playing with my settings while reading an article not too long ago and just went back in to verify...  I had switched my 'color space' from sRGB to Adobe RGB.  I did this on my D7100.  I was also carrying a D3200 with me this past week which I've never changed the color settings on (if you even can on that model) and I do not believe I'm seeing a problem with them changing on export!  So long story short, I've changed the setting back to sRGB and will take some shots today and we'll do a little testing.

Thanks much.

Walt, I tried to upload some pics but kept getting an error message.  I'll try again tonight.  Hopefully; I won't need to if this change/test goes well.   

[HickW]

Just read this and it's giving me hope:

SRGB vs Adobe RGB

RGB (Red, Green, and Blue) is the color space that encompasses all the visible colors. But it is not possible or reasonable to include all of them into a digital representation. Because of this, alternative color spaces like SRGB, which stands for Standard RGB, and Adobe RGB were created. Both color spaces can represent up to 16 million colors. But the main difference between the two is what colors they cover. SRGB was created first and only covered a fraction of the entire RGB range. Adobe RGB, which came later, covered a little bit more of the RGB color space in the shades of green.

The increase in the number of colors that Adobe RGB has given is a much wider color gamut. But since it can only contain a fixed number of colors, some of the colors come at the expense of others. So if a color had a specific number of shades in SRGB, it would have fewer shades in Adobe RGB.

Because SRGB was created first, the majority of the computer monitors and printers are optimized for that color space and not Adobe RGB. You should take note of this if you just want to print photos in your typical printer or you want to upload photos online. Using Adobe RGB in these scenarios would only make your pictures look worse. The colors on the monitor or paper would look duller or washed out due to their non-identical nature. This is because most computers and printers only recognize SRGB and treat the file as such and not as Adobe RGB.

Read more: Difference Between SRGB and Adobe RGB | Difference Between http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-srgb-and-adobe-rgb/#ixzz5U5b4lLKr

[v_kyr]

Adobe RGB has a wider gamut than sRGB, it's often used as an alternative settable color profile in DSLRs and for image editing in PS etc.

The common default used color profile used in OS'es and for visable devices like monitors/screens is usually sRGB, since plain monitors are physically/technically not able to show up a higher color gamut (a wider color spectrum of much more colors). In order to make a visable use out of more colors, a device like a monitor must be build to support higher color gamuts. However, the common deminator for a bunch of devices is the lower color spectrum sRGB color profile here, which of course can't show up all the possible colors of Adobe RGB. So sRGB maps to a subset of colors of what Adobe RGB can deal with, so to say only the possible nearest color values in a smaller gamut, which in turn is often visable if you compare an image with both gamuts side by side on a higher grade monitor which can show up nearly the whole color spectrum of Adobe RGB.

Thus I said above, check if the images do use the right embedded color profiles in your exported JPGs.

[R C-R]

46 minutes ago, HickW said:

Just read this and it's giving me hope:

You might also find the various Cambridge in Colour tutorials of interest, particularly the Color Management & Printing ones & some of the Concepts & Terminology ones, although IMO reading everything in all six tutorial categories are well worth the time it takes to go through them all. There is very little related to digital photography they don't cover in some depth, & it is all written in an easy to understand style with plenty of examples & cross-links.

[Chris26]

Have a look at Northlight Images, an excellent resource and the best turorials on the web I think with regards to colour management.  Also download one of his test prints, they are standard test prints used by hundreds of photographers, every possible shade and every possile colour is there for you to compare with your screen.  If you are serious about your photography then aquainting yourself with the colour management workflow is an absolute must, and it is really straight forward but give it time to sink in as you read.

As for your image, there is far too much missing from your post for me to provide an accurate answer for you.  But initially alarm bells went when you said exporting to jpeg.  Jpeg is a format to be avoided 'if' possible, it is always better to export to Tiff if you can.  Jpeg will immediately compress  your image and throw away pixels and information.  In most average cases this lends to no loss of visible quality, but everything really depends on how the image was edited in a photo software, jpegs being edited quite roughly will be destroyed, not on the screen but you will see the effects at print.  A very good jpeg shot will not.  If you are bringing in from RAW then you have two distinct advantages, RAW has absolutely no colour profile, this is one advantage, you simply assign it a profile. In your case Adobe rgb1998 or sRGB, alsoy ou can edit the raw in any way possible without the loss or destruction of a single pixel. 

There is also a matter of aesthetic sharpening and then a second sharpening for print, the two are not the same.  Basically aesthetic sharpening is the visble appealing side, but in many printers you will need to apply a gentle sharpening that compensates for a specific printer.  Unless I can see two images, one on your screen, and one from a print, and then look at your workflow I can not provide accurate information.  Laptops are too bright, if you do not have colour calibration software for your screen I suggest you definitely make the screen much much darker, most laptops come with a very rudimentary colour calibrate that you can adjust, it is really rock bottom, but you could bring its luminance down.  

The sharpen business I covered , now the contrasts, contrastier images smacks to me of Compression.  Assuming that you did not adjust the contrast.  Also it could be simply that you started with a brilliant image and edited it poorly or over-compensated for something you saw on the screen?  Please get two test prints from Northlight, one is the black and white and one is the colour, both made in adobe 1998 profile. Print them out noting all your settings and do not alter the image, now compare with screen. Unless you have an 8 colour printer or above  there is generally speaking, no visible advantage to you working in the adobe RGB1998 profile.  Others may disagree.  Biut Adobe RGB 1998 has its own short falls, but that is another topic.

Another important issue here is the PPI and the Pixel dimensions of your imported image, have you re-sizedit in any way? if you scaled down with bicubic, then sharpened for example, that is a recipe for disaster.  Do you leave ALL sharpening and colour adjustments to the very end?  Do you size the image to exactly as you want, then edit?  These two methods  need to be adopted as routine in your workflow, as I said more information from you would help others to offer targeted advice.  I hope something here is at least partially helpful..

[HickW]

Evidently I backed out of my post here before I submitted it.

Let me just say WOW, I am amazed and appreciate the responses here!!  I can see I have a lot to learn and will take the suggestions and start right away.

I was going to leave it at that, but then I went in and tried something and now want to keep this going in case it not only helps me, but others in the future.  So, as long as anyone else is interested, I will continue to post some tests and results.  I hope to post a screenshot of a photo open in Affinity, a save of that shot, and a tiff and/or jpg tonight.

In the meantime, I can say that I have done some quick experimenting and exported a photo as I worked my way through it (both tiff and jpg), and while it still starts out darker, the biggest change is when I add something like 'curves' or 'vibrancy'.  Things such as 'levels' or 'brightness' do very little.  So I'm guessing it's pretty much related to a 'color' issue.  Duh, right.

 

[Chris26]

May I now say in view of what you just mentioned, use curves sparingly, to avoid adjusting colours when you use curves, set then that curve layer blend mode drop down menu to 'Luminosity', then you only alter the darkness and light values WITHOUT making any alterations to colour at all. Just a quick tip.  Another option here when wanting to adjust contrats, and there are many, but this is an easy one,  Duplicate that image in the layers.  Find a 'High Pass' and apply it to the image, then set the blend mode to overlay or soft light and adjust opacity to taste.  These are non destructive ways to apply contrast and keep colour values from altering in any way and also you retain the ability to alter the image if it is not to your liking after a first print.  I of course am assuming that these functions are avaiable in the software you use, but hopefully in Affinity photo

Chris

[HickW]

2 hours ago, Chris26 said:

May I now say in view of what you just mentioned, use curves sparingly, to avoid adjusting colours when you use curves, set then that curve layer blend mode drop down menu to 'Luminosity', then you only alter the darkness and light values WITHOUT making any alterations to colour at all. Just a quick tip.  Another option here when wanting to adjust contrats, and there are many, but this is an easy one,  Duplicate that image in the layers.  Find a 'High Pass' and apply it to the image, then set the blend mode to overlay or soft light and adjust opacity to taste.  These are non destructive ways to apply contrast and keep colour values from altering in any way and also you retain the ability to alter the image if it is not to your liking after a first print.  I of course am assuming that these functions are avaiable in the software you use, but hopefully in Affinity photo

Chris

Chris, when are you coming out with your 'pay' lessons, I'm in!  For what it's worth, I'm going to see if it will let me upload some images now, however, reading what you're saying, I just need to get to work and learn more!  I can see there's a lot more that just adjusting what I want, when I want, and expect it to come out like I see in the workspace.  Interesting, the JPG wouldn't upload, I guess they really are junk!  (o:

DSC_5261_Only_RAW_adjusts.tiff

DSC_5261.afphoto

DSC_5261.tiff

[lepr]

.

[Chris26]

Ok, I already see a number of issues that need attention.  But firstly when I loaded the image into affinity publisher I received this message (first Screen shot), not quite sure what it means though.  I took the tiff and the raw into photoshop.  Compared them side by side at 100%, clealy a differnce and not bad on screen but colour saturation was visible even at 50%.and at 100% I couldsee colour artifacting.  However at 200% the raw was fine, but the tiff was full of colour problems and there was a breakdown of pixel integrity as a result of over use of the saturation, or curves or sharpening.  All this confirmed my suspicions that you are employing too many adjustments at once and destroying your image.  I then loaded the affinty image and yes, there I see, unsharp mask, brightness and curves, you have literally TRIPLED the same effect and which has led to a pixel breakdown and colour artifacting while partially invisible at 100% is clealy visible at 200% and this will be translated data sent to a printer and affect output quality.  These are my first impressions.  One other thing I did not understand was the resource manager in affinity did not pick up on this image.  I saw in Photoshop that you have a 300PPi at 6000 pixels long side roughly, you have an excellent image, top notch, but you have destroyed its potential.  You need to learn to use non-destructive editing and begin by grasping fully the issues I mentioned earlier in a workflow,  I say all this kindly and only to help you, I too was a beginner once and know howit felt by the dazzling array of editing tools we have at our disposal.  Kindest regards, Chris

 

.

 

[HickW]

15 minutes ago, Chris26 said:

I say all this kindly and only to help you

Chris, no need to make sure I understand your intentions, you have not only blown my mind, but you have shown me exactly what I need to see/hear!  If not for you, I may have spent who knows how long trying to figure all of this out, AND I've already been doing it for some time now (what a waste).  I have already taken some lessons on editing and Affinity and it looks like I am either totally brain dead or I found the wrong sources.  You have given me some very good direction and I can't thank you enough.  If you know of any other sources of knowledge (free or pay) please pass along, and again, thank you!

Wes

[Chris26]

Hallo Hick,  I have scanned in some random pages from a book I uploaded in PDF, it is only 4.5Mb so easy download.  I Highly recommend this book for a couple of reasons:

It's called:  The Creative Digital Darkroom by Katrin Eismann and Sean Duggan, I have 2007 edition.

1.  Most Photoshop tutorial books are photoshop specific, they tell you what to do and how to do it and what buttons to press, what we need is to UNDERSTAND what we are doing and why we need to do it and When not to do it.  This is not always obvious from youtube and other sources of so called tutorials, there is more confusion out there than clarity For a Beginner, as you become more knowledgeable you will be able to target google precisly and thereby save yourself hours of fruitless video watching.

2. This book is not photoshop specific, but it is based on everything you will find in photoshop to do with editing an image. And therfore is suitable for anyone doing any sort of editing in any software.  It covers everything from colour management policy to complex editing with all the basic stuff in between. You can simply pick a chapter and read, you do not need to start at page 1. Also more importantly, it is a book that will not go out of date in the foreseeable future.

3. It lays foundations, is not information overload and will give you a brilliant grounding in areas a lot of tutorials never mentiont (exception is Linda .com)

Lastly ,my two-penneth, KEEP AWAY from brightnes-contrast slider, never use it, it is a legacy panel, and it is like using an elephant to peel aan apple.  You never ever need to use it. There are much more efficient ways to brighten and to do contrast than that monstrocity, it is a like throwing a stick of dynamite into a lake to catch the right fish.  Curves, Luminosity masks, high pass filter, and yes even unsharp mask can be used to increase contrast without sharpening.  I hope you enjoy your journey in all this.

Chris

PS, getting fed up with windows here, I uploaded an adobe acrobat file, but now you see foxit pdf simply because i transfer everything from my mac to this plaything they call a computer.  Excuse my language but this Bl%!%dy terrible, it should not be .exe, when it is pdf.  I have just tested it by downloading it myself and everything went ok, another case of  windows taking over.....

 

FoxitReaderPortable.exe

[HickW]

Thank you once again Chris, my book arrives tomorrow!  Don't worry about it but the file didn't work, you have done more than enough for me!!  I was in the IT field for over 8 years working with Windows and I still use Windows, and yes, I still hate Windows!  But what the heck, Bill got rich.  (o:  

I am also copying and pasting everything you've said for a reference (can't remember it all), don't worry, I won't sell it.  Ha ha.

By the way, the message you got "first Screen shot", I've never seen that before.  Interesting.  I just opened it back up myself to see if I got the same message and I got a different one... "Open recovery file?"  I don't get it because nothing went wrong when I saved it.

If you don't mind, I would be interested in one final thing...  Where are you from/live?  That seems to be the one thing I'm always interested in with people I've met and/or talked with.

 

[Lefteyeshooter]

14 hours ago, Chris26 said:

Ok, I already see a number of issues that need attention.  But firstly when I loaded the image into affinity publisher I received this message (first Screen shot), not quite sure what it means though.

 

You are using a beta version of Affinity. Some features may not be present in the official version. Adding changes to the file using beta software may render the file corrupt when trying to open it in the official release version.

[Lefteyeshooter]

15 hours ago, HickW said:

  Interesting, the JPG wouldn't upload, I guess they really are junk!  (o:

 

If this forum doesn't accept your jpgs, this may be an indication that there is something wrong with these files. Have you exported them with a preset within AF or did you use some alternative (read: faulty) method?

[Chris26]

From a land where passing cars still stop and chat on the road and people still wait until the conversation is over, where sheep  are often found wandering along some roads, where painted words on roads for instructions are ALWAYS written backwards, I mean that, where sign posts say 4 km to such and such a place and then you travel two Km only to see another sign 4 Km again.  and where an absence of bureaucracy is a delight.  

[Chris26]

2 hours ago, HickW said:

Don't worry about it but the file didn't work

Yeah, that is annoying.  I uploaded it directly from my USB where it was saved in photoshop to adobe acrobat.  Coming then through the  windows internet to upload to affinity - How the hell foxit grabbed its paws over it beats me.  

[HickW]

7 hours ago, Chris26 said:

From a land where passing cars still stop and chat on the road and people still wait until the conversation is over, where sheep  are often found wandering along some roads, where painted words on roads for instructions are ALWAYS written backwards, I mean that, where sign posts say 4 km to such and such a place and then you travel two Km only to see another sign 4 Km again.  and where an absence of bureaucracy is a delight.  

I'll take that in a heartbeat!  Hmm...  Friendly, caring, sheep, backward words on the roads, and no idiots-I mean bureaucracy...  Maybe Scotland, NZ...  Just sounds perfect!